286 réponses à ce sujet

[New Kid]

I would be more inclined to make it if it wasn't retconned in Awakening, it just makes it feel wrong.

[wcholcombe]

Well, my canon Warden lived, she got Alistair to do the ritual. Felt kinda bad about all the stuff she made Alistair do over the course of the game, but...better than being dead at least. I think my Warden was the 'Only an idiot doesn't fear death.' type - the option was there, Morrigan was basically her sister and it's what she wanted...so, live another day.

See mine was the opposite lol. Would much rather make a noble sacrifice then trust Morrigan with an OGB.

 

And this is why the warden will not show up in DAI.  DW can't win with the personality differences that there is no way to account for.  What if your character hated morrigan but did the DR because they didn't want to die. Then because you said you DR, Morrigan and warden are chummy in DAI.......

[wcholcombe]

I would be more inclined to make it if it wasn't retconned in Awakening, it just makes it feel wrong.

How is it retconned in awakening?  You have the option to not reincarnate your warden and play as the Orlesian Commander.

[Revan Reborn]

See mine was the opposite lol. Would much rather make a noble sacrifice then trust Morrigan with an OGB.

 

And this is why the warden will not show up in DAI.  DW can't win with the personality differences that there is no way to account for.  What if your character hated morrigan but did the DR because they didn't want to die. Then because you said you DR, Morrigan and warden are chummy in DAI.......

Again, BioWare wrote the choices and dialogue for the Warden in DAO. Those choices were based on general personalities they wanted that response to have. I don't believe it would be much trouble at all for them to create different personalities based on your choices.

 

As I stated in the other thread, Morrigan didn't become friendly towards you because of the DR. She merely offered it to gain something from you while you would retain your life. It was a mutual partnership, nothing more, unless of course you romanced her previously.

 

While some argue that's it's only "right" if the Warden makes the ultimate sacrifice and dies, I don't really see the strength of that argument. You can make the argument that you don't trust Morrigan with an OGB, but we really have no idea what that means or what significance it will have (maybe we'll find out in DAI). On the contrary, I would argue the Warden would want to live for the simple fact of rebuilding the Grey Wardens. With Duncan dead and Alistair crowned king in my playthrough, someone has to keep the wardens going for the future. There are more Old Gods to be found and as such the Grey Wardens are always needed. I would find it irresponsible to just leave Ferelden in shambles until the next Archdemon comes around.

[Captain Obvious]

I went through the Dark Ritual be I wanted to keep Loghain alive.

 

(Proud that I got rid of that whiny ****** Alistair).

[Terraforming2154]

My main warden died -- it was actually my favorite ending for her.

I hated that the import was so botched for Awakening though...

[Johun]

While some argue that's it's only "right" if the Warden makes the ultimate sacrifice and dies, I don't really see the strength of that argument. You can make the argument that you don't trust Morrigan with an OGB, but we really have no idea what that means or what significance it will have (maybe we'll find out in DAI). On the contrary, I would argue the Warden would want to live for the simple fact of rebuilding the Grey Wardens. With Duncan dead and Alistair crowned king in my playthrough, someone has to keep the wardens going for the future. There are more Old Gods to be found and as such the Grey Wardens are always needed. I would find it irresponsible to just leave Ferelden in shambles until the next Archdemon comes around.

You're not wrong that Ferelden could benefit from a strong Warden-Commander. If you feel like your Warden's continued survival and leadership are vital, the game makes sure there is always one other Warden in your party to take the blow. The achievement for letting Alistair sacrifice himself is even named "Warden-Commander".

The Dark Ritual is extremely irresponsible and selfish. Rather than end the threat of Urthemiel once and for all, you let it survive simply to preserve your own life, trusting to Morrigan it won't be corrupted again. If you refuse Morrigan once, she will try to convince you. Her speech is a textbook appeal to selfishness and pride.

[Meltemph]

How is it retconned in awakening?  You have the option to not reincarnate your warden and play as the Orlesian Commander.

I think it's the fact taht your choices dont carry over from DAO to DA:A and then by extension DA2. It was a problem. DA Keep though fixes that, which is quite nice.

[Coverage]

The US is the better story, it just is. The heroic gray warden giving up their life to destroy the ultimate evil and save the land. I love the idea behind it.

 

I just couldn't do it for my main warden though. I did the Dark ritual because I really wanted him to continue into Awakening and lead the rebuilding of the wardens and all that stuff.

 

Plus, I'd feel like I'd be missing out on something big in the future If I didn't do the ritual. AND I just like the idea of my warden continuing his life and doing whatever he does outside of the games scope.

 

I guess I can chalk it up to my warden being human and flawed instead of the stereotypical self-sacrificing hero.

