Aller au contenu

Photo

I think Shepard was indoctrinated ever since the Arrival...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
174 réponses à ce sujet

#1
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

Why else would he spend the entire game gathering conventional galactic forces together when it's already accepted that Reapers can only be defeated unconventionally?

 

I can think of a few reasons, but this one makes the most sense to me if Shepard was indoctrinated: 

It concentrates the galaxy's best fighting forces in one location so that the Reapers can kill them all more quickly.

 

Seems like a better way would have been to scatter everybody into space Quarian-style and conduct a hit-and-run war for the next few hundred years. That would make for a boring game though. 



#2
Farangbaa

Farangbaa
  • Members
  • 6 757 messages
To protect the Crucible.

As said in the game.
  • SilJeff aime ceci

#3
Jorji Costava

Jorji Costava
  • Members
  • 2 584 messages

Clearly, only one explanation is possible:

 

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo


  • voteDC, sH0tgUn jUliA, MegaIllusiveMan et 10 autres aiment ceci

#4
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

But it was Shepard's plan to do it even before the Crucible was known to him. He comes to this strategy so quickly I would suspect it was indoctrinated programming-- the inane "Fight as we've never fought before" and "Get reinforcements to Earth!" 



#5
von uber

von uber
  • Members
  • 5 516 messages
Well you could also say that getting everything to earth rather than more military valuable places like Palaven or Thessia would also be the work of dodgy writing born of daft marketing.

Sorry, indoctrination.

#6
Obadiah

Obadiah
  • Members
  • 5 730 messages
Was gathering conventional forces even Shepard's idea?

#7
teh DRUMPf!!

teh DRUMPf!!
  • Members
  • 9 142 messages

 Arrival is not canon. That is, you can import a Shepard who never goes to that asteroid.


  • fhs33721 et ZipZap2000 aiment ceci

#8
themikefest

themikefest
  • Members
  • 21 593 messages

Shepard is following the orders of Anderson and Hackett.

 

If Shepard is indoctrinated, couldn't Garrus be as well? Aside from Arrival, he's been with Shepard nearly the whole trilogy.



#9
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

 Arrival is not canon. That is, you can import a Shepard who never goes to that asteroid.

It's got to be. The opening scenes in ME3 specifically allude to the consequences of Shepard's actions in Arrival. Also remember that Batarian with the grudge on Citadel? 


  • DeathScepter aime ceci

#10
Farangbaa

Farangbaa
  • Members
  • 6 757 messages
Shepard can't be indoctrinated anyway.

'You are an anomaly' + breaking free of the Leviathan's domination once (or a few times, not certain, not willing to check, but definitely once)

#11
teh DRUMPf!!

teh DRUMPf!!
  • Members
  • 9 142 messages

It's got to be. The opening scenes in ME3 specifically allude to the consequences of Shepard's actions in Arrival. Also remember that Batarian with the grudge on Citadel? 

 

No, the dialogue lines in the opener and with the batarian terrorist are both different if you import with Arrival not completed.

 

Also, the War Assets terminal makes it clear that Hackett sends an Alliance team to complete the task if Shepard did not do it.


  • ZipZap2000 aime ceci

#12
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

Actually now that I think about it, destroying the Batarian system didn't slow down the Reapers much if at all and conveniently eliminated a huge fighting force of Batarians without the Reapers having to lift a single finger. So that was either a really poor judgment call, or an indoctrinated decision.



#13
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

No, the dialogue lines in the opener and with the batarian terrorist are both different if you import with Arrival not completed.

 

Also, the War Assets terminal makes it clear that Hackett sends an Alliance team to complete the task if Shepard did not do it.

Damn. I thought I had a plausible theory here but I guess not ;)

 

The game still makes more sense to me if Shepard was indoctrinated though.



#14
nukembaby

nukembaby
  • Members
  • 714 messages

Shepard can't be indoctrinated anyway.

'You are an anomaly' + breaking free of the Leviathan's domination once (or a few times, not certain, not willing to check, but definitely once)

Also, I haven't played Leviathan yet, so let's not talk about it anymore (if you get my drift).



#15
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 623 messages

Was gathering conventional forces even Shepard's idea?


No, it's Hackett's. I suppose we can make the theory work if both Shepard and Hackett are indoctrinated. The Codex can be handwaved away as something that an indoctrinated Shepard only thinks he's reading. The obvious problem is that the only way this ends is with a total Reaper victory.

