665 réponses à ce sujet

[eyezonlyii]

Ah. I want them to have ideals even if their in opposition. It's part of the appeal for me. The clashing and possible corruption of the PCs ideals by the LI, the whole poisonous friend/lover trope is one I find...interesting.

 

For that level of devotion to the PC all else I'd want some justification, and honestly if there is a story like that I prefer it in the woobie like characters.

 

 

Agreed. Someone who's acting in their self interest, utterly ruthless about it, is aware of that and doesn't suggest the bad past excuse so they can eventually be redeemed by the PC's love/friendship. They are who they are and the PC can't change it only accept it or reject it. But if you do accept it they are a devoted caring lover.

I get what you're saying and it would be very interesting to see, however, I don't see it happening in a Bioware game specifically because they are party based. I say that to mean that whatever the game is about is about the party trying to achieve this goal together, and I don't see how letting the PC fall in love with the villain/be corrupted would translate well. Definitely in a solo game though.

[KainD]

I get what you're saying and it would be very interesting to see, however, I don't see it happening in a Bioware game specifically because they are party based. I say that to mean that whatever the game is about is about the party trying to achieve this goal together, and I don't see how letting the PC fall in love with the villain/be corrupted would translate well. Definitely in a solo game though.

 

The trick is to have half the party be people that wouldn't mind joining the villain as well.

[Ryzaki]

You want a LI who's morals you do not necessarily agree with. I want a LI that doesn't have morals. I'm not sure that a character that doesn't have morals can be a woobie. 

 

True enough.

 

Ah woobies everywhere I'm sure someone could manage it.

 

I get what you're saying and it would be very interesting to see, however, I don't see it happening in a Bioware game specifically because they are party based. I say that to mean that whatever the game is about is about the party trying to achieve this goal together, and I don't see how letting the PC fall in love with the villain/be corrupted would translate well. Definitely in a solo game though.

 

Which is probably why it'd be more likely simply to get a LI companion that was dark and have them turn on the PC at the end if not romanced/friended. That can be done. It's not like a companion turning on you at the end of the game is anything new in a BW game.

 

The corruption can simply be an ongoing process that ultimately determines the ending you get. Plus with the additon of NPC romances the villian ultimately being someone whom you trusted (a military adviser or something that you interacted often with) wouldn't be that farfetched.

[Semyaza82]

   I'd totally be a fan of this, despite also wanting a gay KISA type. Sue me - I'm greedy

   In SWTOR there are a three companions who can be romanced that would fit the idea: Kaliyo (for male Imperial Agents), Jaesa Williams (for male Sith Warriors - so long as you made her darkside) and Andronikos Revel (for female Sith Inquisitor). Admittedly the romances are far less involved in SWTOR (as are companion interactions generally) compared with DA.

[Ap0crypha]

OP: I can think of one LI who fits that description, though he's not from Bioware: Bishop from NWN2.

For those not in the know, Bishop's a ranger/bounty hunter your party hires at one point in the game, and who sticks around after cause the female PC is hot (dunno why he stays for a male). He DOES have a traumatic past, but here's the thing: he doesn't care. You can try and sympathize with him over it and he laughs in your face. It shaped him, but he isn't some Woobie looking for hugs and cuddles, he's an amorral tracker out for himself.

Eventually, of course, he betrays you to the villain (because he's got Chronic Backstabbing Disorder down to a T) and I wasn't even surprised. He made it clear he cared about the fem PC, but he agreed with the villain more. Frankly all I was upset about was that my evil fem PC couldn't ditch the idiots she was with and join him.

At the time, at least. Near the end of the game the Big Bad made her an offer to join him, and she accepted. She and Bishop went back and slaughtered their former companions before becoming the Big Bad's top generals in an Unholy Matrimony sort of way. Riveting stuff XD

Of course then MotB came out and retconned that ending... *grumbles*

[daveliam]

I can definitely see the value in this.  I feel like in the BG/NWN days, they were more willing to have 'bad guys' as companions (and in some cases, LIs -- Viconia, looking at you, girl).  Now, the most we get are morally gray and maybe a little selfish.  It feels like we're about overdue for a Viconia/Bishop type.  I can definitely support this, even if I have almost zero interest in that romance story arc myself.  The more diversity in the stories, the better in my opinion.

