454 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

At its core, Skyrim is what I think CRPGs should be: A big full world in which you can do as you please. I don't even know what Skyrim's story is, but I still love the game. If only Bethesda were better at combat (actually, we know they are, based on Fallout 3, but somehow that didn't make it into Skyrim).

The thing that made BioWare's games great has been their settings (including the characters) and their combat gameplay. So I like that they're moving back toward the exploration model they used in BG, but I dislike that they're moving away from player freedom in terms of character design, and that they seem to want to abandon their market-leading position on combat design to move more toward an action model.

A good story is one you discover, not one that is read to you as you sit quietly.

[Amfortas]

Bioware added exploration elements to Baldur's Gate 1 and Mass Effect 1, both of them my favourites from their respective series. So yeah, I'm glad they're trying that again in Inquisition.

 

Skyrim's story is not particularly good, but I like the fact that it's player defined. I have 3 characters, each with it's own different story, that is compatible with the others. That's not something that I can do in a Bioware game, every playthough is the same storywise, with just some decisions changing. Of course Skyrim has quest mods like interesting npcs that help me not to run out of content with each different playthrough and allow me to customize them even more.

[Ianamus]

I don't remember story-driven RPG's ever being particularly widespread or popular outside of Bioware games. Not in the years I've been playing games, at least.

 

As for Dragon Age in particular, it's easy to say that story and characters are their thing, the most important thing and the thing they need to focus on, but interesting characters and story mean nothing when there is no world for them to interact with or epic scenery to match the epic moments.

 

The final battle with the archedemon would not have worked anywhere except the top of Fort Drakon. Leliana turning on the Warden was far more poignant as it took place over the defiled ashes of her messiah in an ancient, sacred temple. One of my favourite moments in the series, the broodmother reveal was perfectly set at the furthest, darkest reaches of the deep roads. The very political and rather long winded Orzammar segment was balanced perfectly by the interesting, otherworldly atmosphere and architecture which made it feel like you were truly disconnected from the surface.

 

While DA2 had moments and characters that could have been strong it was ruined by taking place entirely in one of the dullest settings I've ever seen in gaming: a bland, miserable and lifeless city.

 

I don't care if they go too far with the adventuring aspect, because it will inevitably lead to moments that DA:2 could never have dreamed of. I want to see Solas's reaction to extravagant elven ruins, have Cassandra question her faith while fighting against Red Templars in a raging blizzard and watch Vivienne manipulate and talk her way through the politics of an Orlesian ball. Those are the instances where the characters and story truly shine, not standing around in a dark room talking or trudging through "the cave" for the twentieth time.

[Naktis]

hmm after reading this article..Im similar to that guy who wrote it...I played myself Skyrim couple times at friend house...and I DISLIKED IT , actually I disliked all elder scrolls series games so far...

 

Now Im gonna wait couple weeks and maybe then I decide if this game is worth buy , ofc for skyrim fan base (which is HUGE) , DAI is a must have..good enhanced skyrim version

[sangy]

Are story driven rpgs dying? No.

 

It takes time to make a quality RPG.  Are there less RPGs in general being made? Probably.  That doesn't mean they're dying off at all.  I don't think there was ever a time "quality" RPGs were being made back to back.  Impatience may make it seem that way.

 

Not every game makes a new copy each year like Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty.

[Spectre Impersonator]

No. This is one of the biggest games of the year and it's a story-driven RPG. The recent success Telltale has had with their almost entirely story-based games is also Telling (Punquisitor  ) about the popularity of drama and choices in gaming.

[skjutengris]

stories live forever if good enough

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=vrlTeoFcf-Q

[bluebullets]

Isn't the same case for DA:I? 150-200 hours to complete, and explore every single bit of it. The story alone is 20-40 hour.

That's wht the dev's said themselves, no reason to not believe that.

150 hrs of fetch quests and wine/cheese caves, and 20 hours of story isn't my idea of what I'd like.

I'd prefer a 60 hour main story, and hold the 100s of hours of finding wine and cheese and gathering herbs.

 

This thread has made me think- rpgs should strive to learn from grand theft auto, not skyrim. GTA did the whole sandbox thing well, with a compelling (well as compelling as a gta game can be) story.

 

I think the generation we are in is ruining games... As another person in this thread referenced his friend who trefused to listen to da:o dialogue but played repeat raids on destiny-

We are a generation of vines, and 15 second videos and absolutely no attention span. this makes me sad.

[redneck nosferatu]

Story-driven RPG's are going nowhere; they're not dying, or fading away. They're just not being pursued as aggressively by the big AAA devs anymore. Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera... all of those are story-driven RPG's. We're on the cusp of an RPG Renaissance, not its death.

 

Inquisition and The Witcher 3 are just the latest evolution of the industry-standard Action RPG into larger focus on exploration, and that's fine. And Skyrim is fine, too; I still play it every day, 4 years after its release.

[Kel Eligor]

On the Skyrim vs. Dragon Age topic... 

 

Apples and oranges - you literally don't have to follow any plot or story in Skyrim; you make your own path in a vast open world. You can be the Dragonborn, the infamous knee-bandit or even a cat-burglar who breaks into people's houses to steal all their spoons if you want. The level of freedom in Bethesda games is absolutely unparalleled in the gaming world, and is closer to a fantasy-life sim than a story-driven RPG. Dragon Age is the later, story and character driven and a completely different pair of shoes in the gaming industry that caters to a different brand of players. 

 

Seriously, there's no comparing the two and it's insulting to tell those players to go "play Call of Duty" when their game arguably offers a far less restrictive brand of role-playing than any Bioware game. 

[xkg]

150 hrs of fetch quests and wine/cheese caves, and 20 hours of story isn't my idea of what I'd like.

