1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Tayah]

Sorry for the dabbling in thread necromancy, but I wanted to let everyone know that the surgery went very well. My son, Owen, was released from the hospital two days early and is healing nicely. Sadly, the hospital trip has completely screwed up his sleeping schedule, so I've only been able to play DA:I for about ten hours (and I've been logged in for roughly 40).

Really glad to hear that Revil and hopefully you all continue to do well and have a great December and a happy and healthy new year. I hope everyone has a happy and healthy new year actually.

 

Also I'm glad Josephine works for you in regards to representation Hanako (Name change yes? I don't know what it means or where it comes from but it reads cool and probably sounds different to how I imagine so it's seriously awesome btw  ).

[Sartoz]

Big Snip

------------

To Bioware and whoever else is reading this, I appreciate the time you took to do so. Please feel free to add any input you wish. Thank you. 

 

How do you expect the writers, with a limited Word Budget, put this into the game? Gaider mentioned that each of the nine companions has between 2k-3k lines of dialogue.  The Demi character would add a certain complexity in the dialogue choices and require more lines to accomplish your intent.... meaning less for others....

 

It may be better suited for a DLC... assuming we the players can understand him/her as a LI. I'm say this because your description tells me that at the beginning, this character will come off as cold, neutral... something along those lines....

[Baerdface]

I really hope that's not how writing works. If they make these characters just to tick the checklist of inclusiveness for the sake of it, it is just disingenuous and fake. As far as I'm concerned "Hey, let's write a gay character because we need a gay character" is an approach to writing that limits creative expression because it puts you in a box. "Hey, I came up with a character and he happens to be gay" is a healthier and more natural approach to character writing that is a RESULT of creative expression rather than a result of being pressured into pandering to certain whiny cretins.

[Lintton]

This...no. this doesn't seem like it would work., at all. I'm not even certain it is a thing to consciously put in, without getting criticism about how odd the romance turns out.

[Spitfire]

At this point I would shag my armored horse as long as I know that I can actually 'WALK' to the darn bed! (I'm tired of running everywhere! What is this 'Last of the Mohicans' or something?)

[RevilFox]

How do you expect the writers, with a limited Word Budget, put this into the game? Gaider mentioned that each of the nine companions has between 2k-3k lines of dialogue.  The Demi character would add a certain complexity in the dialogue choices and require more lines to accomplish your intent.... meaning less for others....

 

It may be better suited for a DLC... assuming we the players can understand him/her as a LI. I'm say this because your description tells me that at the beginning, this character will come off as cold, neutral... something along those lines....

 

 

This...no. this doesn't seem like it would work., at all. I'm not even certain it is a thing to consciously put in, without getting criticism about how odd the romance turns out.

Save for comments outside of the game by Gaider (aka Word of God), Bioware has already showed that they can do this in a Dragon Age game in Merrill. So the argument that they shouldn't do it due to complexity isn't a valid one.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, as I haven't read through all 15 pages of comments, but the OPs description of what demisexuality is reminds me a bit of the Asari from ME.

No, this hasn't been discussed. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why you think that.

 

Really glad to hear that Revil and hopefully you all continue to do well and have a great December and a happy and healthy new year. I hope everyone has a happy and healthy new year actually.

 

Also I'm glad Josephine works for you in regards to representation Hanako (Name change yes? I don't know what it means or where it comes from but it reads cool and probably sounds different to how I imagine so it's seriously awesome btw  ).

I hope everyone has a good year as well. In fact, I hope everyone has a good life.

 

Thanks, Tayah. And yes, it's a name change. If you are really curious with your questions, I'll PM you about it. 

 

I really hope that's not how writing works. If they make these characters just to tick the checklist of inclusiveness for the sake of it, it is just disingenuous and fake. As far as I'm concerned "Hey, let's write a gay character because we need a gay character" is an approach to writing that limits creative expression because it puts you in a box. "Hey, I came up with a character and he happens to be gay" is a healthier and more natural approach to character writing that is a RESULT of creative expression rather than a result of being pressured into pandering to certain whiny cretins.

You are correct in how Bioware writes characters. Gaider actually said something nearly identical to what your put when talking about Dorian, saying Dorian was not written as a gay male character but as a male character who happens to be gay. 

 

Save for comments outside of the game by Gaider (aka Word of God), Bioware has already showed that they can do this in a Dragon Age game in Merrill. So the argument that they shouldn't do it due to complexity isn't a valid one.

