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[In Exile]

DA2 killed me withh this. Want to play someone who respects order and authority? Poomf, everyone but Aveline and Sebastian go right out the window (a genocidal hatred of mages also lets you keep Fenris happy). I don't like that at all. I want a varied party where people just flat-out don't get along - not playful banter between Morrigan and Alistair, but actually "I hate you and will leave the group if you are a part of what we're doing" sorts of things - rather than the current big dysfunctional family.

 

Design-wise that's not going to work because it's expensive to script so many different exclusive character branches. 

[KainD]

Mostly, I think people want LIs who are nice to them, with everyone else far more easily falling into the "meh" category. 

 

This.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Well, it's a YMMV whether or not they're a dick. Mostly, I think people want LIs who are nice to them, with everyone else far more easily falling into the "meh" category.

That's the thing though, if someone is such a horrible person, the only reason they could be nice to you is if they simply want to sleep with you or use you. Which is why

 

 

 

 

never date someone rude to waiters

[KainD]

Design-wise that's not going to work because it's expensive to script so many different exclusive character branches. 

 

Design wise you can ditch or not recruit every single character in Inquisition save but one. What branches? 

[Hazegurl]

I'm not referring to your character specifically, but decisions like telling on Mouse in Thane's loyalty quest and killing mages for lulz seem really really out of place. I think someone was talking about stupid evil before

I don't think telling on Mouse does anything significant but then again I think I just rough him up so I wouldn't know. Killing the mages isn't a stupid choice. You've already got the Templars in your back pocket before entering the Circle tower to deal with them.  It's only stupid if the Templars tells you they can't ever join you. Then you would be losing allies for no reason.

[In Exile]

That's the thing though, if someone is such a horrible person, the only reason they could be nice to you is if they simply want to sleep with you or use you. Which is why

 

never date someone rude to waiters

 

That's too simplistic a view of people. Think of it this way: social groups can be very hostile to outsiders (the outgroup) and very caring towards their own members (the ingroup). It's the same on the individual level. A person can be caring - genuinely caring - towards their family and close friends/lover(s), but otherwise entirely indifferent to the vast majority of humans, and otherwise be solely focused on personal advancement. 

 

Some people in this thread are asking for out and out nutter characters - e.g. the violent, psychopathic type - but that's not necessarily what a so-called Dark LI might be like. Again, I use the example of David Xanatos, who should be the prototype for every brilliant villain ever. He clearly cares for his close friend, his wife, and his son. He's also a Magnificent Bastard, which is where the "bad boy" attraction comes from for most people. 

 

Design wise you can ditch or not recruit every single character in Inquisition save but one. What branches? 

 

That's different from how characters interact with each other. The poster was talking about characters actively hating each other. That's like romance jealousy scripts or F/R - it takes a lot of prompt and scripting for content a lot of people won't see. 

[In Exile]

I don't think telling on Mouse does anything significant but then again I think I just rough him up so I wouldn't know. Killing the mages isn't a stupid choice. You've already got the Templars in your back pocket before entering the Circle tower to deal with them.  It's only stupid if the Templars tells you they can't ever join you. Then you would be losing allies for no reason.

 

You don't have the templars in your back pocket. At most, you have Gregoire saying he could probably swing troops in your favour if there are no mages left alive, which requires you to take a substantial loss for your army for the purpose of... what, exactly? The templars are afraid of blood mages, not abominations, and as an amoral/evil PC the fact that there are blood mages about should be irrelevant to you. 

 

Morrigan's reason for killing them is her totally wacko social-Darwinist view. 

[KainD]

That's the thing though, if someone is such a horrible person, the only reason they could be nice to you is if they simply want to sleep with you or use you. Which is why

 

 

 

 

never date someone rude to waiters

 

Just answer this:

What if both are like that? What if both are rude to waiters?

[KainD]

That's different from how characters interact with each other. The poster was talking about characters actively hating each other. That's like romance jealousy scripts or F/R - it takes a lot of prompt and scripting for content a lot of people won't see. 

 

Or they don't want to work with each other and don't want to talk to each other and get a lot less dialogue in other places.

