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[wcholcombe]

So this thread has turned into "lets tear down Origins to prop-up Inquisition"...yikes.

 

Origins is one of the most heralded games of the last decade and you people are dragging it through the mud in defense of a game that is a complete question-mark at this point.

 

Embarrassing.

Who exactly is dragging it through the mud?  We are merely responding to the people who are propping it up as the be all end all rpg experience. No one is saying it wasn't a good game, but many of the criticisms people are laying at DAI were just as present in DAO.

 

Meaninigless sidequests(I actually think DAI ties them in better), not being able to talk to everyone(literally 80% of the characters in DAO you couldn't have a conversation with), and I am still waiting for someone to tell me what sidequest in DAO turned into a 2 hour adventure.

[Meltemph]

So this thread has turned into "lets tear down Origins to prop-up Inquisition"...yikes.

 

Origins is one of the most heralded games of the last decade and you people are dragging it through the mud in defense of a game that is a complete question-mark at this point.

 

Embarrassing.

That is just a foolish statement. if picking at the mechanics of DAO is "tearing it apart" I'd say you have a reverence for the game that to me is nonsense. You can like the game and think everything in it was great, but I though it had a lot of area's for improvement in the gameplay department. Also, I dont think DAO's gameplay was ever "heralded games of the last decade". Not everyone has to be devoted to a cause for a game we like.  Hell, BG2 is probably my favorite RPG of all time, and I could easily talk about the things that I thought could have been improved dramatically in that game, gameplay wise.

[wcholcombe]

As a huge fan of shooters, comments like the one you quoted is mind mindbogglingly foolish, I see no similarities at all. It makes me wonder if some people ever even play shooters, when the compare them to things.

I mean, Destiny has taken some rpg elements and put them into the shooter world on a very light level, but those elements were RPG long before they were shooter.

 

I really want to hear how on the scale of old school video games- Super Mario Brothers, Ikari Warriors, Zelda, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy- DAI is somehow taking the series from the FF/DW/Zelda side into the Ikari Warriors area of video gaming.

[Morroian]

Umm what?  Ok, please explain to me how on earth they have made DAI closer to being a shooter? I mean it this is going to take some explaining.

 

8 ability limit, limitations in the ability trees. Note I'm not saying it is a shooter.

[Meltemph]

I mean, Destiny has taken some rpg elements and put them into the shooter world on a very light level, but those elements were RPG long before they were shooter.

 

I really want to hear how on the scale of old school video games- Super Mario Brothers, Ikari Warriors, Zelda, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy- DAI is somehow taking the series from the FF/DW/Zelda side into the Ikari Warriors area of video gaming.

Ya, but RPG elements are not the same as the actual mechanics of a shooter, they are wildly different then even a full on action rpg.

[earl of the north]

I loved Origins enough to play it through thirty odd times but it had its faults (especially the combat), I enjoyed DA2 enough to play it through over ten times but it had its faults (especially the re-used caves and act 3) and I'm sure Inquisition will have its faults as well.....one thing that popped up in the demos I've seen is the enemies spawning right on top of the party.

 

Anyway, I'm not worried I've seen enough to purchase my copy (deluxe edition) and downloaded it today. 

[Rawgrim]

8 ability limit, limitations in the ability trees. Note I'm not saying it is a shooter.

 

More like Diablo 3, actually. Diablo 3 combat + the optional tactical view.

[Nattfare]

Nohvarr, on 04 Nov 2014 - 9:27 PM, said:

When I went back and rewatched 'Thundercats" I realized that may enjoyment of the show had more to do with the rocking intro than anything that occured in the series proper. The same goes for the book "Dune" which was the 1st  science fiction novel I ever read. I still love them....but I understand that neither one is the pinnacle of their field.

 

That intro really rocked though.

[TheCreeper]

So this thread has turned into "lets tear down Origins to prop-up Inquisition"...yikes.

 

Origins is one of the most heralded games of the last decade and you people are dragging it through the mud in defense of a game that is a complete question-mark at this point.

