52 réponses à ce sujet

[Big T]

To start off, I have 25 playthroughs completed dlc included, every achievement, seen every possible outcome choices, and read every book. So when I say that there is no bad guy, it is a thought out opinion and not some person striving for attention. There is no bad guy. The reapers aren't even evil, they were created to figure a way to end the conflict between organics and synthetics to preserve both sides in peace, the only outcome they came across was to stop the conflict by harvesting both sides and preserving their Genetic and Synthetics codes on a platform where there was no conflict. It was a loophole that was unforeseen by Leviathan but was acceptable in the AI mind. Please also note that someone's own ambition does not make them evil. Santiago turning on Zaeed was not evil, he seen the way he wanted his company to go and Zaeed wouldn't allow it, so he removed him so his company could grow and make more money.

[Ledgend1221]

No, I'm pretty sure they're evil.

[Big T]

No, I'm pretty sure they're evil.

Where is your evidence. My evidence lays with Leviathan and their goal. I want debate not just statement.

[Jerkules17]

There's criminals through out the series who are bad like that doctor in one,plus everyone's favorite four eye punching bags. Still those Leviathans still seem like real jerks. Can renegade Shepard count?   

[Ledgend1221]

Where is your evidence. My evidence lays with Leviathan and their goal. I want debate not just statement.

It's kind of hard to debate it when they just kill everyone in the galaxy.

Oh sure, good intentions and all that. Everyone in human history had good intentions.

[Cknarf]

The reapers aren't even evil, they were created to figure a way to end the conflict between organics and synthetics to preserve both sides in peace, the only outcome they came across was to stop the conflict by harvesting both sides and preserving their Genetic and Synthetics codes on a platform where there was no conflict. 

Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!

[SporkFu]

Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!

Win. 

 

EDIT: After reading the thread in the ME3 forum about the ME4 protagonist being shep's child, I needed a laugh. Thank you. 

[AlanC9]

"Evil" isn't a useful term anyway.

[RanetheViking]

Santiago shooting Zaeed in the head wasn't evil? 

 

Just bidness' yo!

[CptFalconPunch]

To start off, I have 25 playthroughs completed dlc included, every achievement, seen every possible outcome choices, and read every book. So when I say that there is no bad guy, it is a thought out opinion and not some person striving for attention. There is no bad guy. The reapers aren't even evil, they were created to figure a way to end the conflict between organics and synthetics to preserve both sides in peace, the only outcome they came across was to stop the conflict by harvesting both sides and preserving their Genetic and Synthetics codes on a platform where there was no conflict. It was a loophole that was unforeseen by Leviathan but was acceptable in the AI mind. Please also note that someone's own ambition does not make them evil. Santiago turning on Zaeed was not evil, he seen the way he wanted his company to go and Zaeed wouldn't allow it, so he removed him so his company could grow and make more money.

 

What is evil exactly in your mind? Evil is subjective. For me, killing billions, trillions because someone "knows better" is evil. They don't think its evil, and it is perfectly fine to empathize.

 

You think every bad guy ever thinks he is evil? Like they wake up and go "Yawn, what a great day to be evil".

 

Of course not, they think they're good. The problem here isn't so much with mass effect but with your perception of evil mate. Even Hitler thought he was doing the good.

[DrBlingzle]

Evil is all a matter of perspective.

And my perspective is that killing trillions upon trillions of innocent people based on dodgy evidence at best, is certainly evil.

[Coming0fShadows]

 Please also note that someone's own ambition does not make them evil.

That is a very disturbing idea, if ones ambitions lead them to certain actions.. as they no doubt do.

Also is this an attempt to create a giant moral debate? Sure looks like it.

[DrBlingzle]

Santiago turning on Zaeed was not evil, he seen the way he wanted his company to go and Zaeed wouldn't allow it, so he removed him so his company could grow and make more money.

So you're basically saying shooting someone in the face because they're in the way of you making money, isn't evil?

Interesting.

[themikefest]

25 playthroughs. Not bad.

[DeathScepter]

do you realize that this guy is either an idiot or a troll?

 

 

*gets the popcorn out*

[SporkFu]

25 playthroughs. Not bad.

You forgot to add... "for a rookie" 

[MegaIllusiveMan]

do you realize that this guy is either an idiot or a troll?

 

 

*gets the popcorn out*

 

[ReptiloidGod]

You don't consider the Reapers, Saren or Cerberus as evil?

[SwobyJ]

Everyone is the bad guy. Everyone is the good guy. Give it timeee.

[Big T]

Not trolling, more of a perceptual stand point. I do not see Cerberus as evil, they started out with a goal that was a noble idea with less than ethic ways of going about it. Take the Pragia project, he wanted stronger biotics and gave them freedom to do as pleased. They feared TIM, so they went to extremes to do it, failure is not an option and he would have none, so they did bad things for him, while he was working towards the goal of defending humanity, they went rogue. The real bad things started when the reapers took control of him, at that point he is a puppet nothing more. The reapers are following their programming, programmed for peace. Is it evil for a synthetic to so what they were programmed to do. The were programmed by the intellegence, which points that the intelligence is evil, but it was completing a problem that it was given, stop organic and synthetics from fighting and preserve both races. Which means keep both sides. The most logical answer was harvest both sides, they failed to it in the equation to keep them alive. They are preserving the DNA of both sides, they are not doing it cause they are evil, they are trying to help, but they are so cosmic that they do not see the flaw of gathering these "ants".

[Newnation]

They did have a bad guy but then they screwed it in the final act of ME3....Actually, they screwed everything up in the final act of ME3.

[Big T]

They did have a bad guy but then they screwed it in the final act of ME3....Actually, they screwed everything up in the final act of ME3.

I like to think Marauder Shields is the true hero, and the indoctrination theory.

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

There is a bad guy, his name is Mac Walters

[BloodyMares]

Nice thought If you dismiss the term 'evil' altogether. Nobody does bad things because they want to be bad (only in stories for children maybe). Even the most terrible a-holes think they're doing good things or things that 'have to be done'. It's a matter of personal perception or if talking about synthetics, programming code. It's a common (or not so common) knowledge.

But if you consider being 'Evil' as being the one 'who does things that are morally wrong' then most of characters in ME universe can be called 'evil'. If not everyone. And doing things that are morally wrong can be conscious or unconscious. If we're judged in a court, people will judge things that we did and not thoughts that we thought. Sure, Reapers are not evil, it's not their fault that they don't seem to be able to upgrade their software and to find a better way of solving organic-synthetic conflict. But Leviathans started all this then it's safe to assume that they were evil. In truth they were stupid (like quarians were) but they could just choose not to ask an AI to find a solution. So they are the main villains of ME universe.

[capn233]

"Evil" isn't a useful term anyway.

 

 

Evil is all a matter of perspective.

 

Yeah the Reapers just have the "will to power."  Beyond Good and Evil and all that.