534 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltemph]

These are two I remembered off top. Do you want me to list more? And there is more. I can do that, but it seems pointless since your intent is to make DA:O look like a shitty game regardless of whatever examples I bring up. Or you know, you could do it yourself. 

Well sure, but I think the premise from some was, it being decidedly different in DA2 and will be different in DA:I. I remember there were quite a few side quests in DA2 that you also had decisions to make. I mean are we doing by ratio or a numbers game to find the special amount? I dont think they were attacking DAO, but more putting into perspective the "fears" of the side quests.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

These are two I remembered off top. Do you want me to list more? And there is more. I can do that, but it seems pointless since your intent is to make DA:O look like a shitty game regardless of whatever examples I bring up. Or you know, you could do it yourself. 

I think what they're pointing out is that it's easy to cherrypick examples in either direction - in favour of depth in DAO and against depth in DAO.  

 

I'll agree that the fact that these reviewers only mentioned the shallower quests disturbed me.  I was less disturbed though, given how many other facts they simply got wrong, which is why I didn't take the video seriously.  Perhaps I would have trusted their judgement in this area if it had been clearer in others.  As it is, it looked like, as with other areas, they cherrypicked to make it look worse than Origins, as azarhal cherrypicked to make DAO look bad.  

[Melca36]

These complaints on this post sound like some of you want everything handed to you in a game.

 

Games are NOT meant to be easy.

 

Its your right if you want a game where enemies materialize from the ceiling but for $70 some of us want to play a game and we don't want everything easily given to us.   

[AllThatJazz]

Criticism is a good thing, but this guy seems to have some wrong information. There are ways (barrier, for example, which he never mentions) to manage aggro without just moving your mage; doesn't he say you can have more potions than in Origins? Which you can't; you've definitely always been able to revive in combat and can still do so; there are healing spells, just not ones you can spam; and from various livestreams etc we know there is at least one quest in the Hinterlands that has you make a decision  -

Spoiler

it involves bandits, and either wiping them out, or crafting a totem and challenging the leader so the other bandits will join the Inquisition. 

Sounds like a decision to me. Maybe the guy didn't find that one?

 

There were a few different tiers of sidequests in DAO/DA2 - big meaty ones that involved cutscenes and decisions; smaller dialogue-based ones that could have different outcomes; and fetch quests (bring me 10 injury kits/mana potions/elfroot/trap kits/zombie brains - all of which were actual quests in Origins) - it seems this previewer has only seen the latter, and is concerned that those are all that exist. Whereas he's maybe forgotten that they also existed in DAO because there were also a fair few good sidequests. It's a valid concern, but not necessarily one that will pan out.

 

To counter a little, Shinobi over on NeoGAF (the guy is someone with a seemingly good deal of insider info, and he knows people who are playing the review copies not just the first few hours), quoted this from one of his sources:

 

'Paraphrasing from a friend playing it:

'The amount of things you can do is overwhelming (in a good way). The writing is great, and even trivial sidequests feel meaningful because of the power system.'


So I asked a little about the seemingly 'useless' sidequests that Videogamer felt they had to do, and they seem to feel a little differently:

'Sure some are certainly mundane ("collect 10 plants"), but there are A LOT of interesting ones.'


They said there's definitely the awesome sidequests found in DAO/DA2 with interesting dialogue trees, unique characters, etc. They also love playing around in Skyhold.'

 

Here's the link to the thread if you want to take a look: http://www.neogaf.co...=922171&page=21

 

I don't agree with unnecessarily gushing praise for the sake of hype, but nor am I good with assuming the worst and getting information wrong, which is what happened here in a few cases. Balance, please! 

[dlux]

After watching the previews I had the impression that the quest design is rather uninspired and essentially just very simple in design, i.e. there are way too many fetch and FedEx quests. It worries me to hear that somebody who actually played the game has the same opinion.

[Melca36]

am i seriously the only person thats looking forward not to having a designated healer? i mean, think about it, it pretty much requires your mage to be on top of healing at all times, id rather have the barrier and guard effects while managing potions, why? because its more strategic and tactical and requires more depth and thought than previous games

I have no issues with that.    I play Guild Wars 2 with no healer.  I'll be able to play this game too. The problem is people hate change.

[Melca36]

After watching the previews I had the impression that the quest design is rather uninspired and essentially just very simple in design, i.e. there are way too many fetch and FedEx quests. It worries me to hear that somebody who actually played the game has the same opinion.

 

And to me it looks better than what we had in DA2 which was ridiculous.

[Darkly Tranquil]

In preparation for Inquisition, I have recently replayed Origins, Awakening, and DA2.

I firmly believe that many people look at Origins with rose-colored glasses and some serious memory bias.

For its time, Origins was an amazing game; full of depth and player choice and all that goodness. But in modern times, it really is showing its age. The dialogue and characterization is sub-par, the combat is absolutely atrocious, and honestly large parts of it are completely forgettable. I even played with a ton of mods which improved the game significantly.

Reviews like this one going around really highlight my point. NPC's recognized your race? Hardly at all. Origins was very deep in its efforts to make each race feel different? Except for the short prologues; not at all.

