You can't roleplay characters who aren't your own. That's why you don't get to chose her dialogue.
Leliana is very explicit and obvious about the fact that she's in love with Majorlaine, not that she cares about her a lot as a friend. Someone doesn't have to lift up a placard that says "Having sex with [Insert Name]" to get across that the person is having sex with [Insert Name].
holy crap [insert name] is getting all the action on this thread.
Bioware confirmed that Anders, Fenris, Isabela, and Merrill are all bisexual. The player does not change their sexuality.
I'm not changing anything.
Steve Cortez is gay/bisexual, because he says he is. Anders is also gay/bisexual because he wanted to get into my male Hawkes pants. And so on.
I'm not changing anything.
Steve Cortez is gay/bisexual, because he says he is. Anders is also gay/bisexual because he wanted to get into male Hawkes pants. And so on.
You brought up playersexuality, which is literally "sexuality determined by the player".
The player doesn't decide if Anders is gay or bisexual. He is set as bisexual by Bioware.
An interesting topic. I'd support the idea.
Also something that some of us discussed on the Cullen thread, maybe Bioware have included this in DAI. Vivienne could be asexual, Cullen could be demi (during asexual awareness week Cullen was nominated as the Bioware character most likely to be Demisexual/Grey A by fans), as for that matter could be Solas.
I'm waiting to find out...only days left before launch!
Bioware confirmed that Anders, Fenris, Isabela, and Merrill are all bisexual. The player does not change their sexuality.
With all due respect that was only just recently comfirmed this year. It was very easy to headcannon DA2 companion's sexuality as not being bisexual. Yes Bioware has stated that they are NOW bisexual but when most people played the game its perfectly reasonable for people to come to the conclusion that the player's gender determined their sexuality. Just as it was perfectly reasonable for people to say they were bisexual. I think using a 2014 statement for a 2011 game about companion sexuality doesn't negate the experience people had and the head cannon they would have created when they actually played the game. People should have tollerance for this discrepency simply because its unreasonable to expect people to nullify their memories and experience because they don't met the current acceptable response.
You brought up playersexuality, which is literally "sexuality determined by the player".
The player doesn't decide if Anders is gay or bisexual. He is set as bisexual by Bioware.
As long as Bioware leaves it open to interpretation, then that is what I will do.
In my world Anders is either gay or bisexual, I am not sure. If he would say that he is gay and doesn't like women at all, then he would be gay in my world.
Ah, I remember the days when when Emo wasn't a term and instead that kind of group/look had a different name. Goths here used to call them Baby Bats.
Ah, I remember the days when Goth wasn't a term and instead that kind of group/look had a different name. We use to call ourselves Death Punks. 
Lol. I just dated myself.
An interesting topic. I'd support the idea.
Also something that some of us discussed on the Cullen thread, maybe Bioware have included this in DAI. Vivienne could be asexual, Cullen could be demi (during asexual awareness week Cullen was nominated as the Bioware character most likely to be Demisexual/Grey A by fans), as for that matter could be Solas.
I'm waiting to find out...only days left before launch!
Out of curiosity, how did Cullen win that? He was attracted to the Female Mage Warden who was a complete stranger to him.
With all due respect that was only just recently comfirmed this year. It was very easy to headcannon DA2 companion's sexuality as not being bisexual. Yes Bioware has stated that they are NOW bisexual but when most people played the game its perfectly reasonable for people to come to the conclusion that the player's gender determined their sexuality. Just as it was perfectly reasonable for people to say they were bisexual. I think using a 2014 statement for a 2011 game about companion sexuality doesn't negate the experience people had and the head cannon they would have created when they actually played the game. People should have tollerance for this discrepency simply because its unreasonable to expect people to nullify their memories and experience because they don't met the current acceptable response.
I know. I was just letting the poster know that in case they were unaware that Bioware did so.
And I agree, but the poster is implying that all LIs are like this. They even referred to Leliana, who was confirmed as bisexual before DAO came out, as playersexual and subject to the sexuality they see them as. That is where the problem is.
As long as Bioware leaves it open to interpretation, then that is what I will do.
In my world Anders is either gay or bisexual, I am not sure. If he would say that he is gay and doesn't like women at all, then he would be gay in my world.
Bioware isn't leaving it up to interpretation though.
Bioware isn't leaving it up to interpretation though.
Yes, I heard that they are putting labels on every character's sexuality now.
While I'm all for BioWare being more inclusive, open-minded, and trying to appeal to all various demographics as much as they can, they are still video game designers. Their primary purpose is to make amazing games with epic stories and unforgettable characters. BioWare is not comprised of sexual experts who know the intricacies and theories behind every sexuality in the world. Honestly, I don't believe we should hold them to such an impossible standard to reach either.
