273 réponses à ce sujet

[x-president]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Does haste increase attack speed in shifted forms?

It should as long as another mage casts it.  You can't cast it, then shapeshift.  You'll loose the spell.

[x-president]

Branka and Behlen can be Overwhelmed at full health.

I was able to immiiedately drop Branka when she first attacked with Bear.  I took close to 1/4 health form her in a single hit.  Overwhlem has become very effect in the Boss fights.

The Bosses in the Deep Roads can be dropped as well.


I have Overwhelmed Bosses with Spider too but I don't think they do as much dmg.  

[Mr_Raider]

Does the effectiveness of overwhelm depend on your strength? That would a str heavy build more interesting than a magic heavy build.

[Knal1991]

I think it does, as my staff increases damage and strenth and can kill most yellow characters immediatly...

[x-president]

I'm not really sure, but I have very high strength.  My base strength lvl is 50 with boosts I think around 55.  My spellscore is low 50s as well.

I've never had the chance to really test this with low strength becasue you get Overwhelm so late that strength is usuall pretty good.  I guess I could load a previous character and try it out.  I have some boss areas saved.


Kogrim can also be overwhelmed at full strength. 

[daddytat]

x-president wrote...


How and where can the dog fetch a staff?  I never knew that.  I'm in Circle Tower now have I passed it?

The only staff I know of that dog can fetch for you is one of the random gifts he finds. Its called "a piece of wood" and he has found it twice in Denerim for me. I know of know other staff that he finds.

[x-president]

daddytat wrote...

x-president wrote...


How and where can the dog fetch a staff?  I never knew that.  I'm in Circle Tower now have I passed it?

The only staff I know of that dog can fetch for you is one of the random gifts he finds. Its called "a piece of wood" and he has found it twice in Denerim for me. I know of know other staff that he finds.

He found that for me in Redcliffe Village.

I tried it the other day by the Landmark tree on top of the hill and got it.

[soteria]

Cauthrien can also be overwhelmed--there's no "save" for it--but her archer buddies will usually scattershot, interrupting the effect.

Modifié par soteria, 08 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[x-president]

Mad Hermit can be dropped with Overwhelm.  I mauled about 50% of his health away.  The he turned me into a giant Bear popsicle.


Video:

www.wegame.com/watch/mad-hermit-vs-bear/


***I'll add this to the OP as well and I'm gonna add add some to Spell Tips.

[RDeLove]

x-president wrote...

daddytat wrote...

x-president wrote...


How and where can the dog fetch a staff?  I never knew that.  I'm in Circle Tower now have I passed it?

The only staff I know of that dog can fetch for you is one of the random gifts he finds. Its called "a piece of wood" and he has found it twice in Denerim for me. I know of know other staff that he finds.

He found that for me in Redcliffe Village.

I tried it the other day by the Landmark tree on top of the hill and got it.

Sweet , thats the one I was talking about.   He always finds it in
Lothering for me.

[High Magus]

So, does spamming Overwhelm increase your attack speed? It kind of looked like it from that video against the Revenant.

Same deal as 2h then if it does, though bear has a much faster attack speed to cancel off of.

The Revenant fight is the first vid where I've actually thought that Shapeshifting might be worth it over a caster. Your bear owned that Revenant way better than my mage.

Although, my mage is cold spec'ed.

[TBastian]

Even a magic-heavy Shapeshifter build can take on a Revenant and win, you know. Just unload all your DoT's and other nukes before shifting. All the other specializations use magic in some way. That the Shapeshifter is the only specialization that can invest purely on magic without any ill effect says a lot about how dependent it should be on its spells. Normally, anyway. What's unique is a Shapeshifter that's actually fighting bosses toe-to-toe while remaining in Bear/Spider form all the time - this build. Very impressive. And those damage numbers are shocking.

The Bereskarn has better attack speed than the ordinary bear, probably what you noticed.

Modifié par TBastian, 09 février 2010 - 02:00 .

[x-president]

I think I get what your saying about the Overwhelm.  I don't think I was causing dmg.  I kept hitting to see if it would engage and it kinda looks like I'm striking fast, but I don't think I was doing any dmg.  It was defaulting back to attack, but I don't think it was any quicker.


That was my main goal on this build was to use Shapeshifting as the primary attack or weapon.  I did tweak it out differently then what I have in the OP on how I built the character.

I'm probably gonna change it when I finish my current game.  I also made another change recently.  I decided to stop adding magic points at around 35 base.  That way I can acess all spells.  My spellscore is higher with boosts from attributes and weapons.  The spellscore is currently around 50.  That is giving good dmg from spells so I'm happy with that level.

I kinda wanna push the strength limits and see what kind of dmg I can get out of my shapeshifter.  Currently I'm around 40 dmg.  Using rage and stomp I've hit number up into the 80s with Bear.  So I'm kind of interested to see how high I can get.

I'm currently in the Dalish section and I really wanna see how well I hold up going through the Elven Tombs.  I've had trouble there before because of the high nature resistant enemies. 


Hopefully I can get some good vids battling the massive amounts of skeletons they throw at you.

[Mr_Raider]

Red.Murder1 wrote...

