181 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

Do they? I always thought of Hawke as their Hawke...

 

Ikr.... Lol @ some posts.

[leaguer of one]

Never was a truer word said in jest.

 

I think the OP calling Hawke "awesome" was meant to be sarcastic.

To bad for the op that Hawke being Awesome is literally true.

[leaguer of one]

Probably not. Bioware loves to think of Hawke as their Shepard but it's never going to catch on.

How? Hawke is not the main character. Hawke is nothing like Shepard.

[Salaya]

As an origins fan i am insulted by this post and thread.

 

The OP is filled with LIES, there is no evidence provided that the devs regard Origins fans as vestigial nor naive. And lets be clear this is an outright lie not just an opinion but something said deliberatly to deceive the reader.

 

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by this, it was not my intention to make anyone feel insulted; just voice out a dissapointment

 

I'm afraid I'm not trying to deceive anyone... I really think devs do not like Origins, or what it represented. Or more especifically, they transpire opinions that seem to reflect that, wheter they think it or not, and had developed Inquisition trying to deny anything Origins tried to do. That could be good, or not. That's a matter of taste, of course; I, personally, don't like it.

 

In more than one occasion, developers have clearly said that Origins had vestigial or unnecessary gameplay elements. They have also said that is not realistic to expect a more oldschool approach to the franchise. I feel this alone justifies what I said.

 

In any case I didn't want to pass all this as proved facts or anything. It's just an opinion about recent statements and news about the game.

[leaguer of one]

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by this, it was not my intention to make anyone feel insulted; just voice out a dissapointment

 

I'm afraid I'm not trying to deceive anyone... I really think devs do not like Origins, or what it represented. Or more especifically, they transpire opinions that seem to reflect that, wheter they think it or not, and had developed Inquisition trying to deny anything Origins tried to do. That could be good, or not. That's a matter of taste, of course; I, personally, don't like it.

 

In more than one occasion, developers have clearly said that Origins had vestigial or unnecessary gameplay elements. They have also said that is not realistic to expect a more oldschool approach to the franchise. I feel this alone justifies what I said.

 

In any case I didn't want to pass all this as proved facts or anything. It's just an opinion about recent statements and news about the game.

That was about gameplay not story.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by this, it was not my intention to make anyone feel insulted; just voice out a dissapointment

 

I'm afraid I'm not trying to deceive anyone... I really think devs do not like Origins, or what it represented. Or more especifically, they transpire opinions that seem to reflect that, wheter they think it or not, and had developed Inquisition trying to deny anything Origins tried to do. That could be good, or not. That's a matter of taste, of course; I, personally, don't like it.

 

In more than one occasion, developers have clearly said that Origins had vestigial or unnecessary gameplay elements. They have also said that is not realistic to expect a more oldschool approach to the franchise. I feel this alone justifies what I said.

 

In any case I didn't want to pass all this as proved facts or anything. It's just an opinion about recent statements and news about the game.

 

Thinking Origins wasn't perfect doesn't mean they don't like it, you know.

[Revan Reborn]

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by this, it was not my intention to make anyone feel insulted; just voice out a dissapointment

 

I'm afraid I'm not trying to deceive anyone... I really think devs do not like Origins, or what it represented. Or more especifically, they transpire opinions that seem to reflect that, wheter they think it or not, and had developed Inquisition trying to deny anything Origins tried to do. That could be good, or not. That's a matter of taste, of course; I, personally, don't like it.

 

In more than one occasion, developers have clearly said that Origins had vestigial or unnecessary gameplay elements. They have also said that is not realistic to expect a more oldschool approach to the franchise. I feel this alone justifies what I said.

 

In any case I didn't want to pass all this as proved facts or anything. It's just an opinion about recent statements and news about the game.

I fear you are confusing BioWare's intent to modernize Dragon Age's gameplay systems with their alleged opinion of the main protagonist and the story.

 

BioWare has never openly criticized DAO's story or its characters. That rationally wouldn't make a lot of sense considering BioWare created the story and likely approved of it before shipping. The only criticism, and rightfully earned, is that the gameplay of DAO was rather dated and very traditional considering RPG standards of the time. It was mildly acceptable on PC with the inclusion of the tactical camera, but absolutely horrendous playing on consoles.

 

DA2 rectified the archaic nature of DAO's combat, but to its own detriment going too far and creating another unsatisfying experience. DAI hopes to take the best of both games and create a gameplay experience DA fans deserve.

[AtreiyaN7]

Sour grapes much? Jesus, I liked my Warden and wouldn't mind seeing her again in some capacity, but you and other people who create threads like these need to get over it. I'm finding myself agreeing with KoorahUK from page 1 in almost wishing they'd just killed the Warden off in some tragically heroic manner so that people can just move on with their lives - sheesh.

