Yup if you skip the DLC it's as if it never happened.
Farren dead.
David dead.
Special forces took down Alpha relay.
Shepard never asks Cortez "What happened to the hammerhead?" because it wasn't there to begin with.
Grey box never leaves Donovans possession and he hands the info over Jandam Bau.
Random Krogan and Angry Lady replace Zaeed.
Probably more but I had a long night last night and my head is all fuzzy atm.
So, you're trading the deus ex machina superweapon for which they have blueprints for a vague hope that someone will come up with a better deus ex machina superweapon. Sounds legit. Why not hope for Jesus to return and defeat the Reapers while you're at it?
The italed is simply wrong. As far as they knew the Crucible would function as soon as they docked it. It's a surprise when that doesn't happen.
The Crucible is a prototype. No sane military would depend on an untested prototype when the stakes are that high. Huh, it didn't work as they thought it would? No sh*t sherlock!
It's not a vague hope that the pooled resources of the Council races can come up with a counter-attack while hiding out in space. They have done other very impressive things in history like create AI, engineer the genophage and uplift the Krogan.
Yup if you skip the DLC it's as if it never happened.
Shepard never asks Cortez "What happened to the hammerhead?" because it wasn't there to begin with.
I'm currently doing an ME3 default playthrough and Shepard does ask him about the Hammerhead. Shepard even asks about it even if the Firewalker dlc was never done in ME2
I don't know if he was indoctrinated, but I do think that was when Harbinger first got it's tentacles into Shepard's mind. I don't think that Shepard was indoctrinated complete until the end of ME3.
@Mike My mistake must've missed it on my vanilla run.
So a sane military would hide and hope somebody thinks of something they like better than the plan for a weapon they already have in their hands?The Crucible is a prototype. No sane military would depend on an untested prototype when the stakes are that high. Huh, it didn't work as they thought it would? No sh*t sherlock!
Of course it's vague; all you were able to come up with was an "Independence Day" regurgitation. They have no idea what such a "counter-attack" would look like. If they knew of a Reaper vulnerability they'd already be working on it. They don't know of one.It's not a vague hope that the pooled resources of the Council races can come up with a counter-attack while hiding out in space. They have done other very impressive things in history like create AI, engineer the genophage and uplift the Krogan.
DLCs are canon, as are official books and comics and animated movies (unless devs say otherwise). They are not essential to the story though.
I'd rather argue that only the main plot points of DLC and books as well as the main game are canon. As in Sovereign always dies, the Alpha relay gets blown up no matter what happens, Liara always retrieves Shapards corpse and becomes shadowbroker. Various details like if the council died in the progresss, who does the blowing up, if Shepards helps Liara or even Shepards gender though aren't canon.
For the comics and books Bioware probably uses the same strategy as for the Dragon Age ones. (They follow one possible world state and the events of them always happen, but details might change in different world states.)
No leviathan therefore no explanation of the reaper's origins.
No javik therefore no insight into the protheans or the lifting up of the asari.
And so on.
Leviathan still exists, but neither Shepard nor anyone else never knows it and of course doesn't get convenient exposition from them. Also the archeologist most likely dies and the project is probably shut down after the Reaper war.
Javik still exists, but Cerberus probably gets him and does some experiments on him before they are defeated by the alliance and nobody ever learns of him. He probably blew up together with TIMS base or something.
The Crucible is a prototype. No sane military would depend on an untested prototype when the stakes are that high. Huh, it didn't work as they thought it would? No sh*t sherlock!
It's not a vague hope that the pooled resources of the Council races can come up with a counter-attack while hiding out in space. They have done other very impressive things in history like create AI, engineer the genophage and uplift the Krogan.
I'm pretty sure even a sane military would consider it, if the alternative was complete and utter anihilation by eldritch space horrors, whose favourite pastimes include but are not limited to: literally liquidizing people, impaling people on spikes that turn them into mindless zombies and mind raping everyone just by being in near them.
And no, the council races would loose most their resources if they abandoned their planets and fled into the depths of space. You can't build whatever better sperweapon you come up with out of the void of space. And while what they achieved is impressive by our current technological standard, the Reapers already defeated far more advanced civilisations with ease, including the protheans (who are the only reason the current cycle is still alive), all the species before that helped design the crubcile and the cataclyst even defeated the Leviathans who apparently were on quite god-like levels themselves. I doubt the current cylce would ever come up with anything even remotely more promising than the crubcile.
How bout this.
Everything after Ilos is a thrall.... EVERYTHING.
How crazy is that???? Pretty crazy huh.
But I've seen some sh!t man..... I've seen some stuff...... That would blow your mother fookin' mind!