[Ryzaki]

OP: I can think of one LI who fits that description, though he's not from Bioware: Bishop from NWN2.

For those not in the know, Bishop's a ranger/bounty hunter your party hires at one point in the game, and who sticks around after cause the female PC is hot (dunno why he stays for a male). He DOES have a traumatic past, but here's the thing: he doesn't care. You can try and sympathize with him over it and he laughs in your face. It shaped him, but he isn't some Woobie looking for hugs and cuddles, he's an amorral tracker out for himself.

Eventually, of course, he betrays you to the villain (because he's got Chronic Backstabbing Disorder down to a T) and I wasn't even surprised. He made it clear he cared about the fem PC, but he agreed with the villain more. Frankly all I was upset about was that my evil fem PC couldn't ditch the idiots she was with and join him.

At the time, at least. Near the end of the game the Big Bad made her an offer to join him, and she accepted. She and Bishop went back and slaughtered their former companions before becoming the Big Bad's top generals in an Unholy Matrimony sort of way. Riveting stuff XD

Of course then MotB came out and retconned that ending... *grumbles*

 

Yeah Bishop is kind of who I was thinking off a bit.

 

I thought he stayed with the male to troll the elf chick? And the knight dude (his name escapes me. I know he was boring as hell) I played male like...once ages ago though.

 

But yeah MoTB didn't even let you keep your LI in the evil ending either (which...can be strange especially if you spent the rest of the game corrupting them. Surely darker Gann shouldn't care about you being the world eater? But for some reason he does and turns on you =/ )

 

I can definitely see the value in this.  I feel like in the BG/NWN days, they were more willing to have 'bad guys' as companions (and in some cases, LIs -- Viconia, looking at you, girl).  Now, the most we get are morally gray and maybe a little selfish.  It feels like we're about overdue for a Viconia/Bishop type.  I can definitely support this, even if I have almost zero interest in that romance story arc myself.  The more diversity in the stories, the better in my opinion.

 

Yeah I'm really mostly tired of seeing the woobie/KISA trope. The vast majority of BW Lis fit into that trope. Still has a lot of drama in it though so no lack of tension.

[TheChris92]

While they weren't really romances since it's Obsidian, but most of their characters have ranged from the sort of characterization I like which I suppose would be interesting were a love story integrated into it but I'm kinda glad it never did -- Because there was a lot of complexity to say the characters in KOTOR 2, even the seemingly Han-Solo-type Atton Rand was interesting -- They are generally all labelled as"horrible people" who've done horrible things or are swaying at the edge of uncertainty in accordance with their own moral compass. The complexity lies in the fact that they don't consider themselves horrible, or what they do to be immoral as society might deam it. 

 

But this thread was about love interests. It's safe to say that I just generally want more complex characters, or gladly crazy-fun ones like Steven Heck, HK-47 etc.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot *punches OP's avi in the face*

[daveliam]

Yeah I'm really mostly tired of seeing the woobie/KISA trope. The vast majority of BW Lis fit into that trope. Still has a lot of drama in it though so no lack of tension.

 

Understandable.  I personally always play as a 'woobie' (?)/KISA type myself, since I'm a goodie-two-shoes in real life, but I am definitely seeing how the majority of recent LI's are the type that you mention. 

 

All of the 'darker' characters (Morrigan, Zevran, Miranda, Jack, Fenris, Anders) have redemption edits (well, maybe not Anders) that allow you to 'save them'.  We haven't had an unapologetic 'bad guy' in a really long time.  I'd Morinth is the closest and we all know how that turns out.

[Ap0crypha]

@Ryzaki: Ah, okay. Sticking around to troll everyone does sound like something he'd do. Knight dude is Casavir and almost as bad as Anomen--less arrogant, more stupid. He kept praising my PC's integrity and I was like "I'm almost as evil as the guy we're fighting, who have YOU been hanging out with?" Worst paladin ever.

Ugh, I know. I love MotB's evil ending too--it's so badass. But noooooo you can't have love and god-like powers, it's gotta be one or the other.