[Hazegurl]

You don't have the templars in your back pocket. At most, you have Gregoire saying he could probably swing troops in your favour if there are no mages left alive, which requires you to take a substantial loss for your army for the purpose of... what, exactly? The templars are afraid of blood mages, not abominations, and as an amoral/evil PC the fact that there are blood mages about should be irrelevant to you. 

 

Morrigan's reason for killing them is her totally wacko social-Darwinist view. 

You have Gregoire's word which is all you've got from any of your allies. The Dalish could decide to pack up and leave, The Dwarves could say, "whelp we need more troops for the deep roads", et al. What are you gonna do in the middle of the Blight, wage war on them for not honoring the treaty? What loss do you take for choosing the Templars over the mages? I've found them very useful. Most of the mages are dead in the tower anyway so you could very well be risking your life and the lives of your party members to save a group of people are in no position to help. Not to mention that saving the mages depends on saving the life of one old man in a place swarming with demons, abominations, and dead bodies. But that is smart over choosing a Templar Commander who has re-enforcements on the way?

 

I don't side with Morrigan out of fear of blood mages, I do because she wants to see them dead and I aim to please, and also because she's right. They let themselves get locked up and now they want to cry cause the people they put their lives in now see no reason to let them live. boo hoo for them. 

[Ryzaki]

To be fair I think the lack of support is Bioware's design obsession with allowing people room for headcannon by never touching on the PC's subjective state. 

 

True but that could be solved with a I'm fine/don't want to talk about it choice

 

And the mage and templar debates...my evil characters tend to side with the mages.

 

For the simple reason that he's gonna get some templars that have to go to supervise the mages. The mages are also walking artilery while the templars against anyone but an emissery is just another guy in a metal suit and he has plenty of those.

 

That and he's a mage so Morrigan's hurr durr let themselves be chained had him facepalming at her ignorance. (Actually I think my evil character is the one who despised Morrigan the most. Her idiocy was just too much. He can tolerate stupid good but stupid evil pisses him off).

[Hazegurl]

@Ryzaki, How dare you call Morrigan an idiot!

 

Stupid good does seem to be far more crazy than stupid evil so I can see an evil PC being okay with it.  As for the usefulness of the mages, if more were Arcane Warriors and not red shirts would be different. Not saying mages are useless, they are very useful. I'd rather have most focused on healing my other forces, weakening enemies, and crowd control rather than straight up attack a la King Calian tactics. Sadly the Army picker let's you pick one force at a time, so stupid during the arch demon fight.

 

@Darth, lol! That would be cool too. Give us a double dark LI. Black and evil.

[Ryzaki]

@Ryzaki, How dare you call Morrigan an idiot!

 

Stupid good does seem to be far more crazy than stupid evil so I can see an evil PC being okay with it.  As for the usefulness of the mages, if more were Arcane Warriors and not red shirts would be different. Not saying mages are useless, they are very useful. I'd rather have most focused on healing my other forces, weakening enemies, and crowd control rather than straight up attack a la King Calian tactics. Sadly the Army picker let's you pick one force at a time, so stupid during the arch demon fight.

 

@Darth, lol! That would be cool too. Give us a double dark LI. Black and evil.

 

If the shoe fits Honestly I played my evil dude expecting him to get along with her. His utter repulsion towards her surprised me.  And everytime I tried to tone it down it was so OOC I couldn't. I think I managed to get him to pretend to like her but even that eventually faded when he was too annoyed to maintain the facade.

 

I imagine the DR was very uh...vicious between the two of them.

 

Except you do get some of the templars with them. Not as much mind but you already have multiple mundane forces to pad that out. That and while my guy was a grade A dick that was his home for all his life and Morrigan's ignorance was just the breaking point. (I do wish I could have him ditch Wynne while keeping her alive though. It's so stupid you're forced to drag her along). I at least justify that as him desiring to learn healing magic since he was tired of Alistair's stupid self needing to be bandaged afterwards so often. Besides I'm fairly certain they were healing and CCing as well the game just doesn't show it.

 

But yeah screw that army picker. The mages there were dumb. I got killed by so many damn fireballs I stopped picking them. Was better off with the dwarves most of the time.