Add to that other people in this thread making cases for other characters in Bioware games, and yeah really only a few lines would need to be changed to give it the extra push. 

[Tayah]

@Hanako, yep genuinely curious. You've had a few names I think and they all have seemed interesting.

 

Also I think Merrill and Josephine seem to show that this kind of character is possible, what else do you think might be needed to give the extra push? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Hanako, yep genuinely curious. You've had a few names I think and they all have seemed interesting.

 

Also I think Merrill and Josephine seem to show that this kind of character is possible, what else do you think might be needed to give the extra push? 

Well, it varies on the franchise.

 

For Dragon Age, the writer saying that they are(or in Josephine's case the writer saying it is a perfectly valid viewpoint) demisexual will be as far as they can go. Like The Iron Bull being pansexual, that will never come up ingame since such terminology doesn't exist in that universe. 

 

For Mass Effect, other than WoG like for DA the extra push would be ingame acknowledgement in some way, shape, or form since that takes place in our future so the terminology, either the term itself or an explanation that matches the definition, would work. 

[Weltall]

 

 

No, this hasn't been discussed. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on why you think that.

Well, I compared to your initial post to the Asari of the ME universe. To them sex is generally considered irrelevant in terms of what they consider to be love or romance. In fact, anything physical is considered superficial, so the other person's gender or even species is insignificant, though they seem capable of attractive aspects of other people (or aliens). They can and do have sex, and they are capable of enjoying it, but it doesn't typically appear to have the same link to love or romance as it does in our own culture. How does that compare to your own views?

[Biotic_Warlock]

I read your definition of Demi sexual and it makes no sense.
Isn't what you described a romantic asexual?
An asexual can form an emotional bond romantically.

Edit: I derped. This is an old thread

Edit 2: another derp. I missed that part where you mentioned later, so my original comment stands corrected.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, I compared to your initial post to the Asari of the ME universe. To them sex is generally considered irrelevant in terms of what they consider to be love or romance. In fact, anything physical is considered superficial, so the other person's gender or even species is insignificant, though they seem capable of attractive aspects of other people (or aliens). They can and do have sex, and they are capable of enjoying it, but it doesn't typically appear to have the same link to love or romance as it does in our own culture. How does that compare to your own views?

Hmm, you bring up a good point. With how you describe the asari, while I wouldn't say they are demisexual I could see them being demiromantic, which is similar but replace sexual attraction with romantic feelings. 

[Xhaiden]

Thing is, Bioware doesn't use labels and feels no need to point out who wants to stick their what in who. Much as the world should be really. Hence there are already Bioware characters that arguably fit into this terminology. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Thing is, Bioware doesn't use labels and feels no need to point out who wants to stick their what in who. Much as the world should be really. Hence there are already Bioware characters that arguably fit into this terminology. 

Um, what?  

 

Okay, I'll just stick with the DA games here.  You are very, very wrong.  While the characters in these games may not use the terms, the DA team does and preference comes up quite a bit.

 

Origins:

 

Oghren talks about sex darn near all the time.

Leliana mentions her female lover, Marjoline.

Wynne talked about having a child with a male templar. 

Zevran is open about having had sex with both men and women.

See: Every bit of party banter about your LI choice/status.

 

 

DA2:

 

Depending upon gender, Anders does mention he had a male lover.  In both cases, he mentions having sex with others in the Circle.

Isabela talks very bluntly about having sex with both men and women.

Sebastian is open about having a lot of sex with women in his past.

Fenris and Isabela are a couple if neither are romanced by the player, and talk about sex.

See: Every bit of party banter about your LI choice/status

 

DAI:

 

Sera makes it very clear that she finds female Qunari attractive to matter what.

Dorian's personal quest.  Full stop.

Iron Bull talks about sex all the time.  To the point where NPCs in Haven are talking about it.

Iron Bull and Dorian are a couple if neither are romanced and will openly flirt in party banter.

Josie and Blackwall have a romance if neither are with the player.

See: Every bit of party banter about your LI choice/status.

 

 

BioWare uses labels all the time for describing their characters as well as having straight and non-straight characters talk about their sexual history/interests/preferences.  And as far as any character that would have fit as demisexual, that would have been Merrill.  That the DA team said was bisexual early this summer.  That is a specific label and term that BioWare used.  By that term alone, she (unfortunately for the OP,) is not demisexual.  So far, while there have been a few you could squint and call demisexual, there hasn't been a companion that fits that definition yet.  