[Ryzaki]

Understandable.  I personally always play as a 'woobie' (?)/KISA type myself, since I'm a goodie-two-shoes in real life, but I am definitely seeing how the majority of recent LI's are the type that you mention. 

 

All of the 'darker' characters (Morrigan, Zevran, Miranda, Jack, Fenris, Anders) have redemption edits (well, maybe not Anders) that allow you to 'save them'.  We haven't had an unapologetic 'bad guy' in a really long time.  I'd Morinth is the closest and we all know how that turns out.

 

Yep. Really hoping the next KISA is m/m only because that means I only have to dodge the woobie bullet to get an LI I prefer

 

Just looking for something different.

While they weren't really romances since it's Obsidian, but most of their characters have ranged from the sort of characterization I like which I suppose would be interesting were a love story integrated into it but I'm kinda glad it never did -- Because there was a lot of complexity to say the characters in KOTOR 2, even the seemingly Han-Solo-type Atton Rand was interesting -- They are generally all labelled as"horrible people" who've done horrible things or are swaying at the edge of uncertainty in accordance with their own moral compass. The complexity lies in the fact that they don't consider themselves horrible, or what they do to be immoral as society might deam it. 

 

But this thread was about love interests. It's safe to say that I just generally want more complex characters, or gladly crazy-fun ones like Steven Heck, HK-47 etc.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot *punches OP's avi in the face*

 

Yeah Atton was pretty good too. But I'm pretty sure you kind of redeemed him if you were LS. That said he got awesome dark if you were DS so I guess that kind of made up for it :3

 

 

WHY CHRIS WHY? Ken always loved you!

 

 

@Ryzaki: Ah, okay. Sticking around to troll everyone does sound like something he'd do. Knight dude is Casavir and almost as bad as Anomen--less arrogant, more stupid. He kept praising my PC's integrity and I was like "I'm almost as evil as the guy we're fighting, who have YOU been hanging out with?" Worst paladin ever.

Ugh, I know. I love MotB's evil ending too--it's so badass. But noooooo you can't have love and god-like powers, it's gotta be one or the other.

 

XD indeed. Needed to learn detect evil.

 

Which is ugh especially since you can still get their evil endings where they can get killed by freaking One of the Many but ra forbid you be able to absorb souls. That's going a step too far. (again I can get this being Dove and Sannay's line in the sand but Gann? He approves of you eating his mother's soul )

[Xilizhra]

No, I don't think this would be a good idea at all. Unless it was a minor LI akin to Kelly--or, arguably, Sebastian. Especially if they're irredeemable.

[Clark]

Along these lines, I think it could be an incredible experience if romances played out with more variance. Sure, Leliana, Liara, and Alistair seem like safe girl/boyfriend material. Characters like Zevran, Isabela, Jack, the Iron Bull..? Less so.

 

I understand that it's a popular fantasy to being the one to tame the wild, dangerous love. And I don't mind having that in the game at some level. But I think it would be fascinating to subvert that trope and balance that with certain LIs that are capable of breaking your trust, even cheating on you with another party member or secondary character for extra drama. Maybe you forgive them and try to make it work. Maybe you kick out one or both of them. Maybe you break up with them but keep them around and try to keep it professional.

 

It would be fascinating to explore the aftermath of relationships that don't work out. Maybe you cave in and hook up again. Maybe you move on, hit it off with another LI. Can you imagine the party banter when you have a new romance and an ex in the party? And whoever the fourth person in the party is, how they'll react to being in the middle of that triangle? Lots of opportunities for humor and heartbreaking moments.

 

Not for every LI. Probably just one. One character who's bad news, but maybe it's the danger is what draws you in, and you get burned by it. Even just one character like this would be a tremendous undertaking. I don't know if this kind of thing would be something Bioware would ever do, because they seem to base most of their design decisions off of wish-fulfillment and power fantasy. 

 

Does anyone else think that would be incredible? 

[Ryzaki]

 

Does anyone else think that would be incredible? 

 

 

I'd have to disagree. I already went through cheating drama once. I rather not do it again. There's a reason I stick to one LI most of the time and it's to avoid the drama. (and when I don't I usually regret it). One Jacob was quite enough.

[Ryzaki]

Maybe Iron Bull? Neither one of his lives are conducive to being a conventionally moral person.

