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[In Exile]

Male Miranda without the whole "I want to be normal" and self esteem issues would be wonderful. And no she's not evil that's kind of the point. She is however darker (she works for and supports Cerberus despite the BS they pull and she would've put a control chip in Shep's head if TIM hadn't stayed her hand).

I love Miranda so she's one of the few females I will gladly romance on a male.

(And she is so the type who would crack someone's skull open to get the information inside). But she clearly has people she cares about.

But Miranda is clearly not even remotely close to being evil. She's not even a villain. She's a better human being than renegade Shepard by a country mile. The worst thing about her is that she's ruthless - but she's only ruthless because she thinks that's all she can be to save a lot of lives. She's got all the qualities of a protagonist. She even is one in that game that featured Jacob as the interlude to ME2.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zealotry doesn't sound like a very compelling evil to me. Sure it is effective, interesting though...not so much, not to me at least. But then I've never been fond of lawful good paladins either and many people love those. I prefer a more manipulative evil...give me power plays, seduction, intrigue, betrayals.

 

Zealotry is when a generally reasonable set of beliefs is taken to uncompromising extremes. Some ideological constructs are extreme by their very construction. 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' and all that.

 

I would agree that, on a personal level, manipulative evil is more interesting and entertaining. Not the Emperor Palpatine 'everything has gone according to my calculations' [sarcasm]genius[/sarcasm], but more mundane and practical manipulations that turn people against their intended values. I'm especially fond of the rare few who can use kindness and virtues as a weapon and a lever- nothing is quite as entertaining as a moralistic defection from the 'good guys.'

 

That said, I think my favorite act of subtle corruption and pure evil was in Terry Pratchet's book 'Good Omens.' An agent of hell comes with an insiduous plan to... make a traffic pattern in the form of a satanic symbol. Besides the symbolic victory, the genius comes in how a little act of deliberate traffic congestion gets hundreds of thousands of good people into bad moods, bad moods which they unjustly take out on their friends and families and coworkers and subordinates, who are subsequently put in bad moods that they take out on others, leading to a ripple effect of malevolence that leaves everyone worse off.

 

That, despite killing no one directly, was pure evil.

[Ryzaki]

In my own defense, I was drunk at the time.

 

Nope too late. I do this because I care.

 

Never again shall we have people questioning Asari sex organs. YOU OPENED PANDORA'S BOX. 

 

 

And yeah Aizen's probably a terrible example. In my defense I pretty much stopped watching bleach after the whole butterfly crap years ago

[In Exile]

Nope too late. I do this because I care.

Never again shall we have people questioning Asari sex organs. YOU OPENED PANDORA'S BOX.


And yeah Aizen's probably a terrible example. In my defense I pretty much stopped watching bleach after the whole butterfly crap years ago

Ugh, bleach. It had such a promising start and became such an unmitigated trainwreck.

But anyway, I get why Aizen is really attractive (not just physically). It's just that all the things that make him attractive make him a *horrible* partner on every level. His crowning moment of awesome is the absolute emotional shattering of everyone who ever cared for or otherwise idolized him, and his whole path to power was based on finding someone who could care for him that he could exploit. His superpower is basically emotional abuse.

[Dean_the_Young]

But Miranda is clearly not even remotely close to being evil. She's not even a villain. She's a better human being than renegade Shepard by a country mile. The worst thing about her is that she's ruthless - but she's only ruthless because she thinks that's all she can be to save a lot of lives. She's got all the qualities of a protagonist. She even is one in that game that featured Jacob as the interlude to ME2.

 

Someone mentioned it before, but Zaeed (and, in a sense, Wrex) are probably the best examples of casual-evil companions. If you take them seriously, they're both pretty much horrible people- or at least Wrex was, until they went the whole 'savior of his barbarian species' route in ME2 and ME3. ME1Wrex and ME2Zaeed are basically a couple of goons for hire who, without any personal antipathy, are pretty much comfortable discussing crime and kill counts and murder for money without blinking an eye. They like you well enough, so long as you do things they want for you, but both get far more annoyed at you for crossing their personal objectives than they do any moralizing or personal investment in your opinion towards them.