 

Though hell no to black and evil. Nope. DO not want. Have the black guy be the knight in shining armor. I do not want the few black guys we do get tending to be the evil/jerkasses.

[Elissiaro]

I kinda want a straight (or bi) male yandere LI...

He should be kind of a dick to everyone and just not get why we have to help all these people;

"Ugh, why are we helping this stupid village don't we have important inquisition things to do?"  -15 approval

 

But he's always a bit sweet to the inquisitor and you can get the approval back really easily;

"Hey I found this hat I thought would look good on you... I see I was right."  +20 approval

"I guess saving that village gave us a bunch of new soldiers... You were right." +10 approval

 

And then you actually start the romance and he's even more sweet to the inquisitor, but he's worse with the helping people thing. And he starts dissaproving whenever he sees you talking to someone else. Aka talking to someone with him in the party.

And if you ever get the pick one conversation like with Alistair and Zevran, he tries to kill you and the other guy if you don't pick him.

And maybe if you get too much dissaproval he'll begin a heartfelt conversation and if you say the wrong thing he'll also try to kill you.

 

Or I guess I could settle for a guy who just dosen't get helping people, without the yandere... But only if he was still sweet when romanced!

[Gothfather]

Moragan is a dark character. She tried everything to manipulate you into giving her what she wants and then LEAVES the party when she doesn't get it.

 

Anders ah yeah the best villian in the DA2 and one that you can romance, when you see Anders in DA:A compared to the guy sitting down waiting to be judged by Hawke you see the full scope of his devolution.

 

Seems like a Dark Li has been in both previous games of the series.

[Hazegurl]

If the shoe fits Honestly I played my evil dude expecting him to get along with her. His utter repulsion towards her surprised me.  And everytime I tried to tone it down it was so OOC I couldn't. I think I managed to get him to pretend to like her but even that eventually faded when he was too annoyed to maintain the facade.

 

I imagine the DR was very uh...vicious between the two of them.

 

Except you do get some of the templars with them. Not as much mind but you already have multiple mundane forces to pad that out. That and while my guy was a grade A dick that was his home for all his life and Morrigan's ignorance was just the breaking point. (I do wish I could have him ditch Wynne while keeping her alive though. It's so stupid you're forced to drag her along). I at least justify that as him desiring to learn healing magic since he was tired of Alistair's stupid self needing to be bandaged afterwards so often. Besides I'm fairly certain they were healing and CCing as well the game just doesn't show it.

 

But yeah screw that army picker. The mages there were dumb. I got killed by so many damn fireballs I stopped picking them. Was better off with the dwarves most of the time.

 

Though hell no to black and evil. Nope. DO not want. Have the black guy be the knight in shining armor. I do not want the few black guys we do get tending to be the evil/jerkasses.

lol! poor Morrigan. Though I can totally understand her grating on people's nerves. I think Flemeth taught her that in hopes she would have no friends to have her back or something. as for her comments, I'm most likely thinking of it from my Cousland perspective and not a mage warden.  And yeah saying that to a Warden who grew up in the circle is stupid because she's essentially calling him/her cattle as well. lol! That is facepalm worthy. I just see it as Morrigan being so independent to the point of not understanding how anyone could end up in that situation without allowing it to a certain extent.

 

The Army picker just sucks. You can't call multiple forces and can't set tactics. They just come out to mindlessly attack the enemy and get killed.    It would have been nice to see the mages do more than just straight attack until they become a stain on the pavement. Killing them in the circle seems like more of a mercy kill than letting them fight darkspawn. 

 

After the whole Jacob thing I can understand not wanting a black man to be the evil LI. It would be a nice change to have him as the white knight type.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Moragan is a dark character. She tried everything to manipulate you into giving her what she wants and then LEAVES the party when she doesn't get it.

 

Anders ah yeah the best villian in the DA2 and one that you can romance, when you see Anders in DA:A compared to the guy sitting down waiting to be judged by Hawke you see the full scope of his devolution.

 

Seems like a Dark Li has been in both previous games of the series.

