1942 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

That's why I said depends on who you asked, always depends on who you ask.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In that case, can we not be like that thread please? I would prefer this thread not get locked. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Well.. to be fair, this thread isn't on the same level of stupid as that one was.

Plus, this is a polite request for a companion LI.  I'm always happy to contribute to threads like this.  Variety is the spice of life, after all.  

 

Besides, this thread isn't trying to claim that the people of Thedas would have a problem with nude icons to top their staves with based on the OPs feelings.  

[AresKeith]

Plus, this is a polite request for a companion LI.  I'm always happy to contribute to threads like this.  Variety is the spice of life, after all.  

 

Besides, this thread isn't trying to claim that the people of Thedas would have a problem with nude icons to top their staves with based on the OPs feelings.  

 

What? I'm so offended!

[Seraphim24]

The language isn't operating in theory though. It's operating in practice. And in practice, I think it's a fairly safe assumption that when someone describes themselves as a heterosexual male, they're declaring their interest in prototypical human female features in a mate rather than, say, impressive plumage or a brightly colored posterior.

 

 

How is demisexuality not a box check as well? Just as a furry's object of sexual interest would have to check off "looks like an anthropomorphic creature," a demisexual's object of sexual interest would have to check off "has an established emotional connection."

 

 

Actually, I think the exact opposite of demisexual would involve de-valuing emotional connection when it comes to sexual attraction. So someone who can only be attracted to strangers and finds no sexual interest in those with close emotional bonds to them. I think Zevran was inching close to this, but ended up being more of a "normal but has intimacy issues."

 

Ok, I still don't really see why any of that is attacking the idea that demisexuality provides a lot more interesting information about a person than a traditional gender limitation like bisexuality or heterosexuality. Are you not curious about people's sexual histories or variations? Doesn't someone who has had thousands of partners strikes you as more different than a person who has had none than two people who have had just one but of the same and then opposing gender? (which aren't different at all, aside from simple the gender aspect)

 

I think it's fair to say in reality, not theory, demisexuality sticks with me as an identifier in a pretty strong way.

[Zobert]

In the game you can choose when to start a romance or not start one.  How is that not demisexuality since you can be in love with the character before you do anything with them at all?  Cullen for example, is so so so so so slow to get going that this is the case for him in game.

[DomeWing333]

Ok, I still don't really see why any of that is attacking the idea that demisexuality provides a lot more interesting information about a person than a traditional gender limitation like bisexuality or heterosexuality. Are you not curious about people's sexual histories or variations? Doesn't someone who has had thousands of partners strikes you as more different than a person who has had none than two people who have had just one but of the same and then opposing gender? (which aren't different at all, aside from simple the gender aspect)

 

I think it's fair to say in reality, not theory, demisexuality sticks with me as an identifier in a pretty strong way.

But demisexuality doesn't provide information about how many partners someone has had or any other information about them. The only thing you can gather when someone describes themselves as "demisexual" is whether or not an emotional connection is a requirement for sexual attraction for them. That's it. They could have had several emotionally-connected sexual partners or none. It could be very easy for them to develop emotional connections or extremely difficult. All of their partners could have been male, female, or a combination. 

 

Even if you want to argue that you can infer something about a person's sexual history based on the demisexual label, we already have widely recognized words and phrases to convey those things without the need to invent a new one that most people aren't going to recognize. You want to communicate that you've had loads of sex or not much at all? "I'm sexually experienced." "I'm sexually inexperienced." Boom. Done. 90% of people out there know exactly what you mean. You come up to someone and tell them you're a demisexual, they might think you just have an obsession with the actress from Ghost.

 

Then, of course, there's the fact that the vast majority of people in the world are non-demisexual, meaning that it's a term that 99.99% of the time does absolutely nothing to distinguish between two people's sexual habits. It's a prime example of a jargon term, like simultanagnosia or boolean. Perhaps useful in academic contexts where people talk about obscure sexual deviations all the time, but for the purpose of communicating with and about most people, it's completely useless.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In the game you can choose when to start a romance or not start one.  How is that not demisexuality since you can be in love with the character before you do anything with them at all?  Cullen for example, is so so so so so slow to get going that this is the case for him in game.

This thread is also requesting for companions to be demisexual. 

Also when this thread came out, Inquisition wasn't out yet and the games prior you really couldn't play as one. 

[Zobert]

This thread is also requesting for companions to be demisexual. 

Also when this thread came out, Inquisition wasn't out yet and the games prior you really couldn't play as one. 

 

 

Aside from the Iron Bull, who in your companions is not demisexual by your definition?  Think of all you have to do to make people love and romance you in this game, basically they do have to fall in love.