 

They're still both quite popular, helped in part that neither of them turn their ambivalence or mercenary attitudes against you, but they're hardly good people either. Romances with them (species considerations aside) would likely be mutually enjoyable and beneficial for as long as it lasted... without necessarily being a commitment or reformation plot device.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nope too late. I do this because I care.

 

Never again shall we have people questioning Asari sex organs. YOU OPENED PANDORA'S BOX.

 

So my fan thread is also going to be a memorial shrine?

 

Didn't realize you were into snuff.

[KainD]

What you want is some idolised villain who's terrible with everyone *but* you because you're such a special snowflake, and I'm telling you this is pure character breaking fantasy. The kind of people you're describing as desirable LIs are exactly the characters that would lack all of the possibilities of being good to the people around them.

 

This kind of relationship, it's like a contract, an extreme version of ''you scratch my back and I scratch yours.'' The fact that only two people treat each other like that is because 1) It sucks to be completely alone. 2) The more you give to others the less is left for yourself, so there can be only one, like with everything. 

[Ryzaki]

But Miranda is clearly not even remotely close to being evil. She's not even a villain. She's a better human being than renegade Shepard by a country mile. The worst thing about her is that she's ruthless - but she's only ruthless because she thinks that's all she can be to save a lot of lives. She's got all the qualities of a protagonist. She even is one in that game that featured Jacob as the interlude to ME2.

 

Good thing I asked for a darker LI and not a puppy killer evil one then isn't it?

 

Also considering renegade Shepard is pretty much the chaotic brute kind of character I specifically don't want. (pure renegade anyway. Mostly renegade works fine as the more manipulative type.) that's hardly telling me something I don't know.

 

That said I didn't see her in the interlude to Jacob thing. (comic or whatever it was).

 

Zealotry is when a generally reasonable set of beliefs is taken to uncompromising extremes. Some ideological constructs are extreme by their very construction. 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' and all that.

 

I would agree that, on a personal level, manipulative evil is more interesting and entertaining. Not the Emperor Palpatine 'everything has gone according to my calculations' [sarcasm]genius[/sarcasm], but more mundane and practical manipulations that turn people against their intended values. I'm especially fond of the rare few who can use kindness and virtues as a weapon and a lever- nothing is quite as entertaining as a moralistic defection from the 'good guys.'

 

That said, I think my favorite act of subtle corruption and pure evil was in Terry Pratchet's book 'Good Omens.' An agent of hell comes with an insiduous plan to... make a traffic pattern in the form of a satanic symbol. Besides the symbolic victory, the genius comes in how a little act of deliberate traffic congestion gets hundreds of thousands of good people into bad moods, bad moods which they unjustly take out on their friends and families and coworkers and subordinates, who are subsequently put in bad moods that they take out on others, leading to a ripple effect of malevolence that leaves everyone worse off.

 

That, despite killing no one directly, was pure evil.

 

That's some god tier trolling.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ugh, bleach. It had such a promising start and became such an unmitigated trainwreck.
 

 

I prefer headcanon-induced retcon and memory denial.

 

Hey everyone, isn't it a shame that Bleach ended right at the end of the Soul Society arc?

 

 

But anyway, I get why Aizen is really attractive (not just physically). It's just that all the things that make him attractive make him a *horrible* partner on every level. His crowning moment of awesome is the absolute emotional shattering of everyone who ever cared for or otherwise idolized him, and his whole path to power was based on finding someone who could care for him that he could exploit. His superpower is basically emotional abuse.

 

I got more annoyed at the increasingly ridiculous 'I planned that' moments across the story. No matter how random, unpredictable, obscure, or outright impossible things got... we were still supposed to take him seriously as an unparalleled planner and genius.

 

Er, I mean we would have, if it hadn't ended at the Soul Society arc where his machinations were remotely plausible.

