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[nightscrawl]

There is stuff earlier in the thread about why she isn't a romance option. It's quite reasonable and makes a lot of sense when you consider her story arc.

[YourFunnyUncle]

She's a person of color but she looks like an Indian and/or Spaniard with Moorish blood. And they portrayed her as a slutty/******/jezebel/ black woman stereotype which is very offensive of how they represent black women as such, but Vivienne is far from those stereotypes, she got class, don't take **** from nobody, strong, articulate, and beautiful. And she's not a romance option and Isabella is the ONLY woman of color to be romance option? I find that very suspicious of how BioWare deals with women of color.

You think that Isabela takes **** from anyone? She's a pirate captain. Get on her bad side and get a dagger between the eyes.

She owns her sexuality. If you think that's a bad thing, she couldn't care less, and she certainly isn't going to let anyone tell her to stop or try to control her in any way. She's just as strong a woman as Vivienne. She just has a very different world view.

I agree about looks though. She seems North African whereas Vivienne seems sub-Saharan. What that means in terms of Thedas, I have no idea.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You think that Isabela takes **** from anyone? She's a pirate captain. Get on her bad side and get a dagger between the eyes.

She owns her sexuality. If you think that's a bad thing, she couldn't care less, and she certainly isn't going to let anyone tell her to stop or try to control her in any way. She's just as strong a woman as Vivienne. She just has a very different world view.

I agree about looks though. She seems North African whereas Vivienne seems sub-Saharan. What that means in terms of Thedas, I have no idea.

Hey I know that, I'm just saying in general that they put her as a vulgar, disgusting, and dirty stereotype. And I think the reason why that they want her to be a bad ass, is because to mask her from players to see her as that and not the ugly side of her how she poorly represents women of color. And Vivienne is stronger than Isabella mind you, because she don't back down to anyone despite her being mean to anyone she talks to. And Isabella don't want to accept responsibility of what she stole the relic from the Qunari that costs the lives of innocent people and she left captured and dumping captured slaves to die to escape from the Orlesian Army (if my memory serves me right) to save herself and that's badass? She's a coward and unattractive as a character, I know that no one's perfect and all but she's far from being a badass.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Hey I know that, I'm just saying in general that they put her as a vulgar, disgusting, and dirty stereotype. And I think the reason why that they want her to be a bad ass, is because to mask her from players to see her as that and not the ugly side of her how she poorly represents women of color. And Vivienne is stronger than Isabella mind you, because she don't back down to anyone despite her being mean to anyone she talks to. And Isabella don't want to accept responsibility of what she stole the relic from the Qunari that costs the lives of innocent people and she left captured and dumping captured slaves to die to escape from the Orlesian Army (if my memory serves me right) to save herself and that's badass? She's a coward and unattractive as a character, I know that no one's perfect and all but she's far from being a badass.

1. If you see someone who loves sex as "vulgar, disgusting and dirty" then that's your problem. Thankfully not everyone in the world thinks like you.

2. When Isabela found out that she was transporting slaves, she freed them. She didn't abandon them to escape from anyone. That's why Castillon had her chase after the relic, as payment for letting his "cargo" go. She got in all that trouble precisely because she does have a conscience. Your memory is very faulty.

3. Isabela is a flawed and selfish character, sure, but while Vivienne likes to work within the system, you really weren't paying attention if you think she's any less self-obsessed than Isabela. She's clearly out to further her own power and influence at all times, and she doesn't much care who she stamps on to do it.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

1. If you see someone who loves sex as "vulgar, disgusting and dirty" then that's your problem. Thankfully not everyone in the world thinks like you.
2. When Isabela found out that she was transporting slaves, she freed them. She didn't abandon them to escape from anyone. That's why Castillon had her chase after the relic, as payment for letting his "cargo" go. She got in all that trouble precisely because she does have a conscience. Your memory is very faulty.
3. Isabela is a flawed and selfish character, sure, but while Vivienne likes to work within the system, you really weren't paying attention if you think she's any less self-obsessed than Isabela. She's clearly out to further her own power and influence at all times, and she doesn't much care who she stamps on to do it.

