665 réponses à ce sujet

[Moirnelithe]

Completely agree about Anders, all I was saying he did fit your initial description - devoted to his own course while Hawke came only second. 

 

Now the underlined part is very contradictory itself. Because described person can not be in the same time selfish and caring, ruthless and kind, and so on. ESPECIALLY in the game environment where you have to underline characters main points. Loving and caring Sarevok - is like Zaeed-nun. (Btw I would seriously argue Zaeed's "darkness" or evilness) 

 

"Romantic evil" a la La bella Mafia  exists only in movies. IRL a jerk is a jerk. I do not understand the desire to be verbally and physically abused by you "LI", but not arguing about that wish, just ask you again to think from the game point - why on earth would you voluntarily keep such a person around? I mean, you would because you want someone like this, but it has to make sense game-wise. Force it by plot - and I will be the first one on the forums screaming about bad game design (followed by thousands, I assure you). Give the choice - and that companion will be left out by more then 80% of the players (according to paragon statistic from ME). 

 

Probably, less then 20% is enough to make the effort, I do not know. But I do see why more traditional rout is more attractive to writers.

We're not asking for "romantic evil" IRL though.....just in games. I think everyone here knows very well that having a 'bad' boy IRL isn't particularly recommended. 

[Malkavianqueen]

Characters like Viconia and Morrigan have an almost fanatical following. I don't think a darker character would necessarily mean everyone would skip them. For me, I would love to have a darker LI that was male. That's it. I don't seek this kind of relationship irl (though as many people have said, most of the companions are very flawed and would be undesirable irl for various reasons anyway). I just want a male character LI who's more pragmatic and ruthless to fit my pragmatic and ruthless characters.

[Ryzaki]

We're not asking for "romantic evil" IRL though.....just in games. I think everyone here knows very well that having a 'bad' boy IRL isn't particularly recommended. 

 

I don't get why people keep saying this like we're too stupid to know the difference between fiction and reality. It's starting to irritate me.

[KainD]

Now the underlined part is very contradictory itself. Because described person can not be in the same time selfish and caring, ruthless and kind, and so on. ESPECIALLY in the game environment where you have to underline characters main points.

"Romantic evil" a la La bella Mafia exists only in movies. IRL a jerk is a jerk. I do not understand the desire to be verbally and physically abused by you "LI", but not arguing about that wish, just ask you again to think from the game point - why on earth would you voluntarily keep such a person around? I mean, you would because you want someone like this, but it has to make sense game-wise.

BS. Did you read any other points in this thread? How a person treats other people is completely separate from how the person treats you. I am a selfish and carring person, I am ruthless and kind. It all depends on the situation and people, and what is gained by the action.

[KainD]

We're not asking for "romantic evil" IRL though.....just in games. I think everyone here knows very well that having a 'bad' boy IRL isn't particularly recommended.

No "everyone" doesn't think that. Evil people can be romantic IRL.

[Ryzaki]

No "everyone" doesn't think that. Evil people can be romantic IRL.

 

Okay everyone in this thread that's not KainD then.

[KainD]

Okay everyone in this thread that's not KainD then.

I guess I must have some serious misconceptions about myself, that or I don't exist. Lol

[Moirnelithe]

No "everyone" doesn't think that. Evil people can be romantic IRL.

You're right, I shouldn't have spoken for you. Personally I wouldn't risk getting involved with one IRL knowingly, no matter how romantic, but to each their own    

[Amirit]

I'm fairly certain he went there intending to die by the PC hands

 
Ok, this is the point where I stop arguing like I would never argue about religion with a believer. Please, do not take it in a bad way, all I mean is the very, VERY different look at every possible subject. My white is your black and vise-versa. 
 

I loved the IA storyline best of all of them.  Especially chapter 2.  Hunter was a real dick and I was totally surprised by the reveal at the end.  Not sure I'd call Hunter a LI, more of a flirty villain who wants to make you a personal pet/toy.  Made reversing what the Sith Council did to my Cipher Agent all the more personal.  She didn't like the Sith from the moment they screwed up the op on Hutta, and that just continued to grow throughout her tale.
 
I went LightSide on mine, more as a 'protest' to the Sith than anything else, but you get some really interesting choices on that side of the game for Imperials.
 
*edit* Now I want to make another IA and play her...I guess I have my "What will I do till Inquisition is here?" puzzle figured out.

 

I did run IA story with a male agent and Hunters line felt perfect (actually, at some point even better then with female agent. One reason I love that story so much - every time you decide "ok, it was written for a male", the story proves - no, female all the way!). Have to agree about Kalio - lying, cheating on you, spying on you and having own agenda - all you can ask from a dark LI    

 

(Btw, now it's still a good time to roll another agen - with that 12x exp boost you can level only from the story, never touching a side-quest.)

[Ryzaki]

 
Ok, this is the point where I stop arguing like I would never argue about religion with a believer. Please, do not take it in a bad way, all I mean is the very, VERY different look at every possible subject. My white is your black and vise-versa. 
 