BioWare has already done the impossible. They've appealed to more underrepresented demographics, in terms of sexuality, than any game developer before. They are constantly improving their craft and making more believable characters that players can truly relate to. However, we must not forget that relationships are only a part of what constitutes a BioWare game. While I'm all for the writers taking on knew challenges and new experiences, they can never forget what the main purpose of a BioWare story is.
Creating an epic tale where the player is the hero of the story and must conquer an insurmountable threat. That is the main theme of every BioWare game. I would hate for the quality of BioWare storytelling to suffer with the writers attempting to write and express new types of sexualities that haven't been interpreted before. To my knowledge, most of the writing team is heterosexual, so their ability to adequately represent these groups in a respectful manner is already a challenge based on their own personal biases. I'm all for more inclusion and a more welcoming experience, but there is a point where BioWare can only do so much to please everybody.
Relationships and romance are certainly integral parts of a BioWare game. I would not want BioWare to go overboard and then entirely miss the reason why people love these games to start. This isn't a dating simulator. This is great storytelling, great characters, and overcoming an incredible obstacle. If it were permissible and not to affect the storytelling of the main plot, I wouldn't mind it. However, the writing team is under great strains to develop and create new stories, new franchises, and can only dedicate so much time towards romance arcs.
Out of curiosity, how did Cullen win that? He was attracted to the Female Mage Warden who was a complete stranger to him.
Not a complete stranger, when you first talk to him (if you don't flirt) you hear about how awful he felt about being the one chosen to give the deathblow if she failed her Harrowing (emotional investment). Cullen isn't a recruit, he was a full knight at the time of DAO, one of the guards at the Tower. Female Amell knows his name and they have talked before (dialogue). Whilst the mage can show sexual interest (flirting), Cullen finds it embarassing/uncomfortable and runs away. (there are fan game mods that actually have him kiss her, but this did not happen in game).
That scene could be taken as demisexual in nature given that they do know each other from Circle interaction. I certainly used to react in a similar manner
As to the vote, I personally did not take part, but can understand how the idea got started.
Demisexuality is such a... hmm, vague and hard-to-pinpoint orientation that it could be said that it was sorta present in previous games?
Alistair, Merrill, Aveline could be called demisexual since the first one pays attention only to the Warden (as far as I remember), the second one opens up only if Hawke tries to establish a bond and the third one is pretty much uninterested in anyone but her husbands
But it seems to be less difficult to create than pure (a.k.a. complete lack of sexual attraction to anyone ever) asexuality. Grey-asexuality and demisexuality fits the usual LI story more
At the same time it makes these two sexualities less visible and so many don't even recognise them
Well, I'm pretty optimistic it might happen one day. But untill that day I'll be happy to be at least able to make my PC demi in my head
While I'm all for BioWare being more inclusive, open-minded, and trying to appeal to all various demographics as much as they can, they are still video game designers. Their primary purpose is to make amazing games with epic stories and unforgettable characters. BioWare is not comprised of sexual experts who know the intricacies and theories behind every sexuality in the world. Honestly, I don't believe we should hold them to such an impossible standard to reach either.
BioWare has already done the impossible. They've appealed to more underrepresented demographics, in terms of sexuality, than any game developer before. They are constantly improving their craft and making more believable characters that players can truly relate to. However, we must not forget that relationships are only a part of what constitutes a BioWare game. While I'm all for the writers taking on knew challenges and new experiences, they can never forget what the main purpose of a BioWare story is.
Creating an epic tale where the player is the hero of the story and must conquer an insurmountable threat. That is the main theme of every BioWare game. I would hate for the quality of BioWare storytelling to suffer with the writers attempting to write and express new types of sexualities that haven't been interpreted before. To my knowledge, most of the writing team is heterosexual, so their ability to adequately represent these groups in a respectful manner is already a challenge based on their own personal biases. I'm all for more inclusion and a more welcoming experience, but there is a point where BioWare can only do so much to please everybody.
Relationships and romance are certainly integral parts of a BioWare game. I would not want BioWare to go overboard and then entirely miss the reason why people love these games to start. This isn't a dating simulator. This is great storytelling, great characters, and overcoming an incredible obstacle. If it were permissible and not to affect the storytelling of the main plot, I wouldn't mind it. However, the writing team is under great strains to develop and create new stories, new franchises, and can only dedicate so much time towards romance arcs.
I agree that Bioware has done an amazing job with sexualities in their games in recent years. But I don't think there's ever a point where I'll say, "Good job guys, pack it in. This is far enough." I will always be asking for more from them, and a Demisexual LI is a good example of that. Especially because they pretty much already did it in Merrall, save for Word of God.