 

Embarrassing.

The problem is there are a number of people who are basically saying "DA:I should really just be Origins with a different plot." Which is a really bad idea for a number of reasons. I like DA:O, I like it quite a bit, but it had it's flaws and anyone who argues otherwise is being silly, it gets really silly when you realize just how many criticisms of DA:I can be applied to DA:O, hell many where at the time by Baldur's Gate fans. What we've seen in recent previews is basically the equivalent of doing side quests in Lothering, only instead of getting it of a Chantry board we're getting it from people in a way that actually ties into the main story. Killing Three bears didn't help the grey wardens, killing rams for food builds support (at least from a RP prespective) for the Inquisition in the Crossroads population

[Paul E Dangerously]

The problem is there are a number of people who are basically saying "DA:I should really just be Origins with a different plot." Which is a really bad idea for a number of reasons. I like DA:O, I like it quite a bit, but it had it's flaws and anyone who argues otherwise is being silly, it gets really silly when you realize just how many criticisms of DA:I can be applied to DA:O, hell many where at the time by Baldur's Gate fans. What we've seen in recent previews is basically the equivalent of doing side quests in Lothering, only instead of getting it of a Chantry board we're getting it from people in a way that actually ties into the main story. Killing Three bears didn't help the grey wardens, killing rams for food builds support (at least from a RP prespective) for the Inquisition in the Crossroads population

 

No, we aren't. But being like Origins at all would be something of a start.

[wcholcombe]

I loved Origins enough to play it through thirty odd times but it had its faults (especially the combat), I enjoyed DA2 enough to play it through over ten times but it had its faults (especially the re-used caves and act 3) and I'm sure Inquisition will have its faults as well.....one thing that popped up in the demos I've seen is the enemies spawning right on top of the party.

 

Anyway, I'm not worried I've seen enough to purchase my copy (deluxe edition) and downloaded it today.

That has been confirmed as a bug present in the Alpha build.

[Travie]

I think its a combination of massive rose colored glasses, psychological projection and association.

 

Stopped reading right there. The minute you accuse people who don't agree with of believing what they do only because of something like that you've lost the right to be listened to. It's just one step up from base insults. 

 

People can disagree while respecting each other's opinions. 

[TheCreeper]

No, we aren't. But being like Origins at all would be something of a start.

Okay I'm curious, how is it not like Origins at all?

[Rawgrim]

Okay I'm curious, how is it not like Origins at all?

 

Do you expect him to stay up all night writing down a list that long?

[wcholcombe]

More like Diablo 3, actually. Diablo 3 combat + the optional tactical view.

 

 

8 ability limit, limitations in the ability trees. Note I'm not saying it is a shooter.

Lots of RPGs have limits on abilities to be used.  Would you rather they go back to the baldurs gate way of doing things that you can only use abilities/spells a couple of times a day.  Or other RPGs where after you use your limit you have to truck back to town and stay at an inn?

 

It is game balancing in order to make the combat better and more tactical. It isn't new to RPGs anymore then hitpoints are new to RPGs.

[Myala]

I am not calling this a shooter by any means but there is definitely twitch based combat in the multiplayer that is similar to most shooters. While playing multiplayer it felt really comfortable and familiar due to playing ME3 multiplayer. That does not appear to be case with SP though.

[nutcrackr]

It is pretty clear they are trying to appeal to a range of players with the third person action combat and the tactical combat. You will get compromises doing it that way. I personally disliked the DA:O combat mainly because of the grind.

 

To say it's like Diablo 3 would be to ignore the tactical combat / player switching all together and pretend that half the skills don't exist.

[wcholcombe]

Do you expect him to stay up all night writing down a list that long?

Well, if it isn't like Origins at all, he should at least be able to give us some pretty simple examples.

 

And please, don't use no healing spells or loss of attribute points. Already covered.

[Nohvarr]

Accusing people of tearing down DA:O to prop up DA:I is simply erroneous. There are any number of video games that I love to which I could print out a LIST of things I think could be Improved.