 

I did run IA story with a male agent and Hunters line felt perfect (actually, at some point even better then with female agent. One reason I love that story so much - every time you decide "ok, it was written for a male", the story proves - no, female all the way!). Have to agree about Kalio - lying, cheating on you, spying on you and having own agenda - all you can ask from a dark LI    

 

(Btw, now it's still a good time to roll another agen - with that 12x exp boost you can level only from the story, never touching a side-quest.)

 

You must've been on the swtor forums eh? I'm not mad believe me I've had my share of back and forth about this subject already

 

But my issue with Kaliyo is as you said bad forced companions are bad. And I mostly played good empire guys and DS pub guys (what can I say I like going against the norm).

 

Her, Skadge and Ashara. God I hate forced companions so damn much.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Now the underlined part is very contradictory itself. Because described person can not be in the same time selfish and caring, ruthless and kind, and so on. ESPECIALLY in the game environment where you have to underline characters main points. Loving and caring Sarevok - is like Zaeed-nun. (Btw I would seriously argue Zaeed's "darkness" or evilness) 

 

No, it isn't the tiniest bit contradictory. And I honestly don't know how else to even phrase this to make it clear. Let me post the most important part again:

 

"But that doesn't mean that he has to have those attributes in the most extreme way possible and to the exclusion of all other attributes."

 

Just because someone is generally a selfish and ruthless person doesn't mean that they are always 100 percent selfish and ruthless in every way imaginable with absolutely no consideration for anything or anyone else ever. Someone can be ruthless without being willing to kill off half the world's population for a minor gain. One can be an unemotional, unloving person without being someone who never has and never will in any way ever feel the tiniest amount of affection towards anyone.

 

I'm not talking about 'romantic evil'. Not everyone who is somewhat of a jerk is always a complete jerk to everyone at all times.

 

And people do keep companions like Edwin around. Why wouldn't they? He's a great wizard.

[Amirit]

You must've been on the swtor forums eh? I'm not mad believe me I've had my share of back and forth about this subject already

 

 

I am still there And though that particular subject is beaten to the death it comes up every time someone new is playing SW or discussion about companions comes up. Now I can stay away from it but I learned my lesson - love is a victory of imagination over the mind.

[Ryzaki]

I am still there And though that particular subject is beaten to the death it comes up every time someone new is playing SW or discussion about companions comes up. Now I can stay away from it but I learned my lesson - love is a victory of imagination over the mind.

 

Yeah Quinn and Corso bring up a lot of debates. (Ugh Corso. A perfect example of a "good" person that I wouldn't romance if I was offered a hundred k)

 

That said despite my liking of Quinn he really should've been killable. It's absurd that he isn't. Same with Ashara, Xalek, Temple, Kaliyo and Skadge.

[Amirit]

...

 

I'm not talking about 'romantic evil'. Not everyone who is somewhat of a jerk is always a complete jerk to everyone at all times.

 

And people do keep companions like Edwin around. Why wouldn't they? He's a great wizard.

 

To answer the question - it's because he has great stats and his alignment plays little role in the story. Not to mention BG is old-rules DnD game, where alignment is a math. You have a character of Evil scale - you want similar companions. And most importantly, with it's text format BG has all time of the world to make as complex character as one can be (though I - personally - woould call a loving jerk a schizophrenic). Modern cinematic games do not have that luxury. You have to define a companion-to-be in full with a few lines (very expensive lines). So that your character could know what to expect from that NPC at critical moments. In this case consistency is everything.

 

It seems you are still looking at companions from BG perspective. And I'm afraid we are past even DAO character-development wise: not enough companion slots, not enough room for character-defining side-stories, more focused stories where evil oriented group can not solve the case, and so on.   

 

I think with all limitations on hands BW did a good job with companions and even LI, considering ALL games - SWTOR included. And DAI promises a lot too

[Doominike]

Unfortunate Implications.  Bi-Pan sexuals are all evil. Bi and Pansexuals are already sick of seeing the bi characters all being promiscuous Rogues with traumatic pasts. Now they're universally the evil LI too?  No Bueno.

I guess, people get offended by loads of things

[sylvanaerie]

 
Ok, this is the point where I stop arguing like I would never argue about religion with a believer. Please, do not take it in a bad way, all I mean is the very, VERY different look at every possible subject. My white is your black and vise-versa. 
 

 

I did run IA story with a male agent and Hunters line felt perfect (actually, at some point even better then with female agent. One reason I love that story so much - every time you decide "ok, it was written for a male", the story proves - no, female all the way!). Have to agree about Kalio - lying, cheating on you, spying on you and having own agenda - all you can ask from a dark LI    

 

(Btw, now it's still a good time to roll another agen - with that 12x exp boost you can level only from the story, never touching a side-quest.)

I can't say I've played the male.  I always felt it was well written for the female, though.  I especially like the Chiss female for the storyline on Hoth with the Chiss agents.  And Vector is my fave romance.