 

P.S. It's not like I love Hawke more than the Warden, but really??? And while we're at it, it's ridiculous that you're saying that the devs think DA:O fans were naive, etc. Really? Just because you're not getting your way, you're making it sound like they hate you specifically. I liked DA:O quite a bit, and I don't feel like the devs have dissed anyone or their particular tastes. *shakes head*

[Gothfather]

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by this, it was not my intention to make anyone feel insulted; just voice out a dissapointment

 

I'm afraid I'm not trying to deceive anyone... I really think devs do not like Origins, or what it represented. Or more especifically, they transpire opinions that seem to reflect that, wheter they think it or not, and had developed Inquisition trying to deny anything Origins tried to do. That could be good, or not. That's a matter of taste, of course; I, personally, don't like it.

 

In more than one occasion, developers have clearly said that Origins had vestigial or unnecessary gameplay elements. They have also said that is not realistic to expect a more oldschool approach to the franchise. I feel this alone justifies what I said.

 

In any case I didn't want to pass all this as proved facts or anything. It's just an opinion about recent statements and news about the game.

 

 

Don't want to insult people then don't make things up. You OUTRIGHT lied about what the devs did and tried to pass of a politely worded post as to what would be in the game as proof of your lies.

 

Want to express an opinion on the topic here is how...

 

"I am disappointed that Hawke has more screen time than 'the Warden.' I felt DA:O was the better game and I feel 'the Warden' should have gotten more screen time than Hawke."

 

That is a REASONABLE way to express your disappointment and desires without making things up and LYING.

 

Don't pretend after the fact you were being reasonable. YOU WERE NOT. You had a hissy fit because you didn't get what you wanted and you were so self centred about your wants that you manufactured a situation that doesn't exist to justify your hissy fit.

 

Don't like DA2? I get it neither do i. Think Origin's is the better game? Me too. These are all opinions but you desire to express your opinion or your desire to see X in the game doesn't give you licience to manufacture BS.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I've changed my mind. I'd like to see a cameo by the Warden. I'd like to see him attempt to communicate via sign language and blinking in Morse code. Maybe he could put on a puppet show! That s**t will be a riot. 

Will it be a saucy puppet show?

[Salaya]

I fear you are confusing BioWare's intent to modernize Dragon Age's gameplay systems rather than their opinion of the main protagonist and the story.

 

BioWare has never openly criticized DAO's story or its characters. That rationally wouldn't make a lot of sense considering BioWare created the story and likely approved of it before shipping. The only criticism, and rightfully earned, is that the gameplay of DAO was rather dated and very traditional considering RPG standards of the time. It was mildly acceptable on PC with the inclusion of the tactical camera, but absolutely horrendous playing on consoles.

 

DA2 rectified the archaic nature of DAO's combat, but to its own detriment going too far and creating another unsatisfying experience. DAI hopes to take the best of both games and create a gameplay experience DA fans deserve.

 

No, maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

 

I doubt Bioware devs don't like Origins plot, characters, or story. Never tried to imply the contrary. I think they want to "forget" about Origins because they think it's archaic, gameplay wise. The fact that they bring back Hawke again, and not the warden, it's like another little step to try to give relevance to a game they feel it's closer their new look of the franchise.

 

Of course, I don't share your opinion about DA2. You call it rectification, and I call it homogenization. But I feel that's just a matter taste.

[Salaya]

Don't want to insult people then don't make things up. You OUTRIGHT lied about what the devs did and tried to pass of a politely worded post as to what would be in the game as proof of your lies.

 

Want to express an opinion on the topic here is how...

 

"I am disappointed that Hawke has more screen time than 'the Warden.' I felt DA:O was the better game and I feel 'the Warden' should have gotten more screen time than Hawke."

 

That is a REASONABLE way to express your disappointment and desires without making things up and LYING.

 

Don't pretend after the fact you were being reasonable. YOU WERE NOT. You had a hissy fit because you didn't get what you wanted and you were so self centred about you wants that you manufactured a situation that doesn't exist to justify your hissy fit.

 

Don't like DA2? I get it neither do i. Think Origin's is the better game? Me too. These are all opinions but you desire to express your opinion or your desire to see X in the game doesn't give you licience to manufacture BS.

 

You said I lied, but I never stated anything but my opinion. If I had lied about devs words, I would have said something like "I have proof that Bioware employees and developers dislike Origins and that's the end of it. I state this as a truth."

 

I just pointed that I (as a part of Origins fans, a particular part if you wish) feel regarded as archaic or vestigial by devs opinions. Maybe I'm wrong at feeling this way, because devs intentions with those comments were different. But lying? It would be absurd to lie about how I feel about this matter.