#16
MrFob

MrFob
  • Members
  • 5 412 messages

Clearly, only one explanation is possible:

 

*image snip*

Haha, I hadn't seen this one before. Reminds me of that DS9 episode when Sisko is just a crazy SciFi writer, inventing it all. :)



#17
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages

Well there were a lot of things in the story that just didn't make any sense.... that kid for example.



#18
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

No, it's Hackett's. I suppose we can make the theory work if both Shepard and Hackett are indoctrinated. The Codex can be handwaved away as something that an indoctrinated Shepard only thinks he's reading. The obvious problem is that the only way this ends is with a total Reaper victory.

 

Reaper Adjunct 31: Wait a minute. We have them all indoctrinated. Why are we losing??

 

Harbinger: Trust me it's all going according to plan.

 

[destroy beam activated]

 

Reaper Adjunct 31: You son of a b****!

 

Harbinger: My bad every...



#19
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 734 messages

Clearly, only one explanation is possible:

 

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo

 

lol having recently replayed The Darkness II this is actually an appealing concept.



#20
RanetheViking

RanetheViking
  • Members
  • 1 294 messages

"Ah yes the Indoctrination Theory"   "We have dismissed that claim!"



#21
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages

Actually now that I think about it, destroying the Batarian system didn't slow down the Reapers much if at all and conveniently eliminated a huge fighting force of Batarians without the Reapers having to lift a single finger. So that was either a really poor judgment call, or an indoctrinated decision.

 

You're gravely underestimating the importance of that relay. You're also overestimating the batarians.

 

Destroying the relay wasn't just to buy a little time. It was also to prevent them from using the relay to get to every part of the galaxy immediately. The relay was what is referred to as an 'alpha relay'. Instead of going into details that can be found on the wiki I'll just simplify it:

 

Normal relays are limited in the distance that they can send you. You may not realize this just by playing the game but you don't just take one relay jump to get anywhere in the galaxy. You just only see one jump - there are actually multiple jumps required depending on your destination. This is why the reapers take so long in the game to fully take over all the regions. When you highlight a place in the galaxy map you'll notice it paint a blue line from your location to the destination, kinda like connect-the-dots. This is indicating the number of relay jumps you're going to be taking to reach the target location.

 

"There are two kinds of mass relay, primary and secondary. Primary relays can propel a ship thousands of light years but only link to one other relay, its "partner". Secondary relays can link to any other relay over shorter distances, only a few hundred light years."

 

The alpha relay that Shepard destroyed was special. It, unlike the normal relays, has far superior range. It would enable you to jump your ship to the citadel and many of the other relays that would otherwise be impossible to get to with one jump. If the reapers were to get this relay they could literally jump right over to the citadel and take over the way they usually do.  Remember the method Reapers prefer to use when harvesting: they take over the citadel and shut down the mass relays to systematically harvest the galaxy system-by-system. They isolate us and harvest us... thank the spirits for the protheans modifications to the keepers, huh?

 

Destroying that relay not only kept the reapers from getting here early but also saved us from the reapers having basically a straight shot into all our systems.

 

As for eliminating a huge batarian fighting force... 300,000 isn't that significant when you're fighting reapers. Plus over half those were slaves! Yeah, the army of beaten batarian slaves are going to rise up and save us from the reapers. They can't even save themselves, the poor bastards, how are they going to stop the reapers?

 

Wiki population: Estimated 90,000 (free), 215,000 (other)

 

Given the batarian's history of slavery I think its a safe bet as to what the 'other' entails. Though the wiki does mention there are military installations, so maybe they'd be able to survive a week. Though I doubt it given how quickly the reapers were able to pretty much harvest their homeworld which has considerably more inhabitants and undoubtedly greater military defense.

 

Point being: destroying that relay was the only thing that gave us a chance at stopping the reapers and is was absolutely necessary, no matter the politically and moral quandaries that come with.

 

 

But it was Shepard's plan to do it even before the Crucible was known to him. He comes to this strategy so quickly I would suspect it was indoctrinated programming-- the inane "Fight as we've never fought before" and "Get reinforcements to Earth!" 

 

While its been pointed out that the conventional warfare thing wasn't Shepard's idea I think its worth mentioning that Shepard's stance throughout the entire trilogy has been to fight the reapers. Inane? Really? Please tell me what alternative earth has at that moment? Should Shepard adopt Saren's doctrine and go "Everyone prove you're worthy and useful to be kept alive! ALL HAIL REAPERS!"