It seems that fans have turned Origins into an idol of perfection. Any valid criticism simply cannot exist; for Origins was perfection defined. This is a self-defeating way to think.

I've been playing Origins again recently too. I find it as fun and engaging on the 20th run as I did on any other, and I am still finding bits of dialogue I have not heard before, which shows it's immense depth of replayability. Obviously it comes down to personal preference, but I prefer DAOs slower paced combat style to DA2's Awesome Button, and I think the dialogue is fine; however I will grant you that the graphics are showing their age and that some of the voice acting on some minor characters was weak, but overall I think it still stands up. I can honestly say that in the 30 years I have been gaming (Apple IIe 4tw) no game has grabbed and held my attention like DAO. As for DA2, I barely dragged myself through two playthroughs before I stopped caring about any of the characters or what happened to Hawke or Kirkwall. Otoh, I never stopped caring about Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, and co.

Out of interest, what example would you cite as a recent RPG that makes DAO look dated (in terms of depth of interactivity)?

[azarhal]

I think what they're pointing out is that it's easy to cherrypick examples in either direction - in favour of depth in DAO and against depth in DAO.  

 

I'll agree that the fact that these reviewers only mentioned the shallower quests disturbed me.  I was less disturbed though, given how many other facts they simply got wrong, which is why I didn't take the video seriously.  Perhaps I would have trusted their judgement in this area if it had been clearer in others.  As it is, it looked like, as with other areas, they cherrypicked to make it look worse than Origins, as azarhal cherrypicked to make DAO look bad.  

 

Actually, I was just pointing out that DAO also had a lots of quests of the same type the DAI previewer was complaining about.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Actually, I was just pointing out that DAO also had a lots of quests of the same type the DAI previewer was complaining about.

Eh, you say oyster, I say erster.  Actually, no-one says that.  Ginger Rodgers, you've done me wrong.  

[JimBlandings]

In preparation for Inquisition, I have recently replayed Origins, Awakening, and DA2. 

 

I firmly believe that many people look at Origins with rose-colored glasses and some serious memory bias. 

 

For its time, Origins was an amazing game; full of depth and player choice and all that goodness. But in modern times, it really is showing its age. The dialogue and characterization is sub-par, the combat is absolutely atrocious, and honestly large parts of it are completely forgettable. I even played with a ton of mods which improved the game significantly.

 

Jesus Christ almighty.  DA:O is FIVE YEARS old.  It hasn't even got pubes yet, you gnat.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Unfortunatelly the age of actual Bioware RPGs with tons of dialogues and choices seems to be gone. Now it's all ActionRPGs with dialogue wheel and less power over PC
Still, DA:I seems to be a good game, better than DA2, thankfully

I think you're jumping to conclusions based off of only the first hour of the game. Also, the game has a ton of chioces. Have we been following the same game here?

[Melca36]

In preparation for Inquisition, I have recently replayed Origins, Awakening, and DA2. 

 

I firmly believe that many people look at Origins with rose-colored glasses and some serious memory bias. 

 

For its time, Origins was an amazing game; full of depth and player choice and all that goodness. But in modern times, it really is showing its age. The dialogue and characterization is sub-par, the combat is absolutely atrocious, and honestly large parts of it are completely forgettable. I even played with a ton of mods which improved the game significantly. 

 

Reviews like this one going around really highlight my point. NPC's recognized your race? Hardly at all. Origins was very deep in its efforts to make each race feel different? Except for the short prologues; not at all. 

 

It seems that fans have turned Origins into an idol of perfection. Any valid criticism simply cannot exist; for Origins was perfection defined. This is a self-defeating way to think.

 

 

Um...........Origins came out in 2009 not 1999.   5 years is not a long time.

[janddran]

Here are some choices for thought:

1. Expect the worst so that you can be pleasantly surprised.

2. Enjoy the anticipation of release day because so few games are worth getting excited about.
3. Remember that "everyone" said DA 2 was bad. Yet I have had great fun playing it. (Use your own example)

4. Avoid pre-release reviews and at least wait until after the game is released to start complaining.

 

No ill intent is meant. Regards.

[TinySquid]

I've been playing Origins again recently too. I find it as fun and engaging on the 20th run as I did on any other, and I am still finding bits of dialogue I have not heard before, which shows it's immense depth of replayability. Obviously it comes down to personal preference, but I prefer DAOs slower paced combat style to DA2's Awesome Button, and I think the dialogue is fine; however I will grant you that the graphics are showing their age and that some of the voice acting on some minor characters was weak, but overall I think it still stands up. I can honestly say that in the 30 years I have been gaming (Apple IIe 4tw) no game has grabbed and held my attention like DAO. As for DA2, I barely dragged myself through two playthroughs before I stopped caring about any of the characters or what happened to Hawke or Kirkwall. Otoh, I never stopped caring about Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, and co.

Out of interest, what example would you cite as a recent RPG that makes DAO look dated (in terms of depth of interactivity)?

 

Personally, I found ME2 (my favorite) and ME3 to be superior in such instances. I don't let the horrific ending of 3 affect my views on the game as a whole. Now, part of that is because it is a trilogy; and it may be unfair to compare it to a single game. But when I take each individual one and try that, I still find them to be superior.