Not a complete stranger, when you first talk to him (if you don't flirt) you hear about how awful he felt about being the one chosen to give the deathblow if she failed her Harrowing (emotional investment). Cullen isn't a recruit, he was a full knight at the time of DAO, one of the guards at the Tower. Female Amell knows his name and they have talked before (dialogue). Whilst the mage can show sexual interest (flirting), Cullen finds it embarassing/uncomfortable and runs away. (there are fan game mods that actually have him kiss her, but this did not happen in game).
That scene could be taken as demisexual in nature given that they do know each other from Circle interaction. I certainly used to react in a similar manner
As to the vote, I personally did not take part, but can understand how the idea got started.
I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'm fairly sure that having a passing acquaintance with someone isn't enough for a Demisexual.
I agree that Bioware has done an amazing job with sexualities in their games in recent years. But I don't think there's ever a point where I'll say, "Good job guys, pack it in. This is far enough." I will always be asking for more from them, and a Demisexual LI is a good example of that. Especially because they pretty much already did it in Merrall, save for Word of God.
I'm not suggesting BioWare should never strive to achieve more. I'm just stating that their primary concern is to make a great video game, and that romances are only a part of that element. When we start getting into some of the more underrepresented sexualities that are difficult to convey in a story, I believe we are putting an unreasonable burden and expectation for the writers to constantly address everybody's personal preferences.
I can understand how some would be in favor of this if it represents their own personal sexuality, but again DAI is not a dating simulator or a political action group. I'd much rather have characters with diverse and interesting personalities rather than worry about romance arcs, which are really just dressing to attempt to enhance the relationships.
I think the writers declare sexuality before a game release because in Mass Effect, for example, Liara was bisexual and then she wasn't- because asari aren't women, in ME2 there were no same sex relationships Fans were upset. To show love interests will be available to many they declare who is what. However, I'm for headcanon, if one can reasonably decide a character is part of a larger spectrum I don't see anything that should stop you, including the word of the writer. One writer's do not examine every aspect of a character, two, characters and series can have multiple writers, three, in my opinion, once a piece of art or literature leaves the hands of a creator it becomes the property of all, four, even writers don't always know all they have imbued their writing with. I don't like the idea of writer's having the final word, except in the cases of Dumbledore, for example, who some missed as being gay, I had theories that were backed by the writing, but it was nice to have the author confirm. Also, interpretations must be able to be backed by text.
I'm not suggesting BioWare should never strive to achieve more. I'm just stating that their primary concern is to make a great video game, and that romances are only a part of that element. When we start getting into some of the more underrepresented sexualities that are difficult to convey in a story, I believe we are putting an unreasonable burden and expectation for the writers to constantly address everybody's personal preferences.
I can understand how some would be in favor of this if it represents their own personal sexuality, but again DAI is not a dating simulator or a political action group. I'd much rather have characters with diverse and interesting personalities rather than worry about romance arcs, which are really just dressing to attempt to enhance the relationships.
I think people are just asking that they vary the romance aspect to represent more perspectives. No one has asked for it to be a dating sim, so I'm not sure why you keep saying that. If they are going to include romances anyway, why can't they just mix up those romances? I think they do a pretty good job of it, but I don't see why people are suggesting that "striving to achieve more" with regards to sexuality representation and "making a great video game" are mutually exclusive. Why can't both happen?
I think the writers declare sexuality before a game release because in Mass Effect, for example, Liara was bisexual and then she wasn't- because asari aren't women, in ME2 there were no same sex relationships Fans were upset. To show love interests will be available to many they declare who is what. However, I'm for headcanon, if one can reasonably decide a character is part of a larger spectrum I don't see anything that should stop you, including the word of the writer. One writer's do not examine every aspect of a character, two, characters and series can have multiple writers, three, in my opinion, once a piece of art or literature leaves the hands of a creator it becomes the property of all, four, even writers don't always know all they have imbued their writing with. I don't like the idea of writer's having the final word, except in the cases of Dumbledore, for example, who some missed as being gay, I had theories that were backed by the writing, but it was nice to have the author confirm. Also, interpretations must be able to be backed by text.
I think we can all agree that the ME team handled non-hetero sexualities terribly, especially in the first two games. Liara and the asari were always intended to be sexy blue bisexual alien ladies. No amount of backtracking will convince me otherwise. It's only once people asked for m/m options that they started to backtrack. First it was, "Because as a pre-determined character, Shep's not gay." Then, when people correctly pointed out that FemShep could be a lesbian because of Liara that they came back with, "Well, Asari aren't females, so FemShep's not gay either." Forget the fact that it says in the Codex in ME1, "Asari are an all FEMALE race". Then, once they realized that this line of reasoning had no legs, they introduced true s/s options and completely went against their earlier arguments altogether. It was a disaster. Thankfully, the DA team has always been much better around this.