 

I think you're overeacting to my words. It's true that I was using sarcasm when talking about Hawke "awesomeness", but everything else was just plain opinion, nothing else. If you want to feel insulted by it, I'm really sorry, as I said, it was not my intention. Take it as you wish.

[Revan Reborn]

No, maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

 

I doubt Bioware devs don't like Origins plot, characters, or story. Never tried to imply the contrary. I think they want to "forget" about Origins because they think it's archaic, gameplay wise. The fact that they bring back Hawke again, and not the warden, it's like another little step to try to give relevance to a game they feel it's closer their new look of the franchise.

 

Of course, I don't share your opinion about DA2. You call it rectification, and I call it homogenization. But I feel that's just a matter taste.

Define how it's "archaic gameplay-wise"? To suggest gameplay is to make reference towards the antiquated combat, of which was the major criticism of DAO, and rightfully so. Are you referring to the art-style change? I personally wouldn't consider that gameplay and it was certainly an improvement over DAO. Unless you are perhaps referring to the silent protagonist instead or perhaps the lack of a dialogue wheel? I'm not quite sure I'm following how BioWare is trying to forget anything. They certainly have been taking steps to improve and streamline systems that were otherwise poorly conveyed or excessive in nature previously.

 

With respect to Hawke, his story was never finished. DA2's purpose was to explain his origin and for Leliana and Cassandra to find him. We knew all along Hawke would be integral in ending the Mage-Templar War, so this should not come as a surprise to anyone. As far as the Warden is concerned, while I believe his input would make sense, his purpose is certainly not as strong as Hawke's. BioWare will more than likely provide closure and explain any loose ends as to why the Warden "vanished" at the closing events of DA2.

 

DAO's combat was atrocious. It was slow. It was awkward and clunky. It wasn't responsive. Excluding the tactical cam on PC, it was outright terrible and somewhat perplexing why BioWare would release a game with such antiquated game mechanics. DA2 was much faster, more responsive, and overall led to a more enjoyable experience. It inevitably was too quick, losing its weight, and the game came across more as a hack and slash than a party-based RPG. DAI looks to balance the strengths of DAO and DA2 into a system that provides something for everyone.

[Eldan Varen]

One of the reasons why I did not enjoy DA2 and the Hawke character in particular, is because it created a dissonance. The Warden is a true hero. A legend. Hawke on the other side always felt like a "nouveau riche pimp screw-up" to me. Essentially a nobody that gets undeserved praise.

DA:O and DA2 are in a crass conflict because of this. I do not acknowledge DA2 as a proper sequel to DA:O.

It looks like that honour will fall to DA:I. In order to have the most enjoyable experience and to put things in the proper light, I will make Hawke as insignificant as possible (thanks to the Keep). No killing high dragons and Varric won't be his friend either. His greatest accomplishments will be surviving his mother and siblings, scraping Sela Petrae from the bottom of the sewers for Anders, betraying Isabella to the Arishok and somehow managing to survive the Mage-Templar conflict. Probably by hiding under Sandal's bed. Oh, and unleashing Corypheus, of course.

That will hopefully reduce the amount of Hawke's undeserved mentions.

[TheInquisitor]

Like her or not, she's still a character that matters in the DA Universe. 

[Zaarin]

Don't worry, the Devs have made sure that Hawke will show up to save the day every time the Inq is in trouble. Mid way through the game you'll have to choose between handing the Inquisition over to Hawke because of how awesome he is or comitting sepeku because of how much inferior the Inq is. Then the rest of the game is about Hawke being awesome and fighting all the remaining Archdemons at once, including one possessing the Warden.

Glorious game isn't it?

Preferably not as a serious installment...but I would totally play that game.

[Gingin]

I don't know why Hawke deserves that hatred...

[Meltemph]

I don't know why Hawke deserves that hatred...

"Mah Warden"

[badboy64]

I have all of the Wardens DEAD in all of my imports for DA:I so now I don't have to worry about them anymore. Don't get me wrong I played alot of hours in the game but their story is done with me. They all made the Ultimate sacrifice.

[Duelist]

Given how horrifically overpowered my Rogue Hawke was, my Qunari Rogue will want to fight him. Not to kill him or anything, just because it would be one hell of a fight.

[Exile Isan]

Perhaps Bioware simply wishes to move onto to other stories, other hero's? Hawke's inclusion into DA:I is because Hawke's story was never finished (Exalted March expansion cancelled), and Hawke is more intregal to the mage/templar war. Heck the whole reason we see Hawke's story is because Cassandra was looking for him/her. The Warden's story is done. They had one whole game, an three expansions, plus lots of DLC. They also are possibly dead.

You know I'm kinda starting to feel like Carver about the Warden the way he felt about Anders "I don't hate you because you're The Warden, I hate you because your fans won't shut up about you!"