[XMissWooX]

I don't think it's quite that simple.
Demisexuality isn't "I don't want to sleep with you until we form an emotional bond" - lots of people make this decision, regardless of their sexuality - it's "I literally can't get the hots for you/find you sexy/desire you in a sexual manner/etc. until we've formed an emotional bond".
So, Anders and Isabella, for example, are decidedly not demisexual because they show an obvious attraction right from the outset.

Inquisition seems to have taken a different approach with most of their romances however, since NPCs will no longer try to initiate a romance and thus won't show any obvious signs of attraction until a couple of flirt options have been taken. I suppose this could be interpreted as demisexual if you so wished.

[Zobert]

I don't think it's quite that simple.
Demisexuality isn't "I don't want to sleep with you until we form an emotional bond" - lots of people make this decision, regardless of their sexuality - it's "I literally can't get the hots for you/find you sexy/desire you in a sexual manner/etc. until we've formed an emotional bond".
So, Anders and Isabella, for example, are decidedly not demisexual because they show an obvious attraction right from the outset.

Inquisition seems to have taken a different approach with most of their romances however, since NPCs will no longer try to initiate a romance and thus won't show any obvious signs of attraction until a couple of flirt options have been taken. I suppose this could be interpreted as demisexual if you so wished.

 

 

I'm going to be offensive, but has demisexuality been proven by science the way that homosexuality has?

[Seraphim24]

But demisexuality doesn't provide information about how many partners someone has had or any other information about them. The only thing you can gather when someone describes themselves as "demisexual" is whether or not an emotional connection is a requirement for sexual attraction for them. That's it. They could have had several emotionally-connected sexual partners or none. It could be very easy for them to develop emotional connections or extremely difficult. All of their partners could have been male, female, or a combination. 

 

Even if you want to argue that you can infer something about a person's sexual history based on the demisexual label, we already have widely recognized words and phrases to convey those things without the need to invent a new one that most people aren't going to recognize. You want to communicate that you've had loads of sex or not much at all? "I'm sexually experienced." "I'm sexually inexperienced." Boom. Done. 90% of people out there know exactly what you mean. You come up to someone and tell them you're a demisexual, they might think you just have an obsession with the actress from Ghost.

 

Then, of course, there's the fact that the vast majority of people in the world are non-demisexual, meaning that it's a term that 99.99% of the time does absolutely nothing to distinguish between two people's sexual habits. It's a prime example of a jargon term, like simultanagnosia or boolean. Perhaps useful in academic contexts where people talk about obscure sexual deviations all the time, but for the purpose of communicating with and about most people, it's completely useless.

 

 

I don't think it's quite that simple.
Demisexuality isn't "I don't want to sleep with you until we form an emotional bond" - lots of people make this decision, regardless of their sexuality - it's "I literally can't get the hots for you/find you sexy/desire you in a sexual manner/etc. until we've formed an emotional bond".
So, Anders and Isabella, for example, are decidedly not demisexual because they show an obvious attraction right from the outset.

Inquisition seems to have taken a different approach with most of their romances however, since NPCs will no longer try to initiate a romance and thus won't show any obvious signs of attraction until a couple of flirt options have been taken. I suppose this could be interpreted as demisexual if you so wished.

 

OK, fine, whatever.

 

Although sexually experienced vs inexperienced is a completely meaningless distinction to me, I would not stop the inquiry there there probably are or should be ways of distinguishing between people who have had tons and tons of partners and a few or none, and those decisions or gradations are, way more interesting to me in many respects than the simple gender division at many times. Besides, I already pointed out that heterosexuality, etc, has many of the same limitations, someone could be a porn star or a totally monogamous situation and you dont really know anything.

 

You guys have been using the inadequacy of the definition to dodge that issue which is fine, but its stuff like that which kind of seems central to characters like Isabella vs Merril, etc, Alistair vs Morrigan, etc.

 

Maybe someone can just invent a Disneysexual orientation...

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm going to be offensive, but has demisexuality been proven by science the way that homosexuality has?

