what you're saying is all the LIs in Jade Empire were able to be mind-controlled into agreeing with your morality and world-view.
The fact that there were two females had less to do with them always making more evil female LIs and more to do with their just being more female LIs period in that era of Bioware games. Note that there basically aren't any really evil LIs post Jade Empire in Bioware games. Not Mass Effect, not Dragon Age.
Time to add some then! 
Yeah I remember the discussions we had about this in the old romance thread XD
Honestly I'm just tired of good guys. I'd take Bishop's jerkwad self at this point over another noble upstanding let's always do the right thing type.
Seriously? Not judging in any way, really curious here. A selfish jerk who cares about no one and only interested in you as a bed warmer, who is going to betray you at first opportunity for money or the idea that any attachment is a weakness - and you see a great potential for love here? Under condition of no redemption (because redemptions are boring)?
Bishop is an interesting character - no doubts - but love is an attachment, compassion, sacrificing something for the one you love. You add any of thees quality it to the villain - and he is a villain no more. Compassionate caring Bishop is a Bishop no longer.
Seriously? Not judging in any way, really curious here. A selfish jerk who cares about no one and only interested in you as a bed warmer, who is going to betray you at first opportunity for money or the idea that any attachment is a weakness - and you see a great potential for love here? Under condition of no redemption (because redemptions are boring)?
Bishop is an interesting character - no doubts - but love is an attachment, compassion, sacrificing something for the one you love. You add any of thees quality it to the villain - and he is a villain no more. Compassionate caring Bishop is a Bishop no longer.
Yes. I'm that tired of woobies and KISA that something like that would at least be different since drama seems to be a requirement in the romances. Many things become boring when it's constant.
Also when you say great potential for love no I'm not expecting romance novel swooning. Not in the least bit. I'm not expecting anything overly fluffy either.
You're saying villians don't care about anything ? That's a rather shallow (and ultimately boring and 2 dimensional) villian wouldn't you say? Now it might not be affection for a certain person. But someone who cares for nothing at all is hardly compelling.
Now them placing what they do care otherwise (their goals or whatever) above their love interest? I'd be okay with that. The whole I love you therefore you're the most important thing ever is a bit odd anyway.
Seriously? Not judging in any way, really curious here. A selfish jerk who cares about no one and only interested in you as a bed warmer, who is going to betray you at first opportunity for money or the idea that any attachment is a weakness - and you see a great potential for love here? Under condition of no redemption (because redemptions are boring)?
Bishop is an interesting character - no doubts - but love is an attachment, compassion, sacrificing something for the one you love. You add any of thees quality it to the villain - and he is a villain no more. Compassionate caring Bishop is a Bishop no longer.
Well, for me the point is that this whole romance thing doesn't have to be about love. It doesn't have to contain any actual romance. It can just be some sort of sexual relationship that may start out as pure bed warming and evolve into one where there is mutual grudging respect, but genuine romantic feelings never have to be a part of it at any stage.
I don't understand why it's so hard to picture a villain being in love. I blame movies and their one dimensional villains.
But then again, I love playing games where a LI wants to be with the main character so badly he's willing to rip his head off so he can be with him forever.
Oh and Vaas is awesome! I would love to have him for a companion just for the heck of it.
@Lennard, I agree. I love those question mark romances where you're left guessing as to whether or not the couple love each other.
Bishop is chaotic evil though and a rather difficult example, which doesn't mean it wouldn't work. But take a lawful evil character and things get a lot easier. Still evil, yet so many more options story wise.
My favourite would be a Raymond Reddington kind of villain like in The Blacklist TV series. Manipulative, intelligent, yet quite obviously capable of love. You could even say it motivates him depending on your view.
Time to add some then!
They have! Didn't you notice there's actually more male LIs in DAI than female?
However, the pie is not being sliced along lines of good and bad anymore, because the pie is instead being slices along orientation lines.
And there's only so much pie.
They have! Didn't you notice there's actually more male LIs in DAI than female?
However, the pie is not being sliced along lines of good and bad anymore, because the pie is instead being slices along orientation lines.
And there's only so much pie.
That pie would taste so much more delicious if it were a 'forbidden' pie.... You'll see. Come over to the dark side, we have pie!
Honestly my ideal darker LI if forced to choose between the PC and their goals would prefer to have both. And ideally they could convince the PC to aid them because a powerful ally is better than a powerful enemy. They would attempt to do so.
But if it came to the PC or their goals and the option for both was completely off the table they'd pick their goals.