Hey you don't have to believe everything that I've said, it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone to agree with me and I know that no character is perfect that everyone has flaws to make every character unique, I'm saying those things simply from my own observation and my own interpretation. Vivienne is an opportunist to gain higher power there is no denying that, and she is an unpleasant person to talk to or not bothering to make friends with someone like her or a potential LI. And Isabella is a laid back type of character easily to make friends with, and I don't take issues with her sexuality mind you but it's just stereotyping her of sexualizing women of color that's rubbing me kind of icky and overdoing it that makes me back off from her. (They did that with Vivienne too by her outfits which I don't mind her wearing them) Again I'm simply saying out of my own observation.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

There is stuff earlier in the thread about why she isn't a romance option. It's quite reasonable and makes a lot of sense when you consider her story arc.

She's still sexy.

[Xilizhra]

Hey you don't have to believe everything that I've said, it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone to agree with me and I know that no character is perfect that everyone has flaws to make every character unique, I'm saying those things simply from my own observation and my own interpretation. Vivienne is an opportunist to gain higher power there is no denying that, and she is an unpleasant person to talk to or not bothering to make friends with someone like her or a potential LI. And Isabella is a laid back type of character easily to make friends with, and I don't take issues with her sexuality mind you but it's just stereotyping her of sexualizing women of color that's rubbing me kind of icky and overdoing it that makes me back off from her. (They did that with Vivienne too by her outfits which I don't mind her wearing them) Again I'm simply saying out of my own observation.

If sex is quite that icky for you, what of Josephine?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

If sex is quite that icky for you, what of Josephine?

*sigh* we're a little off topic. Please allow me to clarify. The original thread was stereotypes. Women of color, particularly women of African descent, are often portrayed as either a Jezebel or a ******. Hence Isabel (Jezebel) and Vivienne (******). And while Isabel is a woman of color, she's not African. The only woman that is, you can't romance. Why? And for the record being a dude I love women that embrace their sexuality. A lot. Not for a wife but definitely as a booty call. Mmm, booty call.

[Xilizhra]

*sigh* we're a little off topic. Please allow me to clarify. The original thread was stereotypes. Women of color, particularly women of African descent, are often portrayed as either a Jezebel or a ******. Hence Isabel (Jezebel) and Vivienne (******). And while Isabel is a woman of color, she's not African. The only woman that is, you can't romance. Why? And for the record being a dude I love women that embrace their sexuality. A lot. Not for a wife but definitely as a booty call. Mmm, booty call.

So, Josephine, who's neither? She might not be black, but she's also not white.

[vertigomez]

And for the record being a dude I love women that embrace their sexuality. A lot. Not for a wife but definitely as a booty call. Mmm, booty call.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

So, Josephine, who's neither? She might not be black, but she's also not white.

So, Josephine, who's neither? She might not be black, but she's also not white.

My point is why not Vivienne? It's a tease. Dangle the forbidden fruit in your face but you can't touch. While Josephine is a woman of color, she's not of African descent. If she was an African woman, would she be a romance option? Highly doubtful.

[Xilizhra]

My point is why not Vivienne? It's a tease. Dangle the forbidden fruit in your face but you can't touch. While Josephine is a woman of color, she's not of African descent. If she was an African woman, would she be a romance option? Highly doubtful.

I'm unconvinced that there even is a media stereotype about black women being used as teases

[Qun00]

The same as I am not certain why so many say that Leliana is the most gorgeous girl in DAI...

It does help that she isn't a bald woman with disproportionate lips.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I'm unconvinced that there even is a media stereotype about black women being used as teases

*deep sigh* never said that. I just commented that they dangle Vivienne as a tease. Once again it's about the Jezebel/B*tch stereotypes that the media continues to perpetuate.

[Xilizhra]

*deep sigh* never said that. I just commented that they dangle Vivienne as a tease. Once again it's about the Jezebel/B*tch stereotypes that the media continues to perpetuate.

