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Are story driven rpgs dying?


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#301
Kuse

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I think you tend to find that RPG's are rather age focused, at least that's the way I like to think about it. Older mature gamers I believe enjoy a more story driven experience and will get more out of that than a mindless shooter experience. That being said I think its becoming a more niche market in terms of who wants to invest in a fully featured experience that only Bioware and Bethesda can deliver. 

 

I do wish that more traditional RPGs would exist out there (MMO's do not count) but one can hope that this game will be successful and bring more players into the fold. 



#302
Boboverlord

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Let's say I like playing Skyrim when it is modded and I tried a lot of experimentation. It makes 90% of the fun. After that I went through major quests like fighting Alduin or doing Companion quests, they were so... meh, and my fun significantly reduced. I will put Skyrim in the same category as GTA in terms of how entertainment is produced. Combat itself also isn't fun. TES has well-established lore, but its execution is bad. You can't get any emotional impact from it.

 

When it comes to story, I like Final Fantasy X, Xenosaga, and a lot of visual novels (if they can be counted as games). Yeah some of you might say "those are damn movies in disguise of games, not RPG", but I don't think that good RPGs are separated from good storytelling. By good storytelling I mean good plot + good narration. Skyrim lacks the latter (and for my hated Companion quests, also the former).

 

PS: When it comes to non-action gameplay, I like Final Fantasy Tactics and Command & Conquer games, so they are in the same group of DA:O.



#303
Eudaemonium

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The only origin story that really fits with the main story is the Dalish one. 

 

Probably why it's the 'canon' one.



#304
spinachdiaper

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Technically speaking the Mass Effect franchise has more of a negative impact on RPG design than the Elderscrolls/FO due to the fact that Skyrim, FO3, and Oblivion have been essentially consistant in how much RPG they are, while in contrast after ME1 the ME series turned into a cover shooter with extended dialogue breaks.


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#305
Ieldra

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Maybe it has something to do with spoiler responses.  In other words, if you know the way a conversation is going (and thus, everybody else who is as intelligent as you are knows) they don't want everybody to pick the same option in the third or fourth dialogue wheel.

 

More times than not, it happens anyway...   But they don't want you to know what will be said.  They only want you to know in a short sentence or an idea what will be said.

And this is exactly what destroys roleplaying. What do I know, if not what MY (!!!!) character is thinking? If that's their reason, they really have their priorities screwed up so much that I doubt they could make an otherwise good rpg.


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#306
Guest_Stormheart83_*

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Hmm, all I have seen in this thread is people bashing Skyrim's " boring side quest " let's look at DA:O. The Chanter quests were almost all fetch quests and the quest line for Morigan and Sten wait for it...fetch quest Orzimmar was one big fetch quest. Every RPG is guilty of this in one form or the other. And I'm sorry but the voice acting in DA:O was pretty bad.
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#307
Heimdall

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And this is exactly what destroys roleplaying. What do I know, if not what MY (!!!!) character is thinking? If that's their reason, they really have their priorities screwed up so much that I doubt they could make an otherwise good rpg.

Honestly, at this point I think they're not doing it because they've defended the paraphrase for so long and don't want to go back on that.



#308
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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I agree with you in theory. My problem is when the origin story actively undercuts the main story. A good (non-DA) example of this is the insane injustice of the wall of the faithless in NWN2. The game trolls you the entire time about being able to do something about this, and then it ends with lolnope as an ending to that plotline. Which, depending on your values, could very well have seemed to be the main plot. 

 

Bringing this back to DA:O, the CE story is very much about the racial oppression in Thedas... which just gets almost entirely dropped post Ostagar. You sort of marginally see it again with the Tevinter slavers, but really the whole game shifts tone entirely.

 

The only origin story that really fits with the main story is the Dalish one. 

 

I can't disagree, but I also don't mind either.



#309
xkg

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Technically speaking the Mass Effect franchise has more of a negative impact on RPG design than the Elderscrolls/FO due to the fact that Skyrim, FO3, and Oblivion have been essentially consistant in how much RPG they are, while in contrast after ME1 the ME series turned into a cover shooter with extended dialogue breaks.