Shep was compromised way back in ME2's intro the moment he/she woke up on that table he/she wasn't themselves. The signs are enough to make a case on she was basically a walking indoctrination story which could've made sense if BW actually went that route but then they override it via the ending. I'm not into the IT but the evidence that BW wanted to make Shep indoctrinate her friends and the galaxy to get them in one place to kill them all is there but like I said BW wrote out what they could of this plot line during 3 and what they couldn't rewrite they had to BS with new lines, odd scene arrangements, or flat out ignoring what was infront of the viewer I don't have any time to go over it but the signs are back before arrival, arrival makes it more obvious for those who weren't paying attention but it was there before hand.
So a sane military would hide and hope somebody thinks of something they like better than the plan for a weapon they already have in their hands?
Of course it's vague; all you were able to come up with was an "Independence Day" regurgitation. They have no idea what such a "counter-attack" would look like. If they knew of a Reaper vulnerability they'd already be working on it. They don't know of one.
No hope needed; it's called R&D. The Council races (along with the Geth) together have enough combined brainpower to do it absolutely. What exactly the counter-attack would turn out to be nobody knows of course because the story was never written that way. I'd much rather some kind of Independence Day nuke-their-shield generator tripe vs the Crucible though. At least the former makes sense. Can anyone even tell me how the Crucible works? What is the exact physics behind it? No? I thought so. Compare to the atomic bomb which was fully understood inside and out and tested multiple times before being deployed in WWII.
It's not the Reapers who are killing us; it's really our own military's stupidity and incompetence.
what if We were indoctrinated by the Reapers?
what if We were indoctrinated by the Reapers?
I say everyone but Shepard was indoctrinated.
Holy crap it makes sense.
We hated the endings....because we were indoctrinated! We wanted the Reapers to win!
I say everyone but Shepard was indoctrinated.
Shepard: Shut up! You're all indoctrinated! Hasn't anyone else noticed this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
No hope needed; it's called R&D. The Council races (along with the Geth) together have enough combined brainpower to do it absolutely. What exactly the counter-attack would turn out to be nobody knows of course because the story was never written that way. I'd much rather some kind of Independence Day nuke-their-shield generator tripe vs the Crucible though. At least the former makes sense. Can anyone even tell me how the Crucible works? What is the exact physics behind it? No? I thought so. Compare to the atomic bomb which was fully understood inside and out and tested multiple times before being deployed in WWII.
It's not the Reapers who are killing us; it's really our own military's stupidity and incompetence.
What makes you think the Council and Geth do have the brainpower to come up with anything though? The Reapers are supposed to be millions of years more advanced than anyone else, how is a few hundred years of thinking about it going to close that gap? Some earlier cycle spent the hundreds of years it took the Reapers to harvest them completely doing the kind of R&D you're talking of and the Crucible was the fruit of that. The galaxy's leaders would be fools to discard what they believe to be the Protheans' answer when they've got no other ideas, after all the Protheans are the only reason this cycle had any chance to begin with.
And there it is, the final plot hole that ruins my nostalgic feels about independence day.
Indoctrination of Shepard was never really a thing at any point. If it was his story wasn't over and the reaper conflict would be unresolved.
What makes you think the Council and Geth do have the brainpower to come up with anything though? The Reapers are supposed to be millions of years more advanced than anyone else, how is a few hundred years of thinking about it going to close that gap? Some earlier cycle spent the hundreds of years it took the Reapers to harvest them completely doing the kind of R&D you're talking of and the Crucible was the fruit of that. The galaxy's leaders would be fools to discard what they believe to be the Protheans' answer when they've got no other ideas, after all the Protheans are the only reason this cycle had any chance to begin with.
I think it's way past time to re-evaluate just how bad-ass we think the Reapers are.
1) Reapers are not that hard to kill conventionally. We see it multiple times in ME3. Granted it takes a lot of ships and firepower, but it's doable. Even a sandworm can take down a Reaper!
2) Reapers are not that smart. Sovereign really impressed me with his first speech in ME1, but at the end of the game he chooses to fight Shepard by proxy through Saren's body. Why not just vaporize the Presidium? Just idiotic. In ME3 they're made even dumber with the discovery that they're just tools of the Starchild to do his bidding--ie they have no mind of their own, just really deep voices.
3) Reaperized ground troops are a joke. In ME2, Harbinger with any entire force of Collectors couldn't defeat Shepard and his small crew. In ME3, in just one weekend challenge, the multiplayer community was able to slaughter 1 million banshees, 2 million brutes, 5 million everything else. In two days! I myself can kill a banshee single-handedly in 10 seconds with the right kit in platinum multiplayer. So there will absolutely be no problem to retake planets that Reapers control while hiding in space.
I think it's way past time to re-evaluate just how bad-ass we think the Reapers are.