[Bugsie]

I find it rather baffling how fierce people are fighting the addition of a dark LI. It's a game people, why not let others who are tired of the goody-two-shoes beaten path enjoy it too. There are 6...SIX...male LI in DA:I, you want all of them to be your knights in shining armour apparently. How boring.
 

I don't think of it as 'boring' as such, it's more that the range of what people's idea of 'role playing' differs significantly. Some people just can't dissociate playing a dark character or romancing a dark character from their own personal irl morals and actions and some just don't enjoy playing darker characters or romancing LI with darker personalities. How many times have I heard people here say they can only play their own gender, or only play human, or their own sexuality? Lots!

Having said that, I think its good to have a range of actions or companions who take a darker path and it should be available to those that enjoy them. Having only played RPGs since 2006 myself, I'm only just starting to enjoy the different paths you can take. One day I might even be able to enjoy playing an evil character or romancing a LI who I currently find (on a personality level) unattractive.

[Dean_the_Young]

Good thing I asked for a darker LI and not a puppy killer evil one then isn't it?

 

Also considering renegade Shepard is pretty much the chaotic brute kind of character I specifically don't want. (pure renegade anyway. Mostly renegade works fine as the more manipulative type.) that's hardly telling me something I don't know.

 

You know what you should do some time? Dark Side Trooper.

 

That guy is a total brute, thug, and even corrupt mercenary. Still on the right side of history, but you get the chance to kill Senators of the Galactic Republic.

 

And yet he still was sweet on his medic... so much so that he offered to murder the ******* who was harassing her about her defection from the Even Eviler Empire.

 

(She declined. She was the good influence in that relationship- he would not do some bad things more for her opinion than anyone elses.)

 

 

 

That's some god tier trolling.

 

Minor devil, really.

[MisterJB]

Ok, thought this was going to be about racially diverse LIs and found talks about how attractive Aizen is. Not what I expected.

Good manga, pity the author gave up on writing after the Soul Society arc and just gave the rights to some hobo he found on the street. Coincidentally, the same man who just wrote Naruto's ending. 

[In Exile]

Someone mentioned it before, but Zaeed (and, in a sense, Wrex) are probably the best examples of casual-evil companions. If you take them seriously, they're both pretty much horrible people- or at least Wrex was, until they went the whole 'savior of his species' route in ME2 and ME3. ME1Wrex and ME2Zaeed are basically a couple of goons for higher who, without any personal antipathy, are pretty much comfortable discussing crime and kill counts and murder for money without blinking an eye. They like you well enough, so long as you do things they want for you, but both get far more annoyed at you for crossing their personal objectives than they do any moralizing or personal investment in your opinion towards them.

They're still both quite popular, helped in part that neither of them turn their ambivalence or mercenary attitudes against you, but they're hardly good people either. Romances with them (species considerations aside) would likely be mutually enjoyable and beneficial for as long as it lasted... without necessarily being a commitment or reformation plot device.

Wrex wanted to he a saviour in ME1 too. He's just also a militant space dictator. Maybe not as bad as Wreav but only because he's not as stupid. I do agree with you overall - I just don't think Wrex ever changed as a character.

We can debate whether or not they're similar though. Wrex seems like he can be caring - that's why he has his saviour complex. Zaed is missing that dimension - he's just a mercenary. Wrex likes violence a great deal, but he's more political.

[The dead fish]

You clearly don't want Aizen. Because Aizen as an LI is an abusive monster - look at what he does to Hinamori. He builds up her entire life to idolise him and throws her away like yesterday's garbage once she outlives her usefulness. He doesn't care about his minions, which he experiments on for the purpose of advancing his agenda. And he doesn't have anything even approaching a companion he cares about in any way.

What you want is some idolised villain who's terrible with everyone *but* you because you're such a special snowflake, and I'm telling you this is pure character breaking fantasy. The kind of people you're describing as desirable LIs are exactly the characters that would lack all of the possibilities of being good to the people around them.

The only IRL examples you've fallen back on are either greed or not giving a crap about the poor, which is nothing like what Aizen Sousuke is like in bleach.