[The Loyal Nub]

Mine accepted the ritual because, despite the often bizarrely selfish bluster of Morrigan, my Warden always felt she was not a bad sort beneath it all. I also played my Warden as having fallen for her and I tried to imagine how someone who'd just lost their whole family might also react. You would not want to die and you would not want to lose your new family either. People can be, in real-life, very good, generally altruistic, and also completely selfish and often all of that on the same damn day. 

 

I think Morrigan left the Warden to protect him from the choice they'd made together and to protect the world from what she had to do (I write this having not played Witch Hunt yet which means my views could change once I do play through that-probably this weekend) and I imagined the Warden finally leaving the society and disappearing because of the grief of his losses and all the awful decisions he'd had to make. He's probably deep within the Deep Roads and very tormented. That's my way of looking at it. 

 

The great thing about these games is you can play out your own narrative to an extent and you can make the wrong choices and then redeem everything the next game or go-round. It wouldn't be fun if we all plodded along the canon path or well that's just my take anyway.

[Revan Reborn]

You're not wrong that Ferelden could benefit from a strong Warden-Commander. If you feel like your Warden's continued survival and leadership are vital, the game makes sure there is always one other Warden in your party to take the blow. The achievement for letting Alistair sacrifice himself is even named "Warden-Commander".

The Dark Ritual is extremely irresponsible and selfish. Rather than end the threat of Urthemiel once and for all, you let it survive simply to preserve your own life, trusting to Morrigan it won't be corrupted again. If you refuse Morrigan once, she will try to convince you. Her speech is a textbook appeal to selfishness and pride.

Well personally I felt Alistair needed to be king based on his qualities and birthright, so really only Loghain would be an option. With respect to him, along the lines of what Alistair stated, why should he have the honor of dying as a Grey Warden and being remembered as a hero? He betrayed his king, caused the massacre of thousands including Duncan, and was taking Ferelden down a dark and irreparable path. For the sake of Duncan, the Couslands, and all those who had been wronged by Loghain, he had to feel the force of justice.

 

Who's to say Urthemiel would be gone for good even with an ultimate sacrifice? The Old Gods are beyond the understanding of mere mortals, even as Archdemons. This also largely depends on your thoughts and feelings towards Morrigan and whether you perceive her as a heroine or a villain. Is participating in the Dark Ritual irresponsible and selfish? That depends on the outcome and what Morrigan does with the OGB. Personally, I see the Architect and future Archdemons more as a threat than an apostate child who's fate is not yet determined.

 

Morrigan has at least shown that she actually does have a heart, in her own special way.

[General TSAR]

(Raises hand)

 

Screw that witch-****** and her agenda, my character would rather die a hero and save Loghain than to participate in any unholy magic banging.

[Kalas Magnus]

mine died. 

 

go out with a bang. you know. Id hate for her to end up like larius.

[Neon Rising Winter]

First character - sacrifice ending - obviously, I thought, only sensible thing to do. Possible terrible consequences otherwise, and she was a very dutiful character, so off she went to her doom.

 

Second character - on reflection, I find myself thinking, that sacrifice malarkey comes at the expense of one of the most intriguing options in the game. A reborn old god free of that darkspawn taint - yes I think that sounds like something I would like to see. Good, bad or disasterous, it's still interesting. Right then, second character will be more of a take a chance kind of person. And I found that made for a much more interesting game than the dutiful play it safe character I'd rolled with the first time round, so it stuck.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Alistair's character exists for a reason.

[Heimdall]

My Warden did the ritual because he was afraid of dying or losing his best friend (Who he just went to great trouble to crown). He never felt comfortable with it.

I do have a few playthroughs with US Wardens though.

[Cyrus Amell]

Making the Sacrifice always seemed like a waste to me. You have two perfectly viable options other than destroying a character you spent maybe 100 hours playing in the form of the Dark Ritual and having Loghain perform the sacrifice. Sure the former introduced a dangerous and unknown new element into the world and the latter helped redeem a man who did everything to screw you and the Grey Wardens, but they can both be justified depending on your Warden's outlook.

 

I had always wanted to make a City Elf who romanced Leliana and made the ultimate sacrifice (a la Garahel) but I never got around to it - and with Dragon Age Keep it looks like a decision that would have actually been punished.

[Johun]

Well personally I felt Alistair needed to be king based on his qualities and birthright, so really only Loghain would be an option. With respect to him, along the lines of what Alistair stated, why should he have the honor of dying as a Grey Warden and being remembered as a hero? He betrayed his king, caused the massacre of thousands including Duncan, and was taking Ferelden down a dark and irreparable path. For the sake of Duncan, the Couslands, and all those who had been wronged by Loghain, he had to feel the force of justice.
 