 

Also, at GamyerX this year they talked about writing an asexual romance as well.  So I think that Hana's idea could tie into that.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Was talking with a friend about this yesterday.
It was brought up the question "Why is this even a term/label?"
Wouldn't demisexuality just be sexuality? Just because there is nothing until relationships, they are still sexual. There is just a lack of desire for it earlier, and hence being a label in itself is redundant.

A man doesn't feel urges til they are in a committed relationship with a woman, they are still straight (or bi).
A man doesn't feel urges til they are in a committed relationship with a man, they are still gay (or bi).

Probably a bit too off topic a way to take this, with respects to the game. When you apply, you can just take it that a character doesn't have any urges til they meat the right NPC love interest. Which happens in practically every DA/ME game.

[Grieving Natashina]

You can be demisexual and still have sexual preferences within that.  

 

So a person that has no sexual attraction outside relationships with the opposite gender would be still be demisexual (due to the sex drive not being active outside of a relationship) and hetero-romantic.   

 

See, there's sexual attraction and there is mental/emotional attraction.  Someone could have display little sexual drive in their day to day life, but still prefer the emotional and mental company of (for an example) a member of the opposite sex.  Also, there is a difference between aesthetic and sexual attraction.  You can find someone very attractive without having a sexual interest in them.

 

 For example, a demisexual gay-romantic finds only members of their own gender attractive enough on a mental, emotional and aesthetic level in order attempt a relationship.  If the demisexual in this case falls in love while in that relationship, then the attraction starts having sexual aspects come in as well.

 

See, in most of the DA/ME games, those LIs have had love interests before the player came along.  Between the two series, it would be a long list of LIs that have talked about their previous relationships/sex lives that happened before the player showed up.  Liara and Merrill, so far, as the closest to demisexual characters I can think of between the two franchises.  They don't talk about previous sexual interest or romance, and only seem to act towards the player in a sexual manner once a close relationship is established.

[Biotic_Warlock]

See, there's sexual attraction and there is mental/emotional attraction.  Someone could have display little sexual drive in their day to day life, but still prefer the emotional and mental company of (for an example) a member of the opposite sex.  Also, there is a difference between aesthetic and sexual attraction.  You can find someone very attractive without having a sexual interest in them.
 
 For example, a demisexual gay-romantic finds only members of their own gender attractive enough on a mental, emotional and aesthetic level in order attempt a relationship.  If the demisexual in this case falls in love while in that relationship, then the attraction starts having sexual aspects come in as well.

In a sense Im starting to feel that is applicable to myself.
Despite the confusing avatar: I am a guy who likes guys, and I find many attractive, but some urges are a little nonexistent sometimes. Possibility still attached the chance that I'm either that or asexual after all...

This is something I've never heard of before so I'm a little bit confused when it comes to understanding what it means, so I might have seemed ignorant in some posts on this thread.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Was talking with a friend about this yesterday.
It was brought up the question "Why is this even a term/label?"
Wouldn't demisexuality just be sexuality? Just because there is nothing until relationships, they are still sexual. There is just a lack of desire for it earlier, and hence being a label in itself is redundant.

A man doesn't feel urges til they are in a committed relationship with a woman, they are still straight (or bi).
A man doesn't feel urges til they are in a committed relationship with a man, they are still gay (or bi).

Probably a bit too off topic a way to take this, with respects to the game. When you apply, you can just take it that a character doesn't have any urges til they meat the right NPC love interest. Which happens in practically every DA/ME game.

 

It is different. I posted a model that I think demonstrates the differences quite well between asexual, demisexual, and verisexual(I was told this was the term that encompasses those who aren't the first two). 

 

Primary Sexual Attraction: A sexual attraction to people based on instantly available information (such as their appearance or smell) which may or may not lead to arousal or sexual desire.

 

Secondary Sexual Attraction: A sexual attraction that develops over time based on a person's relationship and emotional connection with another person.

 

Primary Sexual Desire: The desire to engage in sexual activity for the purposes of personal pleasure whether physical, emotional, or both.

 

Secondary Sexual Desire: The desire to engage in sexual activity for the purposes other than personal pleasure, such as the happiness of the other person involved or the conception of children.