 

Okay, you are talking about bleach, here I am.  I am pretty certain that nobody in this thread wants Aizen as LI ( or someone like him ), no matter what they think about darker romanceable characters. Unless they want to be treated like sh*t and a useful tool every second of their life, with false hopes and no love at all. The guy can't feel anything for anyone, not even his most loyal servant or a special snowflake. He would kill and betray you immediately if it could serve his purpose, would let you be killed while he could actually save you if he found you useless at one time ( and he could even do the same to useful tools actually lol ). And again given what I read in this thread, yep, nobody wants this. 

[In Exile]

I prefer headcanon-induced retcon and memory denial.

Hey everyone, isn't it a shame that Bleach ended right at the end of the Soul Society arc?


I got more annoyed at the increasingly ridiculous 'I planned that' moments across the story. No matter how random, unpredictable, obscure, or outright impossible things got... we were still supposed to take him seriously as an unparalleled planner and genius.

Er, I mean we would have, if it hadn't ended at the Soul Society arc where his machinations were remotely plausible.

You're right. I really wish bleach explored more of that hollow teaming up with the chess master in Aizen plot instead of getting suddenly and abruptly cancelled. What a strange decision.

I read this ridiculous fan-ficition about Aizen somehow arranging Ichigo's birth. Man, good thing that's not what happened.

[Ryzaki]

Ugh, bleach. It had such a promising start and became such an unmitigated trainwreck.

But anyway, I get why Aizen is really attractive (not just physically). It's just that all the things that make him attractive make him a *horrible* partner on every level. His crowning moment of awesome is the absolute emotional shattering of everyone who ever cared for or otherwise idolized him, and his whole path to power was based on finding someone who could care for him that he could exploit. His superpower is basically emotional abuse.

 

Ended better than Naruto from what I hear (SasuskexSakura? WHY I stopped after the whole Orichomaru crap but even I could see he cared nothing for her I doubt he got any better )

 

Would be good for the inevitable out use each other but BW doesn't go that dark so I wouldn't expect them to do it. Hell they can't even have their woobies get actual help that's not just the power of friendship/love. I'll stick to my otome games for those trainwrecks. (Alas the female character tends to be so damn weak willed)

 

I prefer headcanon-induced retcon and memory denial.

 

Hey everyone, isn't it a shame that Bleach ended right at the end of the Soul Society arc?

 

 

I got more annoyed at the increasingly ridiculous 'I planned that' moments across the story. No matter how random, unpredictable, obscure, or outright impossible things got... we were still supposed to take him seriously as an unparalleled planner and genius.

 

Er, I mean we would have, if it hadn't ended at the Soul Society arc where his machinations were remotely plausible.

 

Yes that works!

 

Have you seen death note? I swear LIght and L started pulling crap out their asses after a while. (Light man...Light I loved you when you were all doe eyed and adorable. Then that damn death note made you all red eyed and cray cray.) But even despite that Light's crazy ass still cared about his sister (hell I think if he'd just let her die he might've been able to escape. But my memory on everything after episode 25 is hazy cause god it started sucking after that). Then Near came out and made L's asspulls seem rational. (never forget the stupidity of copying the death note perfectly. NEVER. FORGET. )

 

 

So my fan thread is also going to be a memorial shrine?

 

Didn't realize you were into snuff.

 

You brought it on yourself

 

Noooo not like that. You'll be beautiful skeleton...yes! Beautiful skeleton!

 

You know what you should do some time? Dark Side Trooper.

 

That guy is a total brute, thug, and even corrupt mercenary. Still on the right side of history, but you get the chance to kill Senators of the Galactic Republic.

 

And yet he still was sweet on his medic... so much so that he offered to murder the ******* who was harassing her about her defection from the Even Eviler Empire.

 

(She declined. She was the good influence in that relationship- he would not do some bad things more for her opinion than anyone elses.)

 

 

Minor devil, really.

 

Yeah trooper and BH are the two classes I can't really play LS in. I can't justify it. (Which is weird because I find LS sith very easy to justify in comparison).

