174 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

The Crucible arrives only after the Reapers are engaged in a fight with the whole galactic fleet. They sneak from behind and dock the Crucible. When Reapers notice that, they try to react but the fleet holds them off to give Shepard a chance to activate it.

[nukembaby]

Except it is mentioned in codexes that The Quarian fleet can't fly around the galaxy nonstop. They have to refuel their ships sometimes on inhabitated worlds and buy food and gather other materials for repairs and stuff. If you try outsmart the Reapers by hiding in space quarian style folloing situation arises:

1) You escape into space with quarian style fleets

2) Reapers come and take control over the inhabitated worlds and harvest those who stayed behind.

3) Your fleets start to run out of fuel, or some other necessary things.

Then you have the choice of either.  1)Drift round in the void of space until your ship falls apart and everyone dies.

                                                    or: 2) Try to refuel at a Reaper controlled world and everyone gets killed by Reapers.

Seriously they just have to wait until you run out of ressources.

That being said aside from the quarians themselves no species has enough Ships to evacuate more than a extremely small breakpart of their population.

 

 

Well the scattering into space would only be the first step. The next would be leveling the playing field with guerilla warfare on small groups of Reapers and also planetary raids for supplies. The Reapers will be spread pretty thin so should not pose too much of an issue in either case. Think of Battlestar Galactica and how they were pretty successful even with that single group of ships. Also Reapers require resources to survive as well (as witnessed by their need to hibernate) so will not be able to wait us out indefinitely. Who can wait longer is unknown though...but a war of attrition is in our best interest since we can build ships and gather troops faster than they can.

[Valmar]

Well the scattering into space would only be the first step. The next would be leveling the playing field with guerilla warfare on small groups of Reapers and also planetary raids for supplies. The Reapers will be spread pretty thin so should not pose too much of an issue in either case. Think of Battlestar Galactica and how they were pretty successful even with that single group of ships. Also Reapers require resources to survive as well (as witnessed by their need to hibernate) so will not be able to wait us out indefinitely. Who can wait longer is unknown though...but a war of attrition is in our best interest since we can build ships and gather troops faster than they can.

 

We can build ships and gather troops quicker than the reapers... Okay. I'm out. Peace.

[nukembaby]

 

So you think the advice of "fight" is inane but the idea of stuffing humans on ships and shooting them out, hoping they can make it away from earth without reapers gunning them down, is the better idea? Running seems like a horrible option to me. We fight or we die. Period. 

 

Remember the fact that we're massively outgunned? Every successful asymmetric war in history avoided pitched battles, exactly like the one at the end of ME3. Yeah I get it, it's just a game and wouldn't be very exciting my way. 

 

Evacuating an entire planet surely is not trivial--neither is forging interspecies alliances or building the Crucible. But I think it could be done, especially as you assert with the time bought from destroying the relay in the Arrival. I don't think it's necessary to evacuate everybody either; the rest of the population would be loaded into deep impregnable bunkers at a handful of locations and all the planetary defenses focused on those spots. These could hold out for some time, especially if each bunker had a self-sufficient ecosystem (gardens, recycled water, etc.). Think of the "Silo" series of books. This combined with guerilla attacks by fleets hidden in space could pose a serious issue for Reapers over time. 

 

OK, so Reapers can travel much faster than our ships, but they still won't be able to chase everyone down. They would need one Reaper ship for every one of ours if we all go in different directions (think of a lion going after a herd of gazelles). In order to attenuate the risk of being ambushed, they would likely send 2-3 at a time as well. And that's if they knew exactly where each was going which they wouldn't. Space is a big place; it would be very easy to lose the Reapers in it.

[nukembaby]

We can build ships and gather troops quicker than the reapers... Okay. I'm out. Peace.

How long does it take to make a Reaper ship vs one of ours? From ME2 we know that it takes millions of harvested organics to make even one Reaper ship. Also my impression is that all the existing Reaper ships were made a long time ago and have been hiding in dark space all this time. In other words, no new Reaper ships are getting built. In terms of troopers, yes they can just huskerize the existing population, but not if my strategy was followed. And organics can reproduce or clone themselves or build more robots. I haven't seen the Reapers show any ability to create fighting forces from scratch--it's always about huskerizing the existing organics.

[nukembaby]

Okay. I'm out. Peace.

LOL, as if this is a serious debate I think we're all just bored.