Since you asked, it's under the umbrella of asexuality according to psychological studies and physiological studies on human sexuality. I consider psychology and physiology both sciences.  In 2011, the US National Library of Medicine-National Institudes of health published a very interesting study here:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20857185

 

In fact, Dr. Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Canada is professor of sexual behavior and psychology.  He also has an emphasis on uncovering myths about a lot of sexual orientations, including asexuality:

 

http://academicminut...uality-studies/

 

If you want to go back, Alfred Kinsey back in 1948 with his famous Kinsey Scale had a listing as X for those that didn't have social-sexual contacts or relations.  Many researchers since then have argued that the scale wasn't reflective of the entire scope of sexual orientation.  I'd list more examples, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

In short, by testing both physical and psychological reactions, asexuality does indeed exist.  Now, consider that demisexuals are much the same, only they do get turned on if the relationship is deep enough.  I've talked to asexuals here on the forums that have been with the same person for years, love them dearly, but still don't get sexually aroused.

 

What makes a demisexual relationship work so well for Dragon Age is that demisexuals do have a sex drive, once they are close enough to a person.  That would be a great way to include asexuality (which I'll remind you again, Patrick and Karen Weekes talked about being very interested in doing) while still having room for some sort of sex scene.  My only catch would be that I'd want the sex scenes to be optional, like in ME3 where you could choose to just cuddle on the couch before the end.

 

A bi-romantic demisexual would be my choice.  That is someone that can love and have romantic relationships with both genders, but still has to be deeply in love with them to have any sexual interest whatsoever.

 

If you're asking if there is some sort of "Asexuality" or "Demisexuality" gene that's been proven by science, the answer is no.  Again I stress, what's the harm in trying something different?  Is anyone afraid that they won't get more options for straight/gay/bisexual people if they do something outside of the usual?  The writers have said time and time again they aren't interested in fairness for romances, and that includes LGBT as well as straight folks.  

 

Let's try something different here, and instead of making this into a stupid argument about Tumblr, or "realism" or "fairness" or any other crap some folks like to fling around, let's go with, "What would be a good in a fantasy game?"  I'd say, "Why not try something different like this?"

[HuldraDancer]

I'm a little curious on something if there was to be a demisexual companion would they need a certain kind of personality type to pull it off or can it be done with various personalities? Does the demisexual in question have to have a personality similar to Merrill in order for them to come off as demisexual?

[XMissWooX]

I'm not going to start arguing the validity of demisexuality, because I'm certainly no expert on it. I will, however give my own interpretation of it.

Here is AVEN's definition of a demisexual:

"Demisexual: Someone who can only experience sexual attraction after an emotional bond has been formed. This bond does not have to be romantic in nature."

 

So its important to bear in mind that we're talking about sexual attraction here, not sexual activity.

Anyone, of any sexuality can make the decision to not have sex until they know someone well, to only sleep with the person they are in a relationship with, or to abstain until they are married. The distinction between demisexuality and non-demisexuality is a demisexual is literally incapable of finding someone sexually attractive unless they have a strong emotional connection to them, whereas a non-demisexual can find someone sexually attractive upon meeting them for the first time or simply seeing a picture of them.

 

And yes, that is rather confusing. Don't even get me started on the definition of 'sexual attraction'...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm a little curious on something if there was to be a demisexual companion would they need a certain kind of personality type to pull it off or can it be done with various personalities? Does the demisexual in question have to have a personality similar to Merrill in order for them to come off as demisexual?

It can be done with various personalities, just like any other orientation. There are characters in random pieces of media who some suspct may, whether intentionally or unintentionally, be demi and yet they have a broad range of personalities. 

[Zobert]

Since you asked, it's under the umbrella of asexuality according to psychological studies and physiological studies on human sexuality. I consider psychology and physiology both sciences.  In 2011, the US National Library of Medicine-National Institudes of health published a very interesting study here:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20857185

 

In fact, Dr. Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Canada is professor of sexual behavior and psychology.  He also has an emphasis on uncovering myths about a lot of sexual orientations, including asexuality:

 

http://academicminut...uality-studies/

 

If you want to go back, Alfred Kinsey back in 1948 with his famous Kinsey Scale had a listing as X for those that didn't have social-sexual contacts or relations.  Many researchers since then have argued that the scale wasn't reflective of the entire scope of sexual orientation.  I'd list more examples, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

In short, by testing both physical and psychological reactions, asexuality does indeed exist.  Now, consider that demisexuals are much the same, only they do get turned on if the relationship is deep enough.  I've talked to asexuals here on the forums that have been with the same person for years, love them dearly, but still don't get sexually aroused.

 

What makes a demisexual relationship work so well for Dragon Age is that demisexuals do have a sex drive, once they are close enough to a person.  That would be a great way to include asexuality (which I'll remind you again, Patrick and Karen Weekes talked about being very interested in doing) while still having room for some sort of sex scene.  My only catch would be that I'd want the sex scenes to be optional, like in ME3 where you could choose to just cuddle on the couch before the end.

