286 réponses à ce sujet

[Doominike]

Never, I put my survival 1st

[riverbanks]

I find it interesting how so many are quick to dismiss Morrigan's offer based on their own reservations or suspicions of her intent. Based on her actual character and her actions in Witch Hunt, (etc....)

 

What I find interesting is that ritual players always assume that making the sacrifice implies a player bias against Morrigan and quickly dismiss it as a personal slight against her. It never occurrs to them that roleplaying is a thing that people do.

 

My Wardens do not have the same meta knowlege of old gods and archdemons and darkspawn etc etc that I do as the omniscient player. Nor do they have psychic powers to know what Morrigan may or may not do or say three years in the future. They have no way to know any of that, so none of those things may factor into their decision. You can like the whole of Morrigan's character as a player all you want, but given only the context of what my characters knew of the situation at hand at the time, they had no reason to trust her after she put her offer forward and revealed that this had been her ultimate goal the whole time. What I know of the whole story and what my characters know of the moment they are living are completely different things - that's roleplaying, and it has nothing to do with your personal meta feelings about this or that.

 

I find the Dark Ritual, in any case, a very interesting and enticing offer. Not because it allows the Warden to be selfish and live, but rather allowing him the ability to continue his duty as a Grey Warden and to help the efforts in rebuilding Ferelden for future attacks. The OGB is an interesting curve ball that should provide a compelling story.

 

Okay, but the title of your thread is "Who actually made the Ultimate Sacrifice in DAO?" so I assumed you wanted to know who had done the sacrifice and why; not that you wanted to expose on how interesting you think the ritual is My bad for mistaking the intent of the thread, but weird question to ask if you actually want to talk about the opposite topic.

 

Anyway, answering the question, I did the sacrifice with my characters, multiple times, and those were my roleplaying reasons. I will continue to not make the dark ritual, unless one of my future characters turns out weird enough to want that, both because I have no meta-game interest in the OGB as a plot device who will never go anywhere and will probably be swept away under a sidequest of little long-term relevance at some point (because the world can't afford to break into two alternate realities); and because so far I haven't found it coherent with my characters' views from a roleplaying angle, and their own decisions as characters are ultimately what matter to me more than my own opinions as a player. Them's the breaks.

[Ceoldoren]

My female Tabris did TUS. She was in a romance with Leliana, I just thought there was so much tragic beauty in it.

[Revan Reborn]

The problem is that the Dark Ritual's consequences are, ostensibly, entirely unknown.  You have no idea that you will actually survive the final battle (you could die before you even get to the archdemon afterall), you do not know for sure it will work, you do not know what Morrigan's ultimate plans are, you do not why Flemeth wanted you to do this in the first place (which Morrigan implies is the case), you do not know what the soul of an Old God is like (they might be evil and clever on their own), you have no way of guaranteeing the OGB doesn't pull a Morrigan and rebel against her (thus Morrigan having a heart is irrelevant), and you have no way of really understanding the possible ramifications of the decision.  If you distrust Morrigan, distrust humans, distrust the Chantry description of the origin of Blights, or distrust mages you have a good reason to distrust the whole endeavor from the get go.  Add in the huge amount of uncertainty it throws in, combine that with Allistair and Anora jointly ruling as king and queen you reduce the downsides you've pointed out.  At worst you have a rough, but seemingly positive, future of Fereldan vs an entirely unknown threat that you helped create.

The threat of another blight is minuscule, as there have never been two blights with less than 100 years between them.

I'm not saying the Dark Ritual makes zero sense, but it really depends on how you weigh uncertainty in your risk analysis.  The risk of OGB is unknown, while the risks of you dying are, in principle, known.  The problem with the OGB is that only if you use game logic does it become a no-brainer.  Obviously the hero of a game won't die before they get to the main antagonist, so the DR probably means you survive.  But if this were a real battle, there is a very good chance you end up like the far more experienced Riordin.

I don't believe this is entirely true. Morrigan is rather transparent about the fact that this child will have the soul of an Old God. We can speculate the "best" or the "worst," but that hardly suggest an "entirely unknown" and "doomed future" for Ferelden. I suppose if you wanted to be a pessimist, that line of thinking could really be applied to any situation as certainty and guarantee is not applicable in anything we do.

 

In terms of the kingdom, only Alistair can rule. Anora is a liability and must either be imprisoned, which is what I did, or executed. In terms of the Grey Wardens, with Alistair out of the picture and Loghain already dead, the Warden cannot afford to be dead. As stated previously, more blights will happen and it's always unpredictable when they will occur. Why would the Warden knowingly sacrifice himself when the Grey Wardens in Ferelden would essentially be nonexistent and Ferelden would be in shambles and in a state of crisis? That makes even less sense in terms of the immediate future versus partaking in the Dark Ritual. In may respects, I would say the Warden dying actually leads to a more uncertain future, especially in regards to dealing with the Darkspawn threat.