 

Couldn't agree more. I loved ME 1 from the very beginning. ME 2 was such a WTF that I coompletely droped this serie after that. I don't even have a clue what ME 3 is about, to this day.


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#310
Pinkcarnation09

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Oh my...

I have over 300 hours with multiple characters logged for Skyrim so I'm jus going to quietly exit this thread now
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#311
BlueMagitek

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Story driven games are fine.  You have a wider audience with more open games, but that doesn't mean there isn't a niche (and a fairly large niche too)!

 

Also, way too much vitrol in the topic. Chill. ~_^



#312
Mecha Elf

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mmm. I dont think that DAI will be on skyrims level of linear. They said so themselves they wont sacrifice their story/character depth for an open world. they just gave us more exploration in a world that was boxed in and boring to the max. I hear The Witcher series is also super story driven, although ive never been interested in the game itself. Perhaps you should try it. I actually feel that Bioware tried to make the characters and story more deep and driven than linear. I just think they improved upon the lack of environments in DA2, and the dull seemingly empty space that DAO had. 



#313
mopotter

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Don't know, but I keep all the games I love just in case.  If there comes a time I can't find a good RPG with the options I want I'll just go back to my stash.

 

KOTOR, JE, DA O, DA2 and hopefully DAI, Morrowind, Skyrim, Divinity, Dragon Dogma, Diablo, Fall Out 3 with dlc, FANV and others for the pc. 



#314
Fearsome1

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To quote Monty Python: "Your Mother was a Hamster and Your Father Smelt of Elderberries."



#315
berrieh

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It was very story-driven indeed, but as for the great story...no. It sacrificed too much of its worldbuilding in order to hammer its themes home, and sacrificed too much consistency and common sense for drama. They attempted a great story, but it proved to be far beyond their competence. Certain parts play as if the writers of a soap opera attempted to write an SF story. Maybe the limited word budget was partly to blame for that, since I know that at least one of them can write better than his parts in ME3 turned out to be, but a great story it was not. It was a story that could've been great.   
 
DXHR had a good compromise. You could see the first sentence of what you would say if you hovered over the selection box. That worked reasonably well, and I don't understand Bioware's adamant refusal to consider it.

 

I think it was one of the best stories I've seen in a video game, especially one with any kind of choice (more freedom = harder to tell a story) of character. I like the DA games better (think DA2 is a better story - not a better game - than DAO), but I think ME3 was the best story of the 3 MEs and a better story than most games have. I don't know how it sacrificed "world-building" -  it was my introduction to the world, and it felt quite immersive, and playing it later, it didn't seem any less consistent in world. It was very big on theme, but I think the best stories are. So that may be a matter of taste. I'm not saying it could be better. Most game stories could be better. But I still enjoy the story of ME3 quite a bit. I've replayed it several times. 

 

I can't imagine how to make a game both a good RPG and fun to watch. Everything that makes a game fun to watch gets in the way of roleplaying.

That a game is fun to watch is a bad sign, in my opinion.

 

Most of the RPGs where I feel most empowered to RP (feel like I can empathize with, inhabit, and put myself in the role) are entertaining to watch. 

 

Maybe... Different people roleplay differently. I like choices, but I am not interested in going against the grain of a game, like some people seem to be. I like Skyrim but it loses my interest a lot because it doesn't really give me a sense of story and character and it lets me do everything, which feels unrealistic to me. Limits are powerful story tools. I'd rather be given something to inhabit and roleplay with that point of view with some choices but also some parameters that are reactive. To me, the ME and DA series both live up to this well. I become Shepard, and she's mine, but she's also her own. I enjoy that. But to each their own. To me roleplay is less "do what you want" and more "inhabit that role and make choices based upon what your given." 

 

I think ME3 could have done more with the choices - made them matter more to the ending - but I understood why it didn't. I'm ultimately fine with it, and I enjoy its cinematic nature. 


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#316
Faerlyte

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Story-driven RPGs are more impressive when the writing isn't garbage. I don't play Bioware games for their outstanding stories. 