Who's to say Urthemiel would be gone for good even with an ultimate sacrifice? The Old Gods are beyond the understanding of mere mortals, even as Archdemons. This also largely depends on your thoughts and feelings towards Morrigan and whether you perceive her as a heroine or a villain. Is participating in the Dark Ritual irresponsible and selfish? That depends on the outcome and what Morrigan does with the OGB. Personally, I see the Architect and future Archdemons more as a threat than an apostate child who's fate is not yet determined.
 
Morrigan has at least shown that she actually does have a heart, in her own special way.

There are many compelling reasons to do the Dark Ritual. In most cases, it is the best way to get a "happy ending". That is precisely why it is such a heavy price to pay. It's a betrayal against the Wardens, and against the world. A Warden who does it is a fraud. Again, I am not dismissing the narrative value of the choice, the Warden tormented by their guilt to hunt down Morrigan makes for a good story.

Even if we are to believe that Morrigan has only the best intentions, I wouldn't trust anyone, no matter how powerful, to ensure that the darkspawn never find the child.

[sylvanaerie]

Personally I hate the Warden Commander/Redemption endings.  The PC gets a lovely funeral.  Alistair or Loghain get...nothing.  For Al, it's one throwaway line by Wynne about "The poor boy" and Anora asks how her father died.  Very unsatisfying endings for me. 

 

US was the only way I rolled if I didn't want to give Morrigan the OGB.

[Mercedes-Benz]

I didn't, I see no reason to needlessly sacrifice the Warden or Loghain. 

[robertmarilyn]

My male warden romanced Zevran and did the DR with Morrigan. He had Anora be Queen and he and Alistair stayed Gray Wardens with Zevran along for the fun.

 

My female warden is the one that I'm using for DAI and Alistair did the DR, she married Alistair and he's king and she's rules with him. Zevran is still around too. 

[Cylan Cooper]

If I may ask, what evidence is this based on? This panel from The Silent Grove Issue 6?

Spoiler

Let me find the passage in the library edition of the comics.

 

"In my mind, this Alistair is the one who did the Dark Ritual in Dragon Age: Origins ---and I was half tempted to have him lose his cool in this first scene with her[Yavana]." - David Gaider

 

ANYWAY

 

Yeah. Several of my wardens did the Ultimate Sacrifice. The sole reason I don't do it more is because you can't do the Awakening story with an Orlesian Warden and have your US warden's choices import. I don't get this idea that a lot of people seem to have that the Dark Ritual is the ideal ending just because everyone lives.

[Revan Reborn]

There are many compelling reasons to do the Dark Ritual. In most cases, it is the best way to get a "happy ending". That is precisely why it is such a heavy price to pay. It's a betrayal against the Wardens, and against the world. A Warden who does it is a fraud. Again, I am not dismissing the narrative value of the choice, the Warden tormented by their guilt to hunt down Morrigan makes for a good story.

Even if we are to believe that Morrigan has only the best intentions, I wouldn't trust anyone, no matter how powerful, to ensure that the darkspawn never find the child.

I wouldn't call it a "happy ending." The only potential option you could make that argument for is sacrificing Loghain, due to his previous crimes against Ferelden.

 

I don't believe the Grey Wardens ever "required" that a warden had to die killing the Archdemon. What they said was that it was inevitable as the warden would absorb the Archdemon's taint and be destroyed by it. I'm sure the Grey Wardens would have rather avoided death if at all possible to continue the fight against the Darkspawn.

 

Being a martyr is bittersweet as people remember you fondly for tragic reasons. I don't see it is at all beneficial or helpful to anyone destroying what is left of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden. Die needlessly for fear of someone that isn't your enemy or live to fight another day to prevent further evils from rising in the Deep Roads? I find the latter option more beneficial to the people of Ferelden.

[Revan Reborn]

Let me find the passage in the library edition of the comics.

 

"In my mind, this Alistair is the one who did the Dark Ritual in Dragon Age: Origins ---and I was half tempted to have him lose his cool in this first scene with her[Yavana]." - David Gaider

 

ANYWAY

 

Yeah. Several of my wardens did the Ultimate Sacrifice. The sole reason I don't do it more is because you can't do the Awakening story with an Orlesian Warden and have your US warden's choices import. I don't get this idea that a lot of people seem to have that the Dark Ritual is the ideal ending just because everyone lives.

I don't believe it's necessary "ideal." It's certainly practical from a geopolitical standpoint given the terrible state of Ferelden and the Grey Wardens. It's also quite interesting to see what future the Dark Ritual holds for the game.

 

As far as Awakening, it was rather obvious BioWare did not intend for many to choose the ultimate sacrifice. The reason I say this is because Awakening only really makes sense and works well with the Hero of Ferelden. The Orlesian Warden is a cheap placeholder for those who let their Wardens die and did not want to import, although you really put yourself at a disadvantage if you did not.

[metalfenix]

Let Loghain do it, made alistair as king and my warden live. Everyone wins.