 

Also, just because tradition has led to blights being more than a century apart, that does not mean that the trend will not be broken. Remember. It was the Architect who "unintentionally" started the Fifth Blight when he was attempting to "awaken" the Old God. Instead, he corrupted it and started another blight. Who is to say something like this could never occur again? Awakened darkspawn never even existed previously, nor did anyone know they were capable of independent thought. I find your argument of the "past events to be less than persuasive.

 

Nothing is guaranteed or certain. With that understood, I believe it is the Warden's obligation and duty to protect and defend Ferelden to the best of his ability without knowingly putting it at risk. All the Wardens dying does creates a risk without a doubt. Awakening is a perfect example of the Orlesian Warden having to step into the picture because the Ferelden Grey Wardens were entirely decimated.

[animedreamer]

My female Tabris did TUS. She was in a romance with Leliana, I just thought there was so much tragic beauty in it.

[Revan Reborn]

What I find interesting is that ritual players always assume that making the sacrifice implies a player bias against Morrigan and quickly dismiss it as a personal slight against her. It never occurrs to them that roleplaying is a thing that people do.

 

My Wardens do not have the same meta knowlege of old gods and archdemons and darkspawn etc etc that I do as the omniscient player. Nor do they have psychic powers to know what Morrigan may or may not do or say three years in the future. They have no way to know any of that, so none of those things may factor into their decision. You can like the whole of Morrigan's character as a player all you want, but given only the context of what my characters knew of the situation at hand at the time, they had no reason to trust her after she put her offer forward and revealed that this had been her ultimate goal the whole time. What I know of the whole story and what my characters know of the moment they are living are completely different things - that's roleplaying, and it has nothing to do with your personal meta feelings about this or that.

 

 

Okay, but the title of your thread is "Who actually made the Ultimate Sacrifice in DAO?" so I assumed you wanted to know who had done the sacrifice and why; not that you wanted to expose on how interesting you think the ritual is My bad for mistaking the intent of the thread, but weird question to ask if you actually want to talk about the opposite topic.

 

Anyway, answering the question, I did the sacrifice with my characters, multiple times, and those were my roleplaying reasons. I will continue to not make the dark ritual, unless one of my future characters turns out weird enough to want that, both because I have no meta-game interest in the OGB as a plot device who will never go anywhere and will probably be swept away under a sidequest of little long-term relevance at some point (because the world can't afford to break into two alternate realities); and because so far I haven't found it coherent with my characters' views from a roleplaying angle, and their own decisions as characters are ultimately what matter to me more than my own opinions as a player. Them's the breaks.

Even if we were to confine the scenario within the limits of what the Warden "knows," the outcome would still be the same. As a person who participates in "roleplaying," my character had grown to know (quite intimately) Morrigan and what her motivations and desires were. Beyond just Morrigan, my Grey Warden realized that there needed to be order and stability in a post-Blight Ferelden, as the Archdemon's defeat was all but assured.

 

When dealing with times of crisis, one of the most fatal errors all great leaders or heroes make is a lack of preparing for the future. My Warden was well aware that he was the last of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, and as a result, it was his duty and obligation to remain alive. The Grey Warden's duty is never over, even in times where there is not a blight, and it would be more crucial for a Grey Warden presence post-Blight than during it.

 

The intent of the thread is rather transparent. That doesn't mean I do not want to hear the opinions and rationale of others in regards to various choices they may have chosen instead of the ultimate sacrifice. What's wonderful about DAO's endings is there is not necessarily a "right" or "wrong" choice, as there are pros and cons to ever decisions you make. It is up to the player to decide with what choices and consequences they are willing to live (or die) with.

[Narrsan]

Disregard Morrigan.

Acquire redeemed Loghain.

[Bekkael]

I never did US in DAO, and since I got railroaded into it in ME3, I'm personally very glad I skipped that end in Dragon Age. I tried all the other endings, although the one where I recruited Loghain and Alistair left in a huff was the hardest to follow through on, since Alistair is my favorite character from the first game.

[Exile Isan]

I did the US with my female Tabris, who romanced Alistair and made him King. She evolved in my head as someone who wanted what was best for her people (Alistair as King) but didn't want to live without the person she loved (Alistair as King). *shrug*

 

I have three other characters who did the DR and one that didn't.

[Cousland27]

My first human noble and first human mage both made the 'Ultimate Sacrifice.'  Those are the only 2 times i did out of a total of 8 playthroughs.  I usually end up going through the mirror with Morrigan.