1) Reapers are not that hard to kill conventionally. We see it multiple times in ME3. Granted it takes a lot of ships and firepower, but it's doable. Even a sandworm can take down a Reaper!
2) Reapers are not that smart. Sovereign really impressed me with his first speech in ME1, but at the end of the game he chooses to fight Shepard by proxy through Saren's body. Why not just vaporize the Presidium? Just idiotic. In ME3 they're made even dumber with the discovery that they're just tools of the Starchild to do his bidding--ie they have no mind of their own, just really deep voices.
3) Reaperized ground troops are a joke. In ME2, Harbinger with any entire force of Collectors couldn't defeat Shepard and his small crew. In ME3, in just one weekend challenge, the multiplayer community was able to slaughter 1 million banshees, 2 million brutes, 5 million everything else. In two days! I myself can kill a banshee single-handedly in 10 seconds with the right kit in platinum multiplayer. So there will absolutely be no problem to retake planets that Reapers control while hiding in space.
I think it's way past time to re-evaluate just how bad-ass we think the Reapers are.
1) Reapers are not that hard to kill conventionally. We see it multiple times in ME3. Granted it takes a lot of ships and firepower, but it's doable. Even a sandworm can take down a Reaper!
2) Reapers are not that smart. Sovereign really impressed me with his first speech in ME1, but at the end of the game he chooses to fight Shepard by proxy through Saren's body. Why not just vaporize the Presidium? Just idiotic. In ME3 they're made even dumber with the discovery that they're just tools of the Starchild to do his bidding--ie they have no mind of their own, just really deep voices.
3) Reaperized ground troops are a joke. In ME2, Harbinger with any entire force of Collectors couldn't defeat Shepard and his small crew. In ME3, in just one weekend challenge, the multiplayer community was able to slaughter 1 million banshees, 2 million brutes, 5 million everything else. In two days! I myself can kill a banshee single-handedly in 10 seconds with the right kit in platinum multiplayer. So there will absolutely be no problem to retake planets that Reapers control while hiding in space.
I think it is you who needs to re-evaluate how bad-ass the Reapers are.
1) We see it exactly 7 (counting those cannon things in London which I don't think are actual Reapers) times in the ME3. One of those times (the only time We actually see a capital Reaper ship die) it was Leviathan who himself is leagues above everything in this cycle. The other times it are the comparably weak ass destroyer variant of the Reapers and as you already said for one it took an entire quarian fleet to take it down and another one was killed by giant sandworm and not anyone of the council races. That makes a stunning kill count of 5 for the alliance and allies. With vague codex entries which mention some Reaper casualties we can probably say this cycle killed maybe about 5 dozen Reapers (if we are generous). And the Reapers number at least more than 200 capital ships alone(counting only those we see approaching in the end of ME2) but more likely in the thousands considering that they were around for millions of years.
So yeah I'd say that they are hard to kill conventionally and everyone in game even agrees with that assessment.
2)True that, they don't act smart. Because they are the villains and extremely powerful. If they acted smart just once it would be game over and everyone dies.
But since this is a video game they have to carry the idiot ball in order for the player to be able to actually win. (Not solely a video game problem, it happens in other media quite often as well)
Also the fact that Starchild actually controls them does not suddenly negate the fact that they are technoogically superior to everyone else by far.
3)Shepard is a video game protagonist. S/he is and his/her crew are ridiciously overpowerded badasses (with plot armor to boot in Shepards case). Most normal soldiers aren't and to them Reaper groundtroops are a pure horror. That's one reason why millions of deaths happen on the battlefields daily in ME3. And even if it was as easy to kill them as you think, there would still be the Reapers themselves who can vaporize entire battalions in seconds. So no retaking planets is quite impossible.
Also, multiplayer gameplay as example of how Reapers are weak lorewise? Really?
1) sure, when you have one isolated and multiple ships firing upon it. But how often in a field of combat would that happen? Unlikely, even with guerilla warfare.
2) Sovereign didn't vaporize the Presidium because the objective was to use the control panel (located in the Citadel tower) to open the gate from dark space - which could not be done remotely, hence why he needed Saren. THAT was why he reanimated Saren to fight Shepard - he needed Shepard out of the way, the tower intact, and someone inside of it to activate the panel.
3) multiplayer stats are hardly canon for the capabilities of galactic troops - rather, it is simply entertaining, fun, and the events of multiplayer are only loosely canon...let alone kill stats.
1) Yes but it proves they are not invulnerable or indestructible against our tech. All we would need is continuous improvement in weapons--not a quantum leap or fundamental breakthrough.
2) OK now I remember why he did it. But apparently doing so he exposed a vulnerability that allowed his ship to be destroyed easily once Saren's body failed. Still not that smart.
3) ME3 multiplayer is canon; it contributes war assets to the SP.
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