Because my NE PCs would do the same and they really wouldn't expect anything less from their partners.
*shrug*
That pie would taste so much more delicious if it were a 'forbidden' pie.... You'll see. Come over to the dark side, we have pie!
XD this is making me hope Solas is a dark LI. I would actually play dalish elf if he was. I doubt it though.
That pie would taste so much more delicious if it were a 'forbidden' pie.... You'll see. Come over to the dark side, we have pie!
Meh. forbidden pie gives me heart-burn. I'll take a nice NG or CG... cake, or whatever, any day.
XD this is making me hope Solas is a dark LI. I would actually play dalish elf if he was. I doubt it though.
I suspect the only remotely dark LI will be Iron Bull, not sure really.
I suspect the only remotely dark LI will be Iron Bull, not sure really.
I have a sense he'll fit into the redeemable woobie type. Just a hunch.
XD this is making me hope Solas is a dark LI. I would actually play dalish elf if he was. I doubt it though.
Nothing about him strikes me a dark. Very little about him strikes me as LI material either, so what do I know?
Yes. I'm that tired of woobies and KISA that something like that would at least be different since drama seems to be a requirement in the romances. Many things become boring when it's constant.
You're saying villians don't care about anything ?
Now them placing what they do care otherwise (their goals or whatever) above their love interest? I'd be okay with that. The whole I love you therefore you're the most important thing ever is a bit odd anyway.
Ok, got it. You and Lennard Testarossa are arguing for inclusion of pure sex without any feelings involved with someone obviously evil, who cares nothing about you. Can not understand that desire but each their own.
The only problem I see here is that it's difficult to make such a companion. NPC - no problem but companion... Instead of writing a romace plot writers would have to come up with a reason for such person to be in the group and for others to tolerate his presence. Not an easy tusk without forced-companions. Should there be an option to get rid of Bishop (or try SWTOR evil companions) - many would run Bishop-free (or Scudge-free and so on).
Uh...not really? As long as they're not antagonizing the other companions unnecessarily and they are following the PC around because he/she is the best way to get what they want there's no reason for a bunch of squabbling. If anything they could be the more aloof type instead of needlessly antagonizing people. As for why they're tolerated...they bring something to the group that's valuable. No different than recruiting Sten or Oghren really.
Also evil doesn't mean needless aggravating everyone in the group. It's much easier to learn people's weaknesses and strengths when they trust you.
That said I really prefer most of the companions not be forced good or not. Forced companions particularly those not tightly woven in the plot tend to make little sense regardless of their alignment when done in great numbers.
Wrong! I said "do not care about ANYONE". Others are tools. You do not care about tools, you use them. Even a favorite horse is just a horse - should there be need to kill it or leave it, there will be no doubts.
And woe and behold there are villians that have loved ones even if they use anyone outside that bubble. (Not to mention don't care about anyone? Not even themselves? Uh...) That said even a mutual using each other until the usefulness is eroded relationship would be preferable to me over yet another wobbie or KISA.
Remember Anders? Not a villain in your classification, but he put his revolution above Hawke. Love is an emotion from a good specter, LUST - is another thing. May be it is time to include it in to the games. But I would like to get simultaneously an option to shoot in the face that villain lusting my character.
Very true about Anders placing his revolution over the PC. That said you getting your option to shoot them in the face should come right after I can throw most of the KISA into a black pit never to be seen again. That said you should be able to reject them harshly (across the board really regardless of how good or evil they are). The only evil companion/villian I'd want is one who would accept that and move on.
Nothing about him strikes me a dark. Very little about him strikes me as LI material either, so what do I know?
Sadly I find myself agreeing with this.
The only problem I see here is that it's difficult to make such a companion. NPC - no problem but companion... Instead of writing a romace plot writers would have to come up with a reason for such person to be in the group and for others to tolerate his presence. Not an easy tusk without forced-companions. Should there be an option to get rid of Bishop (or try SWTOR evil companions) - many would run Bishop-free (or Scudge-free and so on).
Shale talked about squishing your whole party for a good couple hours and no one batted an eyelash.
Ultimately, I wouldn't want one of the two options I would get for my orientation being an evil character. I don't even care much for the harsher personalities (Morrigan, Miranda Lawson, etc.). One of these days I hope I'll actually have trouble choosing a LI in a game, instead of finding the "nice girl" to be the only one I can actually stomach.
But, it is looking more and more like the DA Team is allocating more resources to romance content for hetero females. In that case, I can totally see them making more "out there" romance options, since there will be plenty of other options for those who don't like that niche.