I noticed you said that you have been playing games for 30 years. I believe that is why we disagree. I do not mean that as a negative; it is not. But as an individual who isn't even 30 years old yet, my preferences and tastes will be different than older generations. That is the beauty of video games; the amount of content to appeal to all types of gamers.

 

Edit: You mentioned you never stopped caring about Alistair. My last Origins play through was a human female noble. This was my Alistair and lover.

 

http://static-1.nexu...-1363420782.jpg

[TinySquid]

Um...........Origins came out in 2009 not 1999.   5 years is not a long time.

 

Compounding advancement. All technology is seeing this; video games are not immune.

[Chari]

I think you're jumping to conclusions based off of only the first hour of the game. Also, the game has a ton of chioces. Have we been following the same game here?

Voice acting always results in less choices. Resources aren't limitless - something has to become smaller so the other things can be enlarged

[Face of Evil]

seriously, looking through the Chantry board quests again there where literally quests that where just "go here, kill X Bears or Y Spiders, return for Gold"

 

They weren't even particularly tough bears.

[Applepie_Svk]

Not happening, and I am VERY GLAD about that.

 

Cause I'd rather have DA2-2 (which DAI isn't) than DAO2.

 

 

People want games to improve, but they don't want it to change.

 

And yes, I'd rather have a DA2-2 than a DAO-2.

 

So you guys would rather to have again a game with repeating locations, recycled few times in each act, with messed up storytelling and enemies popping out of nowhere. Good for you... I guess... LoL

I had fun with DA2, but I do have a fun with BF3 or WoT, but I fell in love with DA:O quality.

 

DA:O had slow combat, but overall whole immersion was lot better, even if there was a silent protagonist, I had never such a connection with game, only with KOTOTR, ME1 and DA:O, which were all about storytelling, doing world believable, not just doing world to be a fandom...

[Milan92]

So you guys would rather to have again a game with repeating locations, recycled few times in each act, with messed up storytelling and enemies popping out of nowhere. Good for you... I guess... LoL

 

DA:O had slow combat, but overall whole immersion was lot better, even if there was a silent protagonist, I had never such a connection with game, only with KOTOTR, ME1 and DA:O, which were all about storytelling, doing world believable, not just doing world to be a fandom...

 

Ofcourse not. It would need some improvements ofcourse.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I noticed you said that you have been playing games for 30 years. I believe that is why we disagree. I do not mean that as a negative; it is not. But as an individual who isn't even 30 years old yet, my preferences and tastes will be different than older generations. That is the beauty of video games; the amount of content to appeal to all types of gamers.

I'm only 38. Now I feel ancient... I did start gaming in primary school, so I'm not that old!

But perhaps my having played for so long means I am less sensitive to changes in graphics from one platform to another. I started playing before graphics were even really a major feature of games, so fancy graphics don't impress me at all. My experience is that good game design can exist without flash graphics, and that games that focus too much on visual flare often lack substance beneath the surface. Some of the most compelling games I have played were on platforms that would be considered primitive by today's standards (Apple IIe, Sega Master System, Commodore Amiga). But I have noticed younger gamers, who never experienced life before modern gaming (from PS1/Xbox onwards) are much more particular about features like graphics and sound than us old codgers who are just happy to have graphics at all. So while DAO seems old to you, Frogger seems old to me, which makes the difference between DAO and newer games much less significant to me.

[Shylocken]

I'm only 38. Now I feel ancient... I did start gaming in primary school, so I'm not that old!

But perhaps my having played for so long means I am less sensitive to changes in graphics from one platform to another. I started playing before graphics were even really a major feature of games, so fancy graphics don't impress me at all. My experience is that good game design can exist without flash graphics, and that games that focus too much on visual flare often lack substance beneath the surface. Some of the most compelling games I have played were on platforms that would be considered primitive by today's standards (Apple IIe, Sega Master System, Commodore Amiga). But I have noticed younger gamers, who never experienced life before modern gaming (from PS1/Xbox onwards) are much more particular about features like graphics and sound than us old codgers who are just happy to have graphics at all. So while DAO seems old to you, Frogger seems old to me, which makes the difference between DAO and newer games much less significant to me.

 

Original X-Com on Sega CD32! Man... what memories.

 

Nice graphics is a plus, But I agree that graphics can't save a bad game.

[yullyuk]

Healers are a crutch, you don't need them.

couldnt agree more, pretty much what i said tbh, but healers force a mage into a specific role, at least this way it mitigates some of problem inherent with mage healing

[WillieStyle]

Im 35 and I've played almost every major RPG from Fallout 1 and BG1 to DA2 and the Witcher. I always roll my eyes when someone my age or older complains about the lack of "depth" in modern games. They typically yearn for the more "tactical" slow-paced games of yore. But having slow reflexes isn't the same as appreciating depth. ME3's combat had FAR more depth than BG2 for instance.

Nostalgia and slow gameplayay appeal to you, but they aren't virtues in and of themselves. Needless to say I'm thoroughly excited by everything I've seen of DAI.