#317
Shahadem

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Hmm, all I have seen in this thread is people bashing Skyrim's " boring side quest " let's look at DA:O. The Chanter quests were almost all fetch quests and the quest line for Morigan and Sten wait for it...fetch quest Orzimmar was one big fetch quest. Every RPG is guilty of this in one form or the other. And I'm sorry but the voice acting in DA:O was pretty bad.

 

But Skyrim was side quests. The mage sidequests, assassin sidequests, and thief sidequests were all quite fun to play through. They were all quite a bit better than the main quest, especially because the way that shouting was implemented completely contradicted how shouts should have worked according to the game's story.



#318
Shahadem

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Story-driven RPGs are more impressive when the writing isn't garbage. I don't play Bioware games for their outstanding stories. 

 

Which is funny because many people do play Bioware games for their outstanding stories. Granted Bioware sort of dropped the ball with ME3 and DA2, but they've done quite well throughout their history.



#319
Shahadem

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Couldn't agree more. I loved ME 1 from the very beginning. ME 2 was such a WTF that I coompletely droped this serie after that. I don't even have a clue what ME 3 is about, to this day.

 

Do yourself a favor and don't ever grow curious.


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#320
Shahadem

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I bet the greatest game in history would be one where Bethesda and Bioware joined forces to create a game.  Bethesda creating the massive open world and Bioware creating a compelling story. Make it happen Biothesda!

 

"What's the name of the company we work for?"

 

"This week? Let's see. We were called Pathway Electronics. Then we merged with E-Tech Management. Now I guess we're Path-E-Tech Management."



#321
Guest_Stormheart83_*

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But Skyrim was side quests. The mage sidequests, assassin sidequests, and thief sidequests were all quite fun to play through. They were all quite a bit better than the main quest, especially because the way that shouting was implemented completely contradicted how shouts should have worked according to the game's story.

I totally agree with the statement about the shouts and main story. I guess I'm just weird lol, I have probably 300 plus hours in Skyrim and Fallout 3 I don't even really bother with the factions or story it's just me wandering the wildernesses exploring, helping strangers and plundering tombs and other ancient sites for treasure. I think in a way it's my attempt to live in that world so to speak if that makes any sense.

#322
Guest_Cat Blade_*

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God, I hope not. I thought Skyrim was a terrible game. It lacked anything approaching a coherent plot, two dimensional (if that) characters, laughably wooden voice acting, and boring unintuitive combat. All it had going for it was a large open play area to wander aimlessly around in (which is not something I find particularly fun anyway) and tremendous moddability.


That's how every Elder Scrolls game is. It's kind of a household staple for TES. The pros are the exploration, the ability to physically go everywhere, and the ability to mod it to death. The characters have always been wooden, and Skyrim was one of the first games in TES series that hired a few more voice actors for NPC's. Lol you should see the voice actors in Oblivion or Morrowind.

In a way, I kind of high five Bethesda for not giving a flying rat turd and just clinging to their trusty old formula. Their goal isn't to tell a story as much as it is to puzzle solve, craft, and level up.

I love all varieties of video games. TES has a special place in my heart with its "zero f*cks given" attitude about change.
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#323
Shahadem

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Didn't you know? The hype train leading up to Destiny WAS the game. That's where all the fun was.  That triffling thing we got on the disc was just what was left over after the party died down.

 

Those bastads! They made us pay to clean up their house!

 

55990150.jpg



#324
Han Shot First

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Hmm, all I have seen in this thread is people bashing Skyrim's " boring side quest " let's look at DA:O. The Chanter quests were almost all fetch quests and the quest line for Morigan and Sten wait for it...fetch quest Orzimmar was one big fetch quest. Every RPG is guilty of this in one form or the other. And I'm sorry but the voice acting in DA:O was pretty bad.

 

Sorry, but Bioware and Bethesda games are not even close to being on the same page as far as story and characters go. In Bioware games the main focus is on the characters and story, whereas in Bethesda games the focus is on the game world and the characters and story are a bit of an afterthought. And it shows.



#325
zMataxa

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Sorry, but Bioware and Bethesda games are not even close to being on the same page as far as story and characters go. In Bioware games the main focus is on the characters and story, whereas in Bethesda games the focus is on the game world and the characters and story are a bit of an afterthought. And it shows.

Even the maker or the goddess could not have said it better.