 

But yeah I'll do that then. I did the whole somewhat of a good influence with a DS SW and Quinn's whole "for the empire!" thing. So it should be fun.

 

Still was masterful.

[Dean_the_Young]

We can debate whether or not they're similar though. Wrex seems like he can be caring - that's why he has his saviour complex. Zaed is missing that dimension - he's just a mercenary. Wrex likes violence a great deal, but he's more political.

I think of them similar in terms of their attitude of 'old war buddies' level of affection for people they've known and are willing to identify being friends with. They really don't have any moral objections to others, or most of what they themselves do, so long as it doesn't cross some personal lines. They're willing to be friends with people all the same, and even furious at betrayal... but if those non-betraying friends die, they'll clearly move on and not be devastated. Company is to be enjoyed, not relied upon.

 

In many respects, that's what I think a 'dark/evil' relationship would be most plausible as. A mutually enjoyable and beneficial indefinite partnership... but one that might end at any given time, if conditions are met.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ok, thought this was going to be about racially diverse LIs and found talks about how attractive Aizen is. Not what I expected.

Good manga, pity the author gave up on writing after the Soul Society arc and just gave the rights to some hobo he found on the street. Coincidentally, the same man who just wrote Naruto's ending. 

 

IT NEVER ENDED. IT JUST DISCONTINUED.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes that works!

 

Have you seen death note? I swear LIght and L started pulling crap out their asses after a while. (Light man...Light I loved you when you were all doe eyed and adorable. Then that damn death note made you all red eyed and cray cray.) But even despite that Light's crazy ass still cared about his sister (hell I think if he'd just let her die he might've been able to escape. But my memory on everything after episode 25 is hazy cause god it started sucking after that). Then Near came out and made L's asspulls seem rational. (never forget the stupidity of copying the death note perfectly. NEVER. FORGET. )

 

L was amazing, and I cried when he died. It was a good thing he won before he did, though.

 

[movie can ending FTW]

 

 

You brought it on yourself

 

Noooo not like that. You'll be beautiful skeleton...yes! Beautiful skeleton!

 

 

Is this going to lead to an eternal bone® joke?

[TheChris92]

I just want to romance Tohru Adachi, damnit.

[MisterJB]

What about Obito? When he says he'll take on the entire world so you can be together, it's not a figure of speech.

[Ryzaki]

L was amazing, and I cried when he died. It was a good thing he won before he did, though.

 

[movie can ending FTW]

 

 

Is this going to lead to an eternal boner joke?

 

I admit I like that in the rain scene they added in the anime and not just because I had my yaoi shipper goggles on. It was just so sad. But that armor piercing question he got Light got me

 

Though movie ending was a mutual death right? XD I think I'd preferred it end like that then that weirdo Near and Mello and Matt coming out of nowhere.

 

It wasn't but now....

 

I just want to romance Tohru Adachi, damnit.

 

Oh man I wish I had been able to play female in golden just to kick his creepy ass.

 

Though imagining the accomplice ending as a femPC

 

smh

[Dean_the_Young]

What about Obito? When he says he'll take on the entire world so you can be together, it's not a figure of speech.

 

Yeah, but you're also kind of dead. And he's just brainwashing himself in an overly long and convoluted self-deception.

 

Plus, woobie.

[TheChris92]

Oh man I wish I had been able to play female in golden just to kick his creepy ass.

 

Though imagining the accomplice ending as a femPC

 

smh

Female option would have been neat. In all seriousness, Adachi is one of my favorite villains ever because of lists reasons I''ve summed up in the Persona thread before, but he's probably not what I'd want in a Love interest. What I'd want would be either an Atton kind of character, Mira or Steven Heck of Alpha Protocol (On second thought, maybe not him). It's safe to say that I'm still of the opinion that Obsidian has managed to pull the kind of dark characters we're talking about out best. But Avellone's distaste towards romances are well established, so yeah.

[Lennard Testarossa]

It's amazing how people here apparently thought Bleach might turn out to be good. It's a ****** fighting shounen.