 

I always felt Smuggler fit best with females, the flirts are just better on her.  I love making Skavak persona non grata with the ladies thanks to the little slicer lass I free on Coruscant--something only a female has the option for.  I also like to woohoo with him at the end of the chase and then tell him "Eh I've had better" making him flip out.  Or the noble on Alderaan you help, you can 'misinterpret' his come on as a 'engagement proposal'.  I about wet myself when my smuggler looked around the room and said "So, if I marry you, I get half your stuff?"  And he backpedals faster than a man on a bike with no brakes going down a hill.

 

Freaking good times!

 

lol and I did hop onto an IA.  Up to Grathan's estate on DK now 

[Todd23]

Yes! For some reason I've always been attracted to dark and even unstable girls.
My Dragon Age romance: Morrigan.
My Mass Effect romance: Jack.
I would love more dark and darker romances.

[Xilizhra]

About 10% of players (hell I think it was lower) played dwarf in DAO. They're still a race in DAI and have I'd imagine the same amount of race specific content as the rest of the classes.

 

Also why do people keep bringing up RL like we don't know this is a bad thing in reality? So are the rest of the LIs! Most of them need therapists not romance interests. Our PCs run around murdering people willy nilly with no psychological impact as well. Are you going to complain about that not being true to reality unless the person doing so is insane?

 

And for the upteenth time. Have them bring something to the PCs group that's invaluable (maybe a noble with an army of soldiers and if he goes so do they, maybe he has knowledge of the antagonist and knows the weaknesses of their magic and no he's not going to just tell you, so on). But I for one hate forced companions so ideally not. Recruiting Merrill on my pro templar Hawke never fails to have me sigh.

It's hardly impossible to have both love and a therapist, preferably not in the same person. However, Thedas has no therapists, so saying that the LIs need one is a bit pointless. As for killing that many mooks... yes, in fact, I do dislike that never being brought up, I just have little hope of eliminating it.

However, I don't think we should have too much added incentive to keep someone evil around.

[Doominike]

Therapists ? So the followers all become well-adjusted normal boring people ? No thanks

[Ryzaki]

It's hardly impossible to have both love and a therapist, preferably not in the same person. However, Thedas has no therapists, so saying that the LIs need one is a bit pointless. As for killing that many mooks... yes, in fact, I do dislike that never being brought up, I just have little hope of eliminating it.

However, I don't think we should have too much added incentive to keep someone evil around.

 

I highly highly doubt it's recommended a therapist be a lover for their patient. There's so many ways that can explode that...yeah no. As for pointlessness true enough that doesn't make those relationships anymore realistic or healthy which was my point. Crying about realism is a bit daft because a vast majority of the romances if not all of them fail to meet that standard. You don't like an darker romance? Fine. Everyone has different preferences and all that jazz. But don't try to lean on the "it's bad in real life!" argument. It's weak because no duh it's bad in real life. So is a lot of the crap we do in these games.

 

*shrug*

[Xilizhra]

I highly highly doubt it's recommended a therapist be a lover for their patient. There's so many ways that can explode that...yeah no. As for pointlessness true enough that doesn't make those relationships anymore realistic or healthy which was my point. Crying about realism is a bit daft because a vast majority of the romances if not all of them fail to meet that standard. You don't like an darker romance? Fine. But don't try to lean on the "it's bad in real life!" argument. It's weak because no duh it's bad in real life. So is a lot of the crap we do in these games.

 

*shrug*

I make every effort to not do in games what I think is bad in real life. And I'm mostly against them spending resources on content that nearly everyone will find actively unappealing, though I'm not fond of stories with bad messages either.

 

Also, what are you on about with Ashara being a bad character? I find her amazing and find it deeply sad that I can't romance her.

[KainD]

I make every effort to not do in games what I think is bad in real life. And I'm mostly against them spending resources on content that nearly everyone will find actively unappealing, though I'm not fond of stories with bad messages either.

 

Most people play games to do something that they can't do irl, that includes doing things that some consider bad. 

[Xilizhra]

Most people play games to do something that they can't do irl, that includes doing things that some consider bad. 

What I can't do is blast the wicked with magical fire. I find it enjoyable enough to stick with that.

[Ryzaki]

I make every effort to not do in games what I think is bad in real life. And I'm mostly against them spending resources on content that nearly everyone will find actively unappealing, though I'm not fond of stories with bad messages either.

 

Also, what are you on about with Ashara being a bad character? I find her amazing and find it deeply sad that I can't romance her.

 

That's great for you. That doesn't mean everyone plays that way. Also I suppose we should take out dwarves then? Since you know more people play darker characters than play dwarves as for bad messages I was perfectly able to play and excel as darker characters in every single BW game. That ship sailed a while ago.

 

She's a terrible character actually. Especially since she's forced on the Sith Inquisitor despite a blatant (let her die) choice that goes ignored for reasons. And her "don't make me go against my values" and "jedi don't fear death" are particularly laughable after her begging for her life if you shock her.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

However, I don't think we should have too much added incentive to keep someone evil around.

I seem to recall that the court system will allow you to recruit defeated enemies, with the operative question being "Are you willing to recruit someone who you know to be evil in order to make your Inquisition more powerful?" So, yes, you're being offered incentives to keep evil people around you. Whether these incentives are worth it is half the question, with the other half being "Am I being an idiot storing this person in the castle I sleep in?"