 

A bi-romantic demisexual would be my choice.  That is someone that can love and have romantic relationships with both genders, but still has to be deeply in love with them to have any sexual interest whatsoever.

 

If you're asking if there is some sort of "Asexuality" or "Demisexuality" gene that's been proven by science, the answer is no.  Again I stress, what's the harm in trying something different?  Is anyone afraid that they won't get more options for straight/gay/bisexual people if they do something outside of the usual?  The writers have said time and time again they aren't interested in fairness for romances, and that includes LGBT as well as straight folks.  

 

Let's try something different here, and instead of making this into a stupid argument about Tumblr, or "realism" or "fairness" or any other crap some folks like to fling around, let's go with, "What would be a good in a fantasy game?"  I'd say, "Why not try something different like this?"

 

I will read the first paper, Kinsey -- no.  His studies would have been tossed out with today's expectations of data collection, statistics rigors, IRB considerations, and peer review.

 

His using a single pedophile--meh. Nevermind, I'm going off topic.

 

Homosexuality and heterosexuality can be proven by viewing the brain as it reacts to stimuli.  That's the type of study I'm talking about before I adapt a term to my life.

 

I don't think I owe anyone any intellectual charity, nor do I think that I owe people language.  I want to see the science because I'm not a nice person who patronizes people's feelings.  I got that burnt out of me in Egypt working with female genital mutilation prevention and was told that I can't say "mutilation" to discuss a young girls clitoris being sawed off with a razor because it would "hurt someone's feelings".  I had to say "cutting".

 

Nope.  I don't owe anyone my use of language.

 

Now, if she/he is truly a demisexual that cannot feel attraction until an emotional bond is met, I think that is lovely.  I think it is probably life-saving and in an evolutionary sense would be a desired and advantageous trait that could propel a species into greater health and longevity, but that may be how he/she experiences attraction but whether it is a choice or an innate trait really doesn't make any difference since the result is the same.

 

Yes, that sounds cold.  I'm just not flowers, fluffy bunnies, and pixie dust anymore.

[Zobert]

I should clarify--I don't care what anyone wants to label themselves, do with their lives, cluster, group, or what "world" they live in--since i know people who pretty much live "in game".

 

I'm only speaking of those who want to take me along for the ride, and have me participate in language or concept.  Show me and I'll ride with you or don't show me (that's even better) and go do your own funky thing and be happy.

 

Happy is where it is at.

[Seraphim24]

I'm sorry but if it doesn't bear on sexual activity, the length of relationships, number of relationships, absence or presence of relationships, desire for long term commitment, preference for gender, or any other such thing, then (and this isn't intended to be offensive) what does it bear on?

 

If emotional bond is something that can be rendered as easily as having multiple partners/relationships, in rapid succession etc it seems to render meaningless the point that the formation of sexual attraction is not instantaneous production based on looks,etc. 

 

I mean, these propositions compete with one another quite directly, it's either one or the other, or in the middle, or something. Either demisexual means lengthier relationships/connections (by virtue of the bond limitations) that would generally (but not necessarily) reduce the number of likely total sexual partners/relationships on average experienced or it doesn't.

 

I guess I should add I'm not trying to find a way to condemn people that have multiple partners or larger numbers of sexual experiences or something, I'm just trying to understand what this is exactly. The same for people that would would want a character that is focused on singular, long term relationship.

[Draining Dragon]

Calm down, people. There's no need to fight.

Why can't we just talk about bacon? Everybody likes bacon.

[daveliam]

Calm down, people. There's no need to fight.

Why can't we just talk about bacon? Everybody likes bacon.

 

I'm sick of these made up pork products trying to shove their agenda down my throat because they want to feel like "special snowflakes"!

[Seraphim24]

I said it wasn't intended to make people angry, I'm just curious what is really being asked for here..... it's starting just to sound like saying well it's a different kind of lust, one which is more meaningful which is typical lust. I thought demisexual implied a kind of Disney-esque kind of relationship where people are aspiring towards a kind of idealistic monogamous situation where sexual attraction couldn't possibly occur until the 30th date or something. Or maybe the idea that it's not based on looks overlaps with the notion of sapiosexuality where it's based on intelligence or some other thing. Or maybe it's something in the middle.

 

It's ok whatever people take the term to mean.

[AWTEW]

I just can't take demi-sexuality seriously, tbh. It sounds pretty much like, 'i like you, but I won't jump into bed with you until you grow on me.'

Thats just my opinion, though.

[AresKeith]

I'm sick of these made up pork products trying to shove their agenda down my throat because they want to feel like "special snowflakes"!

 

Pork agenda