 

Let's start with Jade Empire. The combat system needs a massive overhaul. I would still keep the concept of mastering different forums, and switching them during combat, but the actually system could greatly benefit from either following in the Shoes of the Arkham series or Sleeping Dogs. The game also needs to be bigger, with a chance to visit many more locals within the Empire.

 

We'll discuss the problems with character progression another time.

 

Stopped reading right there. The minute you accuse people who don't agree with of believing what they do only because of something like that you've lost the right to be listened to. It's just one step up from base insults. 

 

People can disagree while respecting each other's opinions. 

Which is interesting because I see those who dislike the game's direction accusing those who like it of being 'Biodrones' and other such nonsense. In fact this current tangent springs forth from people claiming posters were tearing down DA:O to make DA:I look good which is untrue. They were simply pointing out that DA:O isn't perfect and that some of the accusations being leveled at DA:I were also leveled at Origins.

 

So there, at last' we've found one way the two games are alike.

[wcholcombe]

I am not calling this a shooter by any means but there is definitely twitch based combat in the multiplayer that is similar to most shooters. While playing multiplayer it felt really comfortable and familiar due to playing ME3 multiplayer. That does not appear to be case with SP though.

Well yes, I would fully expect the multiplayer to have that kind of feel, the only way for them to make it tactical would be to make it turn based, and at that point they might as well not bother.

[TheCreeper]

Do you expect him to stay up all night writing down a list that long?

I'm just saying that's a really big claim, also an inaccurate one I can nitpick to death because making massive sweeping generalizations is normally a pretty bad idea. 

 

Party is still three companions plus the PC, still have the ability to choose between multiple different races (they've even expanded it since origins) still can play as a mage, rogue or Warrior, the Tactical view has returned, the game even has Redcliffe Castle.

[earl of the north]

That has been confirmed as a bug present in the Alpha build.

 

Good to know, well then so far I've seen nothing from the Inquisition streams that worries me then. 

[IssackHawkeFTW]

 

Them rose tinted glasses here. We desperately needed to move away from Origins combat, it was the sheer definition of broken. The preview complains about the whole action RPG thing, but what was Origins combat like?
>Tank eats aggro
>Wynne fixes you up
>DPS does the damage
Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, and complaining about them moving away from the Tank-Healer-DPS set up is a bit silly because we need that choice. What is wrong with having a system that isn't so rigid and limiting? you can actually get creative, here. I love that. I want that.

Let's not forget anyways how the best set up in DAO was 3 mages and a rogue, or stuff like Arcane Warrior and stabby stabby Assassin rogue. The only illusion of strategy DAO gave was with its slow as nails pace which was horrendously boring.

Unto quests: 
Lets list the fetch quests in DAO, shall we?
-Blackstone Irregulars
-Like, every Orzammar quest
-Interested parties
-Mage collective
-Chanters Board
-Crime Wave
-Ironbark and dog quests
-Beven
The list goes on and on, and you know what the catch is? fetch quests aren't always a bad thing, if done right, they can actually feel dynamic and interesting, so complaining about it here in comparison to Origins is moot.

Another reason I feel the credibility of this preview is lessened is the whole ''we wanted Origins 2/they should've made the same game'' that's just asking for stagnation and ensuring there won't be an honest, unbiased opinion here. You shouldn't come into this looking for Origins 2, you're setting yourself up for disappointment by doing so rather than judging the game for its own pros and cons.

 

My goal isn't to fanboy over Inquisition or tear down Origins, I love both Origins and DAII and am cautiously optimistic about Inquisition but this is just very biased.

[Morroian]

The problem is there are a number of people who are basically saying "DA:I should really just be Origins with a different plot." 

 

Not me, I actually like the DA2 gameplay and ability trees. But DAI is reducing more rpg elements even from DA2.

[Nohvarr]

Well, if it isn't like Origins at all, he should at least be able to give us some pretty simple examples.

 

And please, don't use no healing spells or loss of attribute points. Already covered.