Hrm...I think the Dumbledore thing is BS, because Rowling acted like it was totally understandable that she didn't explicitly state or more strongly show it there (which it's actually not because Dumbledore doesn't have to be having sex or whatever to show he's gay) and people act like its some great big progressive thing for her to say it after the fact....well, I guess it is something and I don't want to take that away from anyone (and I will certainly never say he's not gay)....but author comments don't mean as much in the long run because they're not coupled with the text and therefore the reading is not there for people to discover. If Rowling wanted him to be gay and for people to get that instead of reading it subtextually, she had ample opportunities to do so.
Maybe a better example is Gaider saying he meant for Anders to be bisexual in Awakening. It's there, subtextually, so that interpretation works....but the reason I don't roll my eyes there in terms of considering that representation is because it became actual text in DA2 so it's no longer just a possible interpretation.
...this stuff is hard, so I am not trying to be too harsh on Rowling, but I am irked by the "duh, of course he was gay!!! How could you not know?? She made it so obvious and it's not like she could show him doing it!!" school of apologetics that came out of that.
To be frank we see mostly all 7 books from Harry's PoV and he grew up in a pretty traditional and conservative family even if he hated them
I doubt he would have notice anything going on between DB and some other man as a kid and when he became more-or-less adult and interested in romance and stuff Dumbledore, eh, "disappeared" plus DB seems to be kind of isolated from other people despite his outside friendliness with whom could he be possibly paired with in the whole Hogwarts? Hagrid?..
Am I only one who felt that there was sth between DB and that, er, other black wizard he worked with and against?
I think people are just asking that they vary the romance aspect to represent more perspectives. No one has asked for it to be a dating sim, so I'm not sure why you keep saying that. If they are going to include romances anyway, why can't they just mix up those romances? I think they do a pretty good job of it, but I don't see why people are suggesting that "striving to achieve more" with regards to sexuality representation and "making a great video game" are mutually exclusive. Why can't both happen?
The romance arcs are essentially dating simulators. They always have been, with the final animated sex scene being the climax of that relationship. Again, this aspect of BioWare games is only one element and not the entire experience.
Well as I stated before how can one even effectively convey demisexuality? Some of these sexualities are difficult to express in a story, let alone a video game, that as others have suggested, headcanon is a much more effective tool.
It's one thing to be inclusive when it's reasonable and makes sense. It's another thing to go to the extreme and inevitably lose your focus and the entire product suffers because you failed in generating that message.
I'm all for BioWare pushing the boundaries. They just need to realize their own limitations and the fact they will not be able to please everyone.
As a gay man who often had to search for gay in his favorite literature, just as I had to search for it in real life I intuited that Dumbledore was gay. I felt Rowling stated it more for the straight folks who could miss it or argue against it. I also didn't get the impression she was letting folks know so they could give her awards, but had she not said it I would have believed it anyway.
Daveliam is right about the Mass Effect mess, and, as I stated, I believe this is a big reason sexuality is announced in games. I just wish it weren't let us find out and define on our own. I would be cool with the developpers saying their is queer content in the game and being done with it.
I'm not suggesting BioWare should never strive to achieve more. I'm just stating that their primary concern is to make a great video game, and that romances are only a part of that element. When we start getting into some of the more underrepresented sexualities that are difficult to convey in a story, I believe we are putting an unreasonable burden and expectation for the writers to constantly address everybody's personal preferences.
I can understand how some would be in favor of this if it represents their own personal sexuality, but again DAI is not a dating simulator or a political action group. I'd much rather have characters with diverse and interesting personalities rather than worry about romance arcs, which are really just dressing to attempt to enhance the relationships.
The romance arcs are essentially dating simulators. They always have been, with the final animated sex scene being the climax of that relationship. Again, this aspect of BioWare games is only one element and not the entire experience.
Well as I stated before how can one even effectively convey demisexuality? Some of these sexualities are difficult to express in a story, let alone a video game, that as others have suggested, headcanon is a much more effective tool.
It's one thing to be inclusive when it's reasonable and makes sense. It's another thing to go to the extreme and inevitably lose your focus and the entire product suffers because you failed in generating that message.
I'm all for BioWare pushing the boundaries. They just need to realize their own limitations and the fact they will not be able to please everyone.
To be fair, I actually don't think Kallen is even asking for a Demisexual romance. Just a Demeisexual character within the game. As to the question of how one could effectively convey Demisexuality, just play DA2 and romance Merrall. If it wasn't for Word of God saying she was bisexual, it would be very easy to assume that she was Demisexual.
So actually a request for demisexuality is basically exactly what you're asking for, because since the character will never state it in game...
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