 

 

Anders isn't even close. He's whiny, emotionally vulnerable and generally trying to help people. He's basically a good person going off the rails in his desire to give freedom and justice to people he considers oppressed. Both his character and his motivations are thus the precise opposite of what is being asked for.

[Ryzaki]

lol! poor Morrigan. Though I can totally understand her grating on people's nerves. I think Flemeth taught her that in hopes she would have no friends to have her back or something. as for her comments, I'm most likely thinking of it from my Cousland perspective and not a mage warden.  And yeah saying that to a Warden who grew up in the circle is stupid because she's essentially calling him/her cattle as well. lol! That is facepalm worthy. I just see it as Morrigan being so independent to the point of not understanding how anyone could end up in that situation without allowing it to a certain extent.

 

The Army picker just sucks. You can't call multiple forces and can't set tactics. They just come out to mindlessly attack the enemy and get killed.    It would have been nice to see the mages do more than just straight attack until they become a stain on the pavement. Killing them in the circle seems like more of a mercy kill than letting them fight darkspawn. 

 

After the whole Jacob thing I can understand not wanting a black man to be the evil LI. It would be a nice change to have him as the white knight type.

 

Yeah her "you're my first friend" thing always makes makes me a bit sad for her. Then she'll say something stupid evil I'm back to smh. Oh that's fair. My cousland fell in love with her but he was the KISA type. (and thus he felt Flemeth was using her and wanted to protect Morrigan from Flemeth's plot right or wrong and ended up doing the US in a very misguided attempt to keep her safe). But yeah she has facepalm moments like that and telling a City Elf warden to go ahead and kill their father for power. (Seriously my good city elves probably had to restrain from cursing her out). But yeah Morrigan talking from a position of ignorance and acting as though she knew better got on my mage warden's nerves very very quickly. Then there was the there are worse things than death conversation. His opinion of her just dropped lower and lower over the course of the game.

 

Same. But nah it's not a mercy kill I like the mages. They try at least. I just keep them in the back healing in my headcanon while everyone else charges and fights.

 

Yeah I don't know what they were thinking with Jacob. I just...smh.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Well, it's a YMMV whether or not they're a dick. Mostly, I think people want LIs who are nice to them, with everyone else far more easily falling into the "meh" category. 

 

I think it'd be nice to have an LI that isn't nice to the player character. The 'romance' could start off with the LI being semi-nice to the pc just because the LI wants to have sex with or manipulate the pc. It could then develop into something more, but as a start something like that would be rather nice.

 

In short, I think it'd be interesting to have a 'romance' that pretty much leaves out any, well... romance. A relationship that starts out casually, and continues based on mutual respect and usefulness, but without professions of love, tenderness, drama and other such things that commonly show up in video game romances.

 

The reason being that I can't really role-play the typical romances with my 'evil' characters in any other way than head-canoning them lying through their teeth about all the mushy stuff.

[wright1978]

the notion of jerk li doesn't sound good to me. I'm very much for li's with different outlooks(viconia/morrigan) are excellent past examples of this.

[Ryzaki]

the notion of jerk li doesn't sound good to me. I'm very much for li's with different outlooks(viconia/morrigan) are excellent past examples of this.

 

Morrigan and Viconia were very jerky imo.

[StrangeStrategy]

Morrigan was "Dark" but not a villain.
Leliana was a villain, no doubt. She became a good person, but she wasn't always like that.

Zevran was a villain. Continued to be one. He was charming enough that you forgot he really was a bad guy xD

Anders was a terrorist. Nuff said.

Isabela was a pirate with no moral cumpass. Pun intended! (Because Pirates use compasses)

Merrill was a Blood Mage and an Apostate who got her whole clan killed. Not on purpose, but she was so dumb bad stuff happened.

Yeah, we've had "dark" romances... Anders is a freaking tragedy every time.

[RevilFox]

So what you're saying is that you wish HK-47 was a LI? Because seriously...I wish HK-47 was a LI. 

[Ryzaki]

So what you're saying is that you wish HK-47 was a LI? Because seriously...I wish HK-47 was a LI. 

 

more like Canderous really. (I would've preferred Canderous over freaking Carth so much )