Shale talked about squishing your whole party for a good couple hours and no one batted an eyelash.
I, for one, never wanted to sleep with Shale.
Also, I would have killed Shale so hard if she ever went beyond mere words. But I wasn't going to hurt her just for talking smack, she's gotta be traumatized from being a statue for a couple of decades. 
While I can understand OP's point, I'd have to pass on such a relationship. Romances being entirely optional in these things anyway, I'd not be averse to Bioware including one like it. As a companion though, I'd probably gut the 'dark douchy guy' rather than recruit him--at the very least just not recruit him. It's not a personality that would mesh well with mine and I just can't roleplay someone that would.
And woe and behold there are villians that have loved ones even if they use anyone outside that bubble. (Not to mention don't care about anyone? Not even themselves? Uh...)
I was planning on making a morally dubious Qunari rogue, but what with the recent new of their hair loss...
I'm now thinking battle hardened Sean Bean warrior (grizzled, stoic, good but makes tough decisions) or an albino mage (may or may not be seeking to attain more power).
I knew I had to add "except themselves"! Even wanted to. Anyway, it might help to define "villain" first. Or even better name one from BW games. I'd suggest SWTOR (lot's of characters, easy to find an example) but others will do fine too.
For example, for me Bishop is not really a villain. He is evil (a very definition of chaotic-evil alignment, and btw as one he truly does not care about anyone including himself), but not really a villain. On the other hand Arishok is a villain yet not evil a bit (looks more like a true neutral to me).
If you want just a bad-boy a la "let's kill everyone in the group, take their money, run away together and stay for as long as I want you in my bed" (story ends, no heroic deeds, character ends up one day alone and robbed) - it's one thing. Complex relationship with a villain in the game - is another. Btw, in SWTOR you can have it - Imperial Agent story, for example. I mean, BW does that things if not so often. But then it will be really a story about you and the villain, not an easy going side-quest-romance.
I didn't ask for a villian LI originally though. Just a darker companion LI without the woobie factor or redemption arc. But if I had to have a villianish LI it'd be someone pretty human who just disagreed with the PCs methods or goals. SWTOR villians tend to be rather one dimensional though for the most part. You get a few exceptions (agent story) but most of them are kind of shallow.
Uh...swtor isn't about the agent and the villian though. Hunter plays a part yeah but it's mostly the agent being screwed over by the Sith. Time. And Time. Again.
If there was a villian LI I much prefer he/she be a NPC that you talked to along the course of the game.
But yeah I already said what I wanted above but I'll resay it:
I just want a driven, cunning and charming male character. One who can agree with ruthless decisions (provided they're effective) because he'd make the same decisions in the PCs shoes. One that's not gonna be a woobie with a sad past or yet another knight in shining armor that glares at the PC whenever she dares do something cruel that is to her benefit. A equal partner not someone that needs to be comforted, taught or herded. Someone who has a decent sense of humor without being self depreciating. Someone without self esteem issues.
Also a lot of the sidequest romances are drama landen and not easy going so...it'd be par for the course there.
But people do it, it's probably the first thing I'd imagine if you told me someone has a dark secret. That or a rape dungeon
Why would rape dungeon be a thing that comes to mind? Did I just miss a lot of subtext in this thread?
Why would it not? Do you not watch the news?
I, for one, never wanted to sleep with Shale.
Also, I would have killed Shale so hard if she ever went beyond mere words. But I wasn't going to hurt her just for talking smack, she's gotta be traumatized from being a statue for a couple of decades.
Well no, I didn't mean in an LI sense.
I meant, none of your companions said "She killed her master and she keeps on making threatening comments, why the hell is she here?" And no one objected to Sten either, even though he was a murderer. (I don't think, please point out any errors I've made).
My point was that your party always tolerates your other companions, outside of a few jabs.
I really didn't want to take Sten with me I just wanted to free him. But since he refuses to be freed without stalking me he dies in most of my games.
The only problem I see here is that it's difficult to make such a companion. NPC - no problem but companion... Instead of writing a romace plot writers would have to come up with a reason for such person to be in the group and for others to tolerate his presence. Not an easy task without forced companions. Should there be an option to get rid of Bishop (or try SWTOR evil companions) - many would run Bishop-free (or Skadge-free and so on).
For them just to be companions, I do think it's doable. You just have to make them important. Say if in the case of Inquisition, the inquisitor was actually a companion- you're going to need them however much a dick they are.
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