 

One of the strengths of this model is that it clearly distinguishes demisexuals from both sexuals and asexuals. Most sexuals in romantic relationships feel both primary and secondary sexual attraction. The term demisexual, under this model, tends to refer to people who experience only secondary sexual attraction; this attraction can result in primary sexual desire. Since asexuals experience neither primary nor secondary sexual attraction, they cannot experience primary sexual desire. However, since they can experience secondary sexual desire, this model accounts for the sexual behavior of some asexuals.

 

Primary Attraction?

Sexual:Yes

Demisexual:No

Asexual:No

 

Secondary Attraction?

Sexual: Yes

Demisexual: Yes

Asexual: No

 

Primary Desire?

Sexual: Yes

Demisexual: Yes

Asexual: No

 

Secondary Desire?

Sexual: Yes

Demisexual: Yes

Asexual: Yes

 

As for them still being straight, bi, gay, pan, etc that is true. But it is the same concept to how there are straight, bi, gay, pan, etc asexuals. They are demisexual or asexual as well as what attraction/desire they do have falling under the sexual orientations. 

[Grieving Natashina]

In a sense Im starting to feel that is applicable to myself.
Despite the confusing avatar: I am a guy who likes guys, and I find many attractive, but some urges are a little nonexistent sometimes. Possibility still attached the chance that I'm either that or asexual after all...

This is something I've never heard of before so I'm a little bit confused when it comes to understanding what it means, so I might have seemed ignorant in some posts on this thread.

Hey, I'm pan/bisexual and I still make weird blunders and accidentally ask inappropriate questions with other folks in the LGBT community.  I'm still trying to learn the exact differences between pan and bi, myself.  I've heard conflicting definitions from both within and without of the LGBT community.  I can totally understand some confusion.

 

 I'm glad that Hana started this thread.  It seems to have helped a lot of people.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, I'm glad I worked up the courage to do it. If nothing else, the thread serves as a good place to explain it. 

[General TSAR]

Here's a stupid question:

 

Can a demi-sexual check out their partner's erogenous zones after establishing a strong emotional bond and later having sex?

[Angry_Elcor]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

Oh, hmm... it would appear to have been moved or something. Anyway, that originally linked to an explanation of the history of demi-sexuality, and the people responsible for introducing the term into internet society. It wasn't ever a recognized sexuality. It was invented by a 15-year old girl on an old role-playing website in 2004 or thereabouts. She had, shall we say, issues, and had come to identify too closely as her character, losing the ability to separate reality from fantasy. One of the moderators on the website, since he still had access to all of the archived material, introduced the term to tumblr in 2011, as a joke to make fun of someone with similar characteristics to the girl who had invented the term years before. He had no idea that his "joke" would be taken seriously, and that it would take on a life of its own.

 

And here we are.

[Kantr]

What is demisexuality?

 

All these are rather confusing.

[Zobert]

Isn't everyone demisexual?  I've had sex with a gay guy because we were best friends and I've had sex with women because we were best friends, and ya know straight guys for the same reason.

 

I think maybe people don't realize that's what we all are, just humans in drag.

[Zobert]

Hey, I'm pan/bisexual and I still make weird blunders and accidentally ask inappropriate questions with other folks in the LGBT community.  I'm still trying to learn the exact differences between pan and bi, myself.  I've heard conflicting definitions from both within and without of the LGBT community.  I can totally understand some confusion.

 

 I'm glad that Hana started this thread.  It seems to have helped a lot of people.  

 

I will try to say this delicately because you seem authentically sweet, but...you did not make a blunder by asking an inappropriate question.  Anyone who has the f-ing nerve to tell you that is a jerk.  There is inappropriate sentiment but we don't have a right to not be asked questions in this life.  People are going to ask us stuff.  We can choose what we are offended by and anyone with a good heart asking a good-hearted question is never asking an inappropriate question.

 

Intent is everything.

 

I've had sex with people of both genders and I really don't care about how people want to define me because I don't give two s-ts about labels.  If you want to say I'm "bi" okay, if you want to say I'm pan, okay, if you want to say I'm straight because I'm with a guy now, okay.  How you define me is really not that important to me.

 

People are too easily offended by words when they should look at intentions.  Questions and dialogue are the only real way to create change.  Asking no questions, allowing for no debate is just heavy handed and uncool out of anyone.