[Revan Reborn]

I never did US in DAO, and since I got railroaded into it in ME3, I'm personally very glad I skipped that end in Dragon Age. I tried all the other endings, although the one where I recruited Loghain and Alistair left in a huff was the hardest to follow through on, since Alistair is my favorite character from the first game.

Not that this is entirely relevant, but you could have avoided the "US" in ME3 had you chosen DESTROY and had 100% battle readiness as well as recruiting all the various fleets in the game.

 

Yeah, I could just never choose Loghain over Alistair. One was a kingslayer who committed treason and almost destroyed an entire nation instead of uniting it for the blight. The other was a annoying fool on the outside, but a kind-hearted and natural born leader on the inside.

[Elhanan]

Not that this is entirely relevant, but you could have avoided the "US" in ME3 had you chosen DESTROY and had 100% battle readiness as well as recruiting all the various fleets in the game.
 
Yeah, I could just never choose Loghain over Alistair. One was a kingslayer who committed treason and almost destroyed an entire nation instead of uniting it for the blight. The other was a annoying fool on the outside, but a kind-hearted and natural born leader on the inside.

Actually have saved Loghain a few times, in order that he might make the US; leaving Alistair to rule as a kind-hearted leader.

[Gilsa]

Loghain made the Ultimate Sacrifice in my first play through. I didn't know right until the end who was going to make the final blow (dammit, Riordan!), but when Loghain stepped in to make his case, it seemed fitting that he finish the work that Duncan began. I do remember Morrigan trying to make a last ditch effort by claiming that Loghain would get all the accolades among the humans and I scoffed because from a dwarven perspective, so what? These weren't her people anyway.

[badboy64]

In all of my imports for Inquisition I have all of Wardens dead as a door nail.

[Revan Reborn]

Actually have saved Loghain a few times, in order that he might make the US; leaving Alistair to rule as a kind-hearted leader.

I could never bring myself to give Loghain the honor of joining the ranks of the Grey Wardens. I found his crimes against Ferelden to be unforgivable and too great to bestow upon him such a prestigious honor. By allowing him to go through the Joining was as if I was spitting in the face of Duncan himself.

[Bekkael]

Not that this is entirely relevant, but you could have avoided the "US" in ME3 had you chosen DESTROY and had 100% battle readiness as well as recruiting all the various fleets in the game.

 

Yeah, I could just never choose Loghain over Alistair. One was a kingslayer who committed treason and almost destroyed an entire nation instead of uniting it for the blight. The other was a annoying fool on the outside, but a kind-hearted and natural born leader on the inside.

 

I did have the "good" red ending, gasp and all.....still depressing as all hell and it never felt victorious for me. It seemed BioWare wanted Shepard dead no matter what, and the gasp was their idea of an easter egg.  

 

Back on topic: I only did the Loghain ending a few months ago because I hated the idea so much, but I wanted the achievement. I made a very hateful Dalish rogue that I forced to romance Zevran (my only Zev romance lol). I found it to be a pretty miserable playthrough.

[Doominike]

YMMV on the definition of dying. My Shep is an incorporeal cyber goddess, imo she's never been in better shape

[Elhanan]

I could never bring myself to give Loghain the honor of joining the ranks of the Grey Wardens. I found his crimes against Ferelden to be unforgivable and too great to bestow upon him such a prestigious honor. By allowing him to go through the Joining was as if I was spitting in the face of Duncan himself.

I offered the man a chance at redemption, and either the Joining or the Archdemon could pay that debt.

[Narrsan]

I could never bring myself to give Loghain the honor of joining the ranks of the Grey Wardens.

What's important is that he doesn't think it so. You effectively put him on death row and immediately sentence him to community service. With a tint of redemption only an hour away.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I didn't consider joining the wardens an honor so having Loghain join them meant little to me. The only issue for me was losing Alistair but since it's either that or the DR I've contented myself with losing Alistair. *sigh* Oh well.

[MrDynogames]

I always go through the the dark ritual. It almost feels personal, like here is my warden. He's fought so hard to find his place in this world after having to leave his home. And then he's told that he may have to die to protect it, and he got scared. The thought of losing everything. The thought that if he did not go through with this then his best friend may die in his place, The man who must return and be king. And in comes Morrigan, dangling the life line infront of him. And he grabs it. 

[RustyW]

What is the default setting, if you are not using the keep at all? this is my first DA game so the past choices will not affect me much personally.

[Bfler]

What is the default setting, if you are not using the keep at all? this is my first DA game so the past choices will not affect me much personally.

 

Female elf Warden, who does the ultimate sacrifice.

[acid_rain82]

My wardens are alive.