[Kenshen]

Good question. The reapers obviously have the firepower to destroy the crucible no matter how many ships were guarding it. My guess is that it was always the Starchild's plan to have Shepard survive and get to the Citadel. Why? Because in order to end the perpetual cycle, organic life must make the final decision for themselves. In all previous cycles, organic life never advanced far enough, but this time is different due to Shepard.

 

Except the kid itself says its solution that it has held onto for millions of years will no longer work once the crucible docked it realized there were new options.  Really the reapers didn't attack the crucible due to plot armor.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

 Arrival is not canon. That is, you can import a Shepard who never goes to that asteroid.

 

Not according Mass Effect: Conviction... It actually states that you completed the Arrival DLC...

 

A batarian Newcast on Omega is saying: "--While the Citadel Council scrambles to denounce the so-called terrorists acts allegedly carried out by Commander Shepard, Batarian Officials are demanding Retribution"

 

So, Shepard actually did do the Arrival DLC and we never lost the 103rd Marine Company...

 

Edit: Also, Batarians said "you're a Shepard Lover, Human" and the NewCast also said that "Batarians are demanding Shepard's Head"

[MegaIllusiveMan]

If we're going to wave away every stupid decision by calling it indoctrination, I wonder why the galaxy put up a fight at all. Cause everyone and their moms would be indoctrinated

 

Ah yes, "Reaper Indocrination". We have dismissed that claim.

[nukembaby]

Ah yes, "Reaper Indocrination". We have dismissed that claim.

Yeah it's kind of like the Matrix and the theory that the whole thing happens inside the matrix (which wasn't the case).

 

But then you have to ask yourself, what makes Shepard so special? He's been exposed to artifacts so many times he should be indoctrinated many times over. 

[Vazgen]

Yeah it's kind of like the Matrix and the theory that the whole thing happens inside the matrix (which wasn't the case).

 

But then you have to ask yourself, what makes Shepard so special? He's been exposed to artifacts so many times he should be indoctrinated many times over. 

As Liara would say in a non-import playthrough "It must be the Prothean beacon you activated on Eden Prime!". I swear, she gives that explanation to everything!

[fhs33721]

Well the scattering into space would only be the first step. The next would be leveling the playing field with guerilla warfare on small groups of Reapers and also planetary raids for supplies. The Reapers will be spread pretty thin so should not pose too much of an issue in either case. Think of Battlestar Galactica and how they were pretty successful even with that single group of ships. Also Reapers require resources to survive as well (as witnessed by their need to hibernate) so will not be able to wait us out indefinitely. Who can wait longer is unknown though...but a war of attrition is in our best interest since we can build ships and gather troops faster than they can.

Hahahahahahah. Guerilla tactics against Reapers? I doubt It would  work. Even one Reaper is likely to wipe out a few of your ship before it goes down. Remember waht happened in ME1 with Sovereign. Also I doubt any actual victories could be achieved. They never really lost a battle during ME3 either. They were able to invade an utterly destroy Batarians, humans and Turians in very short sucession and The Asari soon followed without any defeat at all (not counting Tuchanka and Rannoch, since that wasn't a full on Reapers assault but just single destroyers haging out there.)

Planetary raids on Reaper controlled planets? Just fly in the sun instead that will be less painful I think.

Lastly I'm pretty sure they can gather troops and ships faster than us. Every ded soldier on your side that dies and every one they capture they only have to impale on a dragon spike and they gain a new solder. ALso they have other machines to do their bidding like the occuli mini ships. And since they sit an all the worlds with the ressources you can bet they can build them faster than you in the void of space.

Also let's not forget that the Reapers not only outgun you but also outnumber you, most likely by far. A war of attrition will probably not be in your favor at all.

[fhs33721]

 

But then you have to ask yourself, what makes Shepard so special? He's been exposed to artifacts so many times he should be indoctrinated many times over. 

Protagonist plot armor is my guess. After all Shepard can also avoid being fried by a Reaper-laser, that cuts trough warships like butter, by ducking behind a piece of rock. It isn't even a very thick piece of rock.

[nukembaby]

As Liara would say in a non-import playthrough "It must be the Prothean beacon you activated on Eden Prime!". I swear, she gives that explanation to everything!