I'm unsure how Vivienne would be a less unpleasant person if she was a romance option.

[vertigomez]

The real solution here is to continue to diversify the characters in the series. That way it's not "Bioware thinks all black people/gay people/women act like this!" It's just one character among many.

[Iakus]

I'm unconvinced that there even is a media stereotype about black women being used as teases

I'm still puzzled at the thought that Vivienne was used as a tease.  She never flirts or expresses any romantic interest in the Inquisitor whatsoever.  She's an attractive glamorous woman, and that's as far as it goes.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I'm unsure how Vivienne would be a less unpleasant person if she was a romance option.

Hey, I like a woman with a little spice, fire, flavor. She's hot. She would be a perfect match for the Inquisitor. Sexy, ambitious and hot. Did I mention hot? Definitely wifey material.

[Catilina]

Definitely wifey material.

"Oh-darling-you-look-terrible" Vivienne? No way...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

"Oh-darling-you-look-terrible" Vivienne? No way...

Pfft. That's just a little love and concern about your well-being. And her looks more than make up for the attitude. But noooo, you can't romance Vivienne. Jerks.

[Catilina]

Pfft. That's just a little love and concern about your well-being. And her looks more than make up for the attitude.

No. This the "kindness" of a court-shark.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

No. This the "kindness" of a court-shark.

Hell, Jaws was my FAVORITE movie. (sexy growl)

[Catilina]

Vivienne is a pretty good character, but not too likeable – i think.

[Sylvianus]

@ Serious Business : Beautiful, I do agree that they butched her model's face ! 

 

I'm still puzzled at the thought that Vivienne was used as a tease.  She never flirts or expresses any romantic interest in the Inquisitor whatsoever.  She's an attractive glamorous woman, and that's as far as it goes.

 

Yeah. I aslo didn't understand why she laughs so much in Trepasser, when the inquisitor shows that he is interested dating her... What is so funny exactly ? It isn't even explained. I felt it was gross, some kind of fanservice supposed to make laugh people. Well, I didn't feel it was funny, because she had no reasons to laugh, especially if she loves quizzie as a friend. 

 

She also states that she has no interests dating the inquisitor because it wouldn't bring her anything. But then, she needs the help of the inquisitor to become divine, I naively thought at this moment, that something would have been available, or that there would be a reward, like a small kiss on the cheek. But no...

 

I also fail to see how being with the inquisitor could be perceived as politically useless, given the influence it could bring to her, especially after the fall of Corypheus. The fact that she doesn't explain anything over that makes me think that it is a poor reason given.

 

The only legetimate reason is her boyfriend, but in Trepasser, two years after, she doesn't think anymore about other men or women ? Is she too old or too busy to think about being with someone again ? lol. 

 

No, for me, Bioware just didn't want at all to give anything with Vivienne. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

@ Serious Business : Beautiful, I do agree that they butched her model's face ! 
 

 
Yeah. I aslo didn't understand why she laughs so much in Trepasser, when the inquisitor shows that he is interested dating her... What is so funny exactly ? It isn't even explained. I felt it was gross, some kind of fanservice supposed to make laugh people. Well, I didn't feel it was funny, because she had no reasons to laugh, especially if she loves quizzie as a friend. 
 
She also states that she has no interests dating the inquisitor because it wouldn't bring her anything. But then, she needs the help of the inquisitor to become divine, I naively thought at this moment, that something would have been available, or that there would be a reward, like a small kiss on the cheek. But no...
 
I also fail to see how being with the inquisitor could be perceived as politically useless, given the influence it could bring to her, especially after the fall of Corypheus. The fact that she doesn't explain anything over that makes me think that it is a poor reason given.
 
The only legetimate reason is her boyfriend, but in Trepasser, two years after, she doesn't think anymore about other men or women ? Is she too old or too busy to think about being with someone again ? lol. 
 
No, for me, Bioware just didn't want at all to give anything with Vivienne.

Because she's a black woman.