 

Granted I thought the amount of emphasis put on "save earth" rather than "build crucible" was silly I don't see anything silly about FIGHT OR WE DIE. There is no other alternative. Unless you're Liara, apparently, who suggests you could probably hide for at least their lifetimes before the reaper harvest is complete since it takes so long. Personally, between running, pleading and fighting I have to say fighting seems the most consistent with Shepard. Besides, its not like the whole earth could just up and hide away somewhere. At this point their options seem to be to either obey the reapers and hope for special treatment (as they offer in their indoctrination camps) or fight tooth-and-nail. What else could Shepard have said? Pray?

 

Also, as others pointed out, Arrival is not canon. Though it probably should be... it would make the trail seem more important. If you didn't do Arrival I think you're being held because you worked with Cerberus. Like, seriously? REALLY? I can understand the relay incident but... lol wow.


  • crawfs et RanetheViking aiment ceci

#22
SporkFu

SporkFu
  • Members
  • 6 921 messages

While the united forces of the galaxy -- or hell, even if they were never united -- may not have been able to defeat the reapers conventionally, they were still gonna fight them for every life they harvested, even if all it amounted to was a delaying tactic so the crucible could be finished. Anderson said (something like), 'everybody here on Earth knows this is a losing proposition...'  They didn't just go hide under a rock and wait to be harvested. That's what Saren wanted everyone to do. That's indoctrination for you. 


  • Valmar aime ceci

#23
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 257 messages

Why start at arrival? For all we know ME2 Shepard is a prototype Cerberus trooper with reaper tech making him believe he's commander Shepard and every thing he's ever done has been for Cerberus but those masks in conjunction with reaper tech are changing their perception of the world.

 

That Cerberus soldier on Sur'kesh saying "wait" that was actually Liara and 'shep' just prevented the krogan from halting the reaper advance by securing the only known cure for the genophage. Tuchanka never happened.

 

Mars? 'Shep' shot up a bunch of alliance soldiers and stole the information he needed to get the crucible into the citadel.

 

TIM is actually Hackett and vice versa.

 

Recruiting the Rachni takes on a whole new meaning.

 

Rannoch.

 

Saving the Ardat Yakshi secures a supply of Banshees.

 

How else did the reapers know where to find Leviathan you lead them straight to him.

 

The crucible doesn't save the galaxy it destroys it.

 

Time is cyclical over time the same patterns repeat over and over. The reapers use this trick in every cycle to defeat their enemies.With that in mind the only way to defeat the reapers is to have everyone die in ME2 and not play ME3 at all or kill everyone off in ME3 and pick refuse.



#24
ZipZap2000

ZipZap2000
  • Members
  • 5 257 messages

@nukembabay if you look at your war assets without completing arrival the asteroid wipes out "the bridge burners" and alters your EMS points. But it doesn't happen till after Tuchanka wether that's an oversight or not i'm not sure if it isn't it would indicate the Alpha relay gets destroyed much later in the game.



#25
SporkFu

SporkFu
  • Members
  • 6 921 messages


Why start at arrival? For all we know ME2 Shepard is a prototype Cerberus trooper with reaper tech making him believe he's commander Shepard and every thing he's ever done has been for Cerberus but those masks in conjunction with reaper tech are changing their perception of the world.

 

That Cerberus soldier on Sur'kesh saying "wait" that was actually Liara and 'shep' just prevented the krogan from halting the reaper advance by securing the only known cure for the genophage. Tuchanka never happened.

 

Mars? 'Shep' shot up a bunch of alliance soldiers and stole the information he needed to get the crucible into the citadel.

 

TIM is actually Hackett and vice versa.

 

Recruiting the Rachni takes on a whole new meaning.

 

Rannoch.

 

Saving the Ardat Yakshi secures a supply of Banshees.

 

How else did the reapers know where to find Leviathan you lead them straight to him.

 

The crucible doesn't save the galaxy it destroys it.

 

Time is cyclical over time the same patterns repeat over and over. The reapers use this trick in every cycle to defeat their enemies.With that in mind the only way to defeat the reapers is to have everyone die in ME2 and not play ME3 at all or kill everyone off in ME3 and pick refuse.

It's interesting; If you take Liara to Cronos Station with you, and you're watching all those vid terminals while EDI unlocks doors, the first one talks about the Lazarus Project. shep will express doubts about whether she's really herself, or maybe a high-tech VI that only thinks it's Commander Shepard. Liara will say (something like), "I knew you were really you the moment  I touched you."  Dunno if it's required to be in a romance for this or not... whenever I take Liara to Cronos Station, I am in a romance with her, so dunno if she says something different.