Actually, that's not a bad answer--but but but it means the Protheans knew of a way to resist indoctrination which every thing else proves false

[nukembaby]

Hahahahahahah. Guerilla tactics against Reapers? I doubt It would  work. Even one Reaper is likely to wipe out a few of your ship before it goes down. Remember waht happened in ME1 with Sovereign. Also I doubt any actual victories could be achieved. They never really lost a battle during ME3 either. They were able to invade an utterly destroy Batarians, humans and Turians in very short sucession and The Asari soon followed without any defeat at all (not counting Tuchanka and Rannoch, since that wasn't a full on Reapers assault but just single destroyers haging out there.)

 

Well this is exactly the reason I don't think it makes sense at all to concentrate all of our forces in one location against the Reapers! They would wipe us all out much faster than if we spread out and forced them to hunt us down one by one.

[fhs33721]

Well this is exactly the reason I don't think it makes sense at all to concentrate all of our forces in one location against the Reapers! They would wipe us all out much faster than if we spread out and forced them to hunt us down one by one.

I don't think the assets you collect are all in one place most of the game. It's just in the very end when the crubcile is finished that they come together and start one final desperate assault with the sole purpose of capturing the Reapers attention long enough for Andersons strike team to open the Citadel and for Hacketts last fleet to dock the crubcile.

[AlanC9]

Well this is exactly the reason I don't think it makes sense at all to concentrate all of our forces in one location against the Reapers! They would wipe us all out much faster than if we spread out and forced them to hunt us down one by one.

So you'd rather lose slowly than lose fast? OK. But you're choosing to certainly lose, although slowly, over trying for a possibility of winning. Guerrilla fighting hardly neutralizes the Reapers' strengths -- in some respects it plays into their strengths, since the Reapers have no fixed bases and superior mobility.

[fhs33721]

So you'd rather lose slowly than lose fast? OK. But you're choosing to certainly lose, although slowly, over trying for a possibility of winning. Guerrilla fighting hardly neutralizes the Reapers' strengths -- in some respects it plays into their strengths, since the Reapers have no fixed bases and superior mobility.

Who doesn't want to live to see the increasingly horrendous monstrosities the Reapers come up with and feel the despair of being stuck in a hopless war you could never hope to win?

Oh, wait..... that sounds awful.

[nukembaby]

So you'd rather lose slowly than lose fast? OK. But you're choosing to certainly lose, although slowly, over trying for a possibility of winning. Guerrilla fighting hardly neutralizes the Reapers' strengths -- in some respects it plays into their strengths, since the Reapers have no fixed bases and superior mobility.

Yeah I would definitely choose losing slowly; it's all about buying time. Buying time to live, buying time to regroup, buying time for the Geth to come up with some sort of viral counter-attack (which I think they could pull off). 

 

It's ridiculous that the military chose to go with such a high risk gamble as the Crucible. They didn't even know how to operate it, assuming they would magically figure it out once Shepard got there. What utter BS. No military in the galaxy would take that chance.

[von uber]

If arrival is not canon then neither is any dlc.

[nukembaby]

Who doesn't want to live to see the increasingly horrendous monstrosities the Reapers come up with and feel the despair of being stuck in a hopless war you could never hope to win?

 

You're totally right. We could never win...not with that attitude

 

May as well commit mass suicide to avoid the horrors of war. Oh wait, but we said we would fight. Does not compute.

[fhs33721]

If arrival is not canon then neither is any dlc.

Correct no DLC is canon. You can skip them all and the story still makes perfect sense (or as much sense as it does with all the DLC).

[Vazgen]

Correct no DLC is canon. You can skip them all and the story still makes perfect sense (or as much sense as it does with all the DLC).

DLCs are canon, as are official books and comics and animated movies (unless devs say otherwise). They are not essential to the story though.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Does canon really even mean anything in Mass Effect?

[AlanC9]

Yeah I would definitely choose losing slowly; it's all about buying time. Buying time to live, buying time to regroup, buying time for the Geth to come up with some sort of viral counter-attack (which I think they could pull off).

It's ridiculous that the military chose to go with such a high risk gamble as the Crucible. They didn't even know how to operate it, assuming they would magically figure it out once Shepard got there. What utter BS. No military in the galaxy would take that chance.

So, you're trading the deus ex machina superweapon for which they have blueprints for a vague hope that someone will come up with a better deus ex machina superweapon. Sounds legit. Why not hope for Jesus to return and defeat the Reapers while you're at it?

The italed is simply wrong. As far as they knew the Crucible would function as soon as they docked it. It's a surprise when that doesn't happen.

Modifié par AlanC9, 05 novembre 2014 - 12:51 .