 

And now given his reaction to the assquisitor decision in the trailer I don't think he'll meet the ruthless bit =/ Hell from what I saw no one approved of it. You just didn't get disapproval =/

[Lady Luminous]

I'd love a Mr.Darcy type, before he goes all "I'm really a good person, you should luuurve me Lizzy! *woo*

 

Or Dr. House. As far as I know those two are just antagonist sods who grew up pretty well. 

[Yermogi]

Personally I like the idea of having a romance where the character changes their disposition and outlook on life depending on your choices with him/her. We've had that to some extent, but I think it would be so interesting to see a good character go fully evil because of your influence, or vis-versa. 

 

I'm not saying it has to be easy to do that, but it would still be pretty cool.

[Malkavianqueen]

I would love a darker/evil romance in a Bioware game. It's something I've been wanting since BG2. Time after time, the straight males especially, are either generic nice guy with a sad past or with a dead wife/lover/whatever. My characters who are usually on the more evil side of things end up having to kill them or are so uninterested and opposed in their views a romance never begins. Carth was particularly annoying, "No random citizen! Run from this crazy woman I'm following!"

 

I want a love interest who's darker at the very least. The closest male Bioware LI females had access to was arguably Zevran, since he was an assassin, but even he had a strong sense of morals if you got to know his character.

 

I would love to be able to romance someone like Bishop or even the male equivalent of Morrigan. The main antagonist would be really interesting too, though I have no idea how they would implement that.

[Medhia_Nox]

So long as there's enough characters where I could toss the evil ones and still have a full party - I'm totally cool with them making half the companions grimdarks. 

[Ryzaki]

I would love a darker/evil romance in a Bioware game. It's something I've been wanting since BG2. Time after time, the straight males especially, are either generic nice guy with a sad past or with a dead wife/lover/whatever. My characters who are usually on the more evil side of things end up having to kill them or are so uninterested and opposed in their views a romance never begins. Carth was particularly annoying, "No random citizen! Run from this crazy woman I'm following!"

 

I want a love interest who's darker at the very least. The closest male Bioware LI females had access to was arguably Zevran, since he was an assassin, but even he had a strong sense of morals if you got to know his character.

 

I would love to be able to romance someone like Bishop or even the male equivalent of Morrigan. The main antagonist would be really interesting too, though I have no idea how they would implement that.

 

Same. My evil ladies either end up forever alone or with a KISA boyfriend which...gets awkward. (This is one of the reasons I love JE romances so much. Sky could be just as evil as the PC was). And yeah Carth *facepalms* him ditching mission was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

And yeah even the LIs that look like they'd be dark end up having a heart of gold or something. Meh. Again there's nothing wrong with that it's just it happens so often.

 

Same. I'd want a less stupid evil Morrigan though. In DAO she had some facepalm inducing moments.

[Bugsie]

I struggled with roleplaying anything other than my goody two shoes self, for a long time, still do to a certain degree. I’m a bit less rigid in my structure now but there are corners of rp’ing PCs that I still really have yet to fully ‘enjoy’.

 

One is being truly malevolently evil, even for lulz.

 

Second is not finding certain evil/antihero characters personally repugnant (Loghain, Morinth), even if my PC’s morals are aligned to theirs.

 

Having said that, sounds like an interesting concept, I guess it begs the question, can you make a sociopath likable enough for enough fans to want to do the romance?  I’m not saying it wouldn’t be successful but I keep thinking it would be hard for people to resist the tropes of ‘love conquers all’ or ‘I wanna be a better person’ for the romance to be as you describe.

[Doominike]

It'd need to be more like a FWB than a *love* interest if it's a real evil person. But I'd really like that, doing an evil playthrough and having a "romance" who fully agrees with you to the end. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It'd need to be more like a FWB than a *love* interest if it's a real evil person. But I'd really like that, doing an evil playthrough and having a "romance" who fully agrees with you to the end. 

How does that follow? Being evil doesn't preclude being in love.

[Xilizhra]

How does that follow? Being evil doesn't preclude being in love.

It does, however, almost certainly preclude a healthy relationship.

[Ryzaki]

It does, however, almost certainly preclude a healthy relationship.

 

You say that like all of the relationships we have now are healthy.