29 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Warning: this will contain spoilers for the Dragon Age comics.

Those who read them will remember how Magister Titus wished to use the Theirin's dragon blood to power the Magrallen, an ancient Dreamer device, believing this would allow him to shape the very souls of every personagem in Thedas só as to make every non mage in Thedas entirely subservient to Tevinter so they could be ruled with impunity and thank Titus for it. He even claimed it was possível to make it só they forget the Chant and Qun ever existed.

However, what if the Magrallen was used, yes, but to remove the negative aspects of people? Greed, jealousy, violence, etc.
Alistair is still alive, in Bioware's cânon at least. He hás the blood needed.

[Reznore57]

Mmmm...I think this device is like a massive mind control spell .

Even if you want to do something "good" with it , you're still toying with people's mind.

 

And I'm not sure how far you can go with this , erasing information is one thing , what you describe is changing the way people experience emotions.

Not sure it's possible.

[Silcron]

This sounds like the DA version of the ME3 Control Ending. It's the greater good vs freedom, if they remove parts from you are you still you debates.

I'm personally against it, that's all I'll say (after all I did just mention what-must-not-be-mentioned, sorry about opening that can of worms)

[Darkly Tranquil]

Who has the right to decide what is "good" or "bad" for every soul in Thedas? I don't anyone deserves that kind of power.

[Blue Item]

Too many assumptions and ideal scenarios.

 

One, the device has to be able to specifically regulate human behaivor (you can't just remove all violence, as it does everything from providing food through hunting and fishing to protection from everything on Thedas trying to kill you), and greed can be a positive quality if it promotes self-improvement.

 

Two, we basically need a messiah to determine what is good and bad. But even if we had such a messiah, they'd pretty much necessarily only be able to perfectly capture what is good and bad in a specific society, not worldwide -- clearly Qunari have different ideas on morality than, say, dwarves.

 

Thirdly, and this purely an ethics question, but if we removed all the bad in the world, wouldn't we also devalue all of the good?

[MisterJB]

Regarding the capabilities of the Magrallen, let us remember that it works through the Fade and that severing one's connection the Fade destroys emotions. It is, therefore, not implausible that a device capable of manipulating would be able to alter the way people feel.

Also, Magister Mae said that Titus intended to rule the "ungifted" with impunity and be thanked for it which implies the Magrallen is capable of changing the very way people reason.

 

I believe the real question here is wether it is ethical to brainwash the world's entire population if it is for the sake of peace.

[Master Warder Z_]

Who has the right to decide what is "good" or "bad" for every soul in Thedas? I don't anyone deserves that kind of power.

 

For too long has the throne of heaven been vacant; this unending silence will finally be broken.

 

I will set upon the throne.

 

Something a few of my planned Inquizzies would say...the scary bit is only one is a mage.

[Master Warder Z_]

it is ethical to brainwash the world's entire population if it is for the sake of peace.

 

Is it ethical?

 

Hell no; would i do it?

 

In a heart beat.

[The Baconer]

Blood Magic and mind control is bad, except when it's not.

[raging_monkey]

Im pro mage and pro blood magic... but this is just not a option. I mean yeah id BM a bandit or a politician to give money, but the scale we are talking about is... madness

[Master Warder Z_]

Blood Magic and mind control is bad, except when it's not.

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

This isn't done for petty politics or office, personal power or station.

 

Its the removal of all the disjointing greed and individuality that cripples the world, its the unifier that is needed.

 

Plus this way, there doesn't have to be a series of massive wars to unite the continent into an Empire.

 

o.o i feel sort of like a Templar now...the Illuminati kind...not the Dragon Age kind.

[The Baconer]

Its the removal of all the disjointing greed and individuality that cripples the world, its the unifier that is needed.

 

Assuming, of course, that you're a mage (perhaps even a Dreamer no less) who would actually use it in this manner.

[Face of Evil]

For me to debate what the Magrallen could be used for, I need to know what it can do. Even the comic is somewhat vague on this point.

[raging_monkey]

Assuming, of course, that you're a mage (perhaps even a Dreamer no less) who would actually use it in this manner.

its still a bad idea

[MisterJB]

its still a bad idea

To give the world everlasting peace?

[raging_monkey]

To give the world everlasting peace?

negative emotions are what makes us people. All the worse things in human nature good or bad is what makes us "us", i want peace as much as the next but it must be done willingly not because of some dues ex machina device. I'd take suffering, pestilence, greed, hate.. all of it because it means im "alive". Whats being described is a police state where if somebody get a "bad" thought they get wiped to conform to a dubious ideal

[Master Warder Z_]

Assuming, of course, that you're a mage (perhaps even a Dreamer no less) who would actually use it in this manner.

Indeed.

That said I'm not unconvinced a non magi could accomplish usage of the device.

[riverbanks]

However, what if the Magrallen was used, yes, but to remove the negative aspects of people? Greed, jealousy, violence, etc.

 

Removing certain aspects (whether positive or negative) of people's personalities at one's own whim and personal judgement of what is a good or bad emotion to have is also commonly known as brainwashing, and generally frowned upon as a cruel exercise in hubris.

[raging_monkey]

Removing certain aspects (whether positive or negative) of people's personalities at one's own whim and personal judgement of what is a good or bad emotion to have is also commonly known as brainwashing, and generally frowned upon as a cruel exercise in hubris.

i agree some much +200 approval

[Jazzpha]

Sounds oddly similar to making someone Tranquil, as far as forcible emotional manipulation goes.

[themugen]

I think what makes us unique is everything taken as a whole; the good AND the bad,  So, for me, it'd suck.

[raging_monkey]

Let it to madmen to make devices like these

[Master Warder Z_]

Honestly it'd be the only good thing to come out of Tevinter.

[raging_monkey]

Honestly it'd be the only good thing to come out of Tevinter.

id argue magic in general a pre-circles before modern laws but its tuesday lol.

Why are even considering using this evil device. I dont always agree with templars but this is something i can agree with on destroying it and those who know how to create it... we might as well use tranquil solution for mundanes and magi if genuinly consider this

[The Baconer]

Honestly it'd be the only good thing to come out of Tevinter.

 

Over Adralla and the Imperial Highway?