This should help everyone understand the shifter bonusses a little better. The top spreadsheet is default DA. http://www.dragonage...-1262140708.jpg

What mod is that?

[x-president]

Another Revenant fight, but the with Skeletons.  Wynne and the Bear finished him off.

www.wegame.com/watch/revenant-skeletons-vs-bear/


- One thing I did notice, all shapeshifting forms never seem to miss, ever.  I wonder if it's because of the staff.  Staffs never miss so this may carry over to shapeshifting.  The high armor piercing rating carries over so I think thise does.  That is just one more reason why shapeshifting can be very good.

You can't beat 100% accuracy.

[Mr_Raider]

x-president wrote...

Another Revenant fight, but the with Skeletons.  Wynne and the Bear finished him off.

www.wegame.com/watch/revenant-skeletons-vs-bear/


- One thing I did notice, all shapeshifting forms never seem to miss, ever.  I wonder if it's because of the staff.  Staffs never miss so this may carry over to shapeshifting.  The high armor piercing rating carries over so I think thise does.  That is just one more reason why shapeshifting can be very good.

You can't beat 100% accuracy.

Someone put this in the wiki too. I'm not sure it's true?

You can respec your toon with low strength and see if you still hit as much, or equip a different weapon before shifting.

[beancounter501]

You may be on to something on the auto hit with a staff. In the damage script there is a check under staff damage to see if you are Shape Shifted. If you are not shape shifted it returns the normal staff attack damage, otherwise it treats your staff has an unarmed weapon(for damage). However, in the to hit script there is no shape shift check. Just the auto staff hit.



So, it should be easy to check, make ten attacks when you were holding a staff and then ten attacks holding a weapon before shifting. See if you start to miss.



On staff damage I am pretty sure strength has no bearing. The damage is straight forward at Spellpower / 4 * Projectile Damage * 1.33 (if you have Staff Mastery).

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

x-president wrote...

daddytat wrote...

x-president wrote...


How and where can the dog fetch a staff?  I never knew that.  I'm in Circle Tower now have I passed it?

The only staff I know of that dog can fetch for you is one of the random gifts he finds. Its called "a piece of wood" and he has found it twice in Denerim for me. I know of know other staff that he finds.

He found that for me in Redcliffe Village.

I tried it the other day by the Landmark tree on top of the hill and got it.

You can get the staff as a human noble by having Dog search Highever then your npc mage buddy in the tower can use it, and you'll have it for Morrigan.

beancounter501 wrote...
On staff damage I am pretty sure strength has no bearing. The damage is straight forward at Spellpower / 4 * Projectile Damage * 1.33 (if you have Staff Mastery).

That doesn't sound right, my current mage has 116 spellpower and deals 45.4 staff damage.

Modifié par AlgolagniaVolcae, 09 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[x-president]

beancounter501 wrote...

On staff damage I am pretty sure strength has no bearing. The damage is straight forward at Spellpower / 4 * Projectile Damage * 1.33 (if you have Staff Mastery).

Yea, strength doesn't effect the damage of the staff in human form.  Strength does effect the dmg of any shapeshifting form if you are above the spellscore boost.


I'll test the accuracy.  I can use any weapon so I'll try it with the staff, without the staff, and with another weapon.

[x-president]

It's Correct!


It tested with staff, barefists, & with Maric's Sword.  (10 strikes each)

Staff - Never Missed
Barefists - Missed
Maric's Swaord - Missed


- So with staffs equiped, you'll never miss in shapeshifting form.  I only tested with Bear, but I would assume it would be the same with any other form.

Also I checked my "hit rate" and it's currently at 98%.

[Mr_Raider]

So the only true point in increasing strength is to increase damage. This makes an all magic build somwhat attractive.

[x-president]

Mr_Raider wrote...

So the only true point in increasing strength is to increase damage. This makes an all magic build somwhat attractive.

Yes and increases physical resistance.  For bear and spider both are very important.  Imo you won't have a strong enough Bear or Spider without a higher strength.

The boost from spellscore just doesn't give it enough.  Any other attribute should be fine.

[TBastian]

The point is a heavy magic build has always been viable for the Shapeshifter, because that's how Shapeshifter is supposed to be built. It's the only specialization that relies exclusively on spellpower, and thus the magic attribute.
But so far I've never seen my pure magic build do that much damage as a bear or spider. With spells, yes I have, but not that much damage on just one target is so short a time - and the damage type is physical, on top of everything. With spell combos and Mana Clash, yes, but those don't usually work against bosses.
With my Shapeshifter the best damage I can do is only around the 20's, although it's consistent on everything.

Modifié par TBastian, 10 février 2010 - 05:05 .

[x-president]

My last dmg check on the Bear, I averaged upper 40s to low 50s on pretty much every swipe.  Also using Stomp I have peaked in the low 90s hitting skeletons.


No matter what you still need that good spellscore becasue it helps your dex and con scores.  I would say 50+.  I am using more boosts from weapons and gear to achieve that leaving more points to spare in strength.

[x-president]

**** Updated ****


- OP has been updated, additions to Character build.  I now have 3 different build types depending how you wanna play.

- Also some editing changes and changes made to gear tips on weapon selection.