I'd prefer a 60 hour main story, and hold the 100s of hours of finding wine and cheese and gathering herbs.

 

This thread has made me think- rpgs should strive to learn from grand theft auto, not skyrim. GTA did the whole sandbox thing well, with a compelling (well as compelling as a gta game can be) story.

 

I think the generation we are in is ruining games... As another person in this thread referenced his friend who trefused to listen to da:o dialogue but played repeat raids on destiny-

We are a generation of vines, and 15 second videos and absolutely no attention span. this makes me sad.

 

And I agree with you about that, completely.

No attention span, just a quick jump in, af ew pews pews and that's all. And it's not limited only to the story. It's easily noticable in the whole gaming thing in general.

 

I mentioned that before, and even gave examples of game manuals few years ago and now.

 

Spoiler

xkg, on 21 Oct 2014 - 2:54 PM, said:
And that is sort of a problem here. Nowadays most players don't have any patience / don't have time ... I don't know why, it is not for me to judge them. But because of that games are getting simplier and simplier. Not many wants to spent some time to learn about the game, its mechanics etc .. etc ...


All I can say ( or rather show ) is this. Compare those 2 cRPGs manuals and fiugure out the rest by yourself.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[IamTheXena]

I, personally, have faith that Bioware will never let the story-driven RPG die as long as they are in business.

[Zakhar]

...I liked Skyrim. Sure it wasn't as good as past Elder Scrolls games but I still liked it.

Thougg I'd never compare even the best Elder Scrolls (Morrowind) to any Dragon Age game or Mass Effect.

It's a different kind of rpg. Look at it this way, Dragon Age: Origins is the vaguely linear plot driven railroad rpg (not that these are bad but a railroad with different tracks is still a railroad)

Skyrim and other Elder Scrolls games are more along the lines of old school tabletop rpgs. You're a hero/adventure and you are dropped into a world.

There's an over arching story but there's tons more on the side to focus on. I played through Oblivion for hundreds of hours and never finished the main story.

It's just a different kind of rpg that won't appeal to everyone.

[Darkly Tranquil]

 Seriously, there's no comparing the two and it's insulting to tell those players to go "play Call of Duty" when their game arguably offers a far less restrictive brand of role-playing than any Bioware game.

I assume that was directed at me since I'm the one who commented on CoD. For the record, I wasn't referring to Skyrim players when I made that remark, I was referring to players who are too lazy to read in games.

[Rawgrim]

I think the only anesthetic mod I use is the Xenius Character Enhancement which only improve textures and eye detail.

 

What can I say, I like muscular, deep-voiced men   

 

I have a deep gravelly voice. Throat injury. Goes well with a norse accent, I hope.

[Rawgrim]

Skyrim is an excelent rpg, really. For roleplaying. The NPC's and quests lack quite a bit of depth, though. That is its main issue. But for sandboxing and roleplaying it is superb. For those who prefer deep interactions with companions and things like that (like me), I can fully understand why they might not like Skyrim.

[bluebullets]

Am i the only one who noticed that every single quest in skyrim sends you the same repeated 2 caves? It is like DA2 without the story... Lol

Anyway, this is NOT a "is skyrim good" or "is skyrim > da"? thread, so please don't turn this into another "da vs witcher" bashing thread. This is just about story driven RPGs, their marketshare, and if they are losing their way, etc.

[Keroko]

150 hrs of fetch quests and wine/cheese caves, and 20 hours of story isn't my idea of what I'd like.

I'd prefer a 60 hour main story, and hold the 100s of hours of finding wine and cheese and gathering herbs.

Very RPG's have a 60 hour main story. Even Origins probably scores somewhere in the 20's at most. The rest of the timer is filled with side-quests and backtracking.

[Rawgrim]

The various guild storylines in Elder Scrolls games tend to be way more interesting than the main story, I think. The Dark Brotherhood ones in particular.

[ForgottenWarrior]

Of course no. If there is a demand then there will be an offer. So, assuming there still will be those who will be ready to buy a story driven prg's then those games never die. Bioware is very sensitive to other studios successes so it's not that surprising they currently looking at Skyrim. A game that had so huge success made its point.

[MarchWaltz]

Story driven rpgs WITH CHARACTER CREATORS might be...I hate when rpg games based around decisions do not let you create your own unique character, just forces a bland character down your throat. 

[Meltemph]

The various guild storylines in Elder Scrolls games tend to be way more interesting than the main story, I think. The Dark Brotherhood ones in particular.

The main storylines always have a lot more depth to them then it appears, but they always hide them in books. I dont understand it, the metaphysical aspects of ES is so good, it boggles my mind, why they dont incorporate it more into the mainstream of the game, instead of hiding the meaning behind everything in books(dont get me wrong I love reading the books, but still).

[dlux]

The various guild storylines in Elder Scrolls games tend to be way more interesting than the main story, I think. The Dark Brotherhood ones in particular.

The Dark Brotherhood questline was actually pretty good in Skyrim. Actually, I think it was the only good questline in the entire game.

[bluebullets]

Very RPG's have a 60 hour main story. Even Origins probably scores somewhere in the 20's at most. The rest of the timer is filled with side-quests and backtracking.

if you can beat DA:O in 20 hours without skipping dialogue, I'll personally mail you a chocolate bar of your choice.

[Rawgrim]

The main storylines always have a lot more depth to them then it appears, but they always hide them in books. I dont understand it, the metaphysical aspects of ES is so good, it boggles my mind, why they dont incorporate it more into the mainstream of the game, instead of hiding the meaning behind everything in books(dont get me wrong I love reading the books, but still).

 

I agree. I think it is because they are making the stuff they put in the books rather optional, for players who are particularly interested in it. I can see how it might be overwhelming if they added all that information into dialogues and the like. The amount of information in those books are mindblowing.