[GodBrandon]

Lmao I feel like half of the DA fan base hates Hawke. Chillllll

[KaiserShep]

One of the reasons why I did not enjoy DA2 and the Hawke character in particular, is because it created a dissonance. The Warden is a true hero. A legend. Hawke on the other side always felt like a "nouveau riche pimp screw-up" to me. Essentially a nobody that gets undeserved praise.

DA:O and DA2 are in a crass conflict because of this. I do not acknowledge DA2 as a proper sequel to DA:O.

It looks like that honour will fall to DA:I. In order to have the most enjoyable experience and to put things in the proper light, I will make Hawke as insignificant as possible (thanks to the Keep). No killing high dragons and Varric won't be his friend either. His greatest accomplishments will be surviving his mother and siblings, scraping Sela Petrae from the bottom of the sewers for Anders, betraying Isabella to the Arishok and somehow managing to survive the Mage-Templar conflict. Probably by hiding under Sandal's bed. Oh, and unleashing Corypheus, of course.

That will hopefully reduce the amount of Hawke's undeserved mentions.

 

The funny thing is, one can make the Warden much much worse than this. Hell, your Warden can be a total psycho and not even be the one to finish off the Archdemon in the end, and then you can get the glory for someone else's noble sacrifice. In the end, the Warden is only a true hero if you wish him/her to be. It's not something that's automatic.

 

Honestly, my city elf basically coasted to victory on the shoulders of Loghain.

[Gothfather]

You said I lied, but I never stated anything but my opinion. If I had lied about devs words, I would have said something like "I have proof that Bioware employees and developers dislike Origins and that's the end of it. I state this as a truth."

 

I just pointed that I (as a part of Origins fans, a particular part if you wish) feel regarded as archaic or vestigial by devs opinions. Maybe I'm wrong at feeling this way, because devs intentions with those comments were different. But lying? It would be absurd to lie about how I feel about this matter.

 

I think you're overeacting to my words. It's true that I was using sarcasm when talking about Hawke "awesomeness", but everything else was just plain opinion, nothing else. If you want to feel insulted by it, I'm really sorry, as I said, it was not my intention. Take it as you wish.

 

I never lied the proof of me not lying is if I lied I would have told you it was the truth? Really thats your argument? The only time its a lie is if you actually say its the truth?

 

You presented your argument as such...

 

 

Since Origin's fans are regarded by devs as vestigial or naive (example), and Warden absence is confirmed (it seems DA franchise has to move forward, but hey, let's bring Hawke again beacuse you know, she was so awesome), will be able at least to ignore Hawke's quest or whatever she does in Inquisition? Or her quest/appearence/cameo will be unavoidable?

 

I don't like her and it would be cool that players could ignore her appearence without consequence.

[bold size increase underline italics added by me]

 

Definition of since =  for the reason that: because:

 

You did not present an opinion in your first statement you said the devs regard Origin fans as vestigial or naive. That is not expressing opinion, you are making a claim of a fact, one you try to support with a link that doesn't provide any support for your claim. This is not an opinion this is presented as fact. The only reasonable interpretation is you are claiming this is true. Its not true, ergo you LIED.

[Salaya]

I never lied the proof of me not lying is if I lied I would have told you it was the truth? Really thats your argument? The only time its a lie is if you actually say its the truth?

 

 

No, I did not lie because I've never stated that it was a proven fact, which is the only way to say I was lying with justification. And that is not the case.

 

 

 

You presented your argument as such...

 

 

[bold size increase underline italics added by me]

 

Definition of since =  for the reason that: because:

 

You did not present an opinion in your first statement you said the devs regard Origin fans as vestigial or naive. That is not expressing opinion, you are making a claim of a fact, one you try to support with a link that doesn't provide any support for your claim. This is not an opinion this is presented as fact. The only reasonable interpretation is you are claiming this is true. Its not true, ergo you LIED.

 

Yeah, of course. Because devs say particular things I feel in a very specific way. I've stated an opinion; that I have that feeling because rationally I think devs have done something, it doesn't mean I pass it as a proven fact and that everyone else is confused about my "truth". If I would have wanted to lie, which is your claim, I would have presented not as a "because-then" statement, but as irrefutable truth in the lines of "Devs treat us as naive, and I have solid proof that is impossible to accept otherwise". If someone presents a rational reason to justify his/her feeling, its not rational to think this person is trying to pass that reason as universal. And that's the problem of your interpretation of my words -you assume I'm trying to impose that reason to others.

 

Even you are exposing feelings and thoughts with reasons that I'm sure you're not universalizing. If I took any of those and got indignant, postulating your lies, I would be doing the same mistake.

 

You don't like my opinion? I get it, but you don't have to label it as invalid with untenable arguments. I don't have problems with other bioware fans liking Hawke, or liking dev words or a lot of other things. I just don't have the same opinion.