1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Abyss108]

When you're trying to be an advocate, which Bioware said they were on this, then you do need to add something to the story with the character or they are just a token character and that is worse than not being present at all.

 

Oh here ya go, rabble--here's a token trans for ya!  ((pats head))

 

Come on now...

 

Could you explain what you mean by Bioware being an "advocate"? I'm pretty sure they're an advocate for including LGBT characters in their games, in which case they did exactly what they said they wanted to do. 

 

You also seem to have missed my point about how the same questions don't get asked about a majority. Seems to be a bit of a double standard there. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Because other characters, even straights, existed for good reasons and added something to the world. Putting emphasis on a character when they have NO purpose other than to be a token is absolute horrible writing.

 

Not every character needs purpose to exist, no, but don't put emphasis on characters when they have no purpose to exist. Krem should've been a silent sideline character, if even that.

 

Then you wouldn't have had a problem if Krem was a companion? With a personal quest and everything? 

[Handsome Jack]

Could you explain what you mean by Bioware being an "advocate"? I'm pretty sure they're an advocate for including LGBT characters in their games, in which case they did exactly what they said they wanted to do. 

 

You also seem to have missed my point about how the same questions don't get asked about a majority. Seems to be a bit of a double standard there. 

 

Bioware shouldn't be an advocate in the first place. That's the problem.

 

Then you wouldn't have had a problem if Krem was a companion? With a personal quest and everything? 

 

I wouldn't have liked Krem, but I wouldn't tolerated companionship and a quest. Would've at least given them meaning. Dragon Age has plenty of companions I like and dislike, and I'm not against any of them (except Inquisition in some aspects).

[sandalisthemaker]

Bioware shouldn't be an advocate in the first place. That's the problem.

 

It most certainly is not a problem.  

[Handsome Jack]

It most certainly is not a problem.  

 

It's a major problem.

 

Look what happened to Gearbox when they decided to become an "LGBT advocate" with Borderlands.

[AresKeith]

It's a major problem.

 

Look what happened to Gearbox when they decided to become an "LGBT advocate" with Borderlands.

 

To you maybe

[sandalisthemaker]

It's a major problem.

 

Why? 

 

That's what BioWare wants to do. They *are* writing the kinds of characters they want to write.

[Abyss108]

Bioware shouldn't be an advocate in the first place. That's the problem.

 

You still haven't explained what you mean by being an "advocate"? All I see is that they included a trans character in the game. If we follow that logic, surely Bioware is an "advocate" for men, just because they featured male characters? 

[Zobert]

Could you explain what you mean by Bioware being an "advocate"? I'm pretty sure they're an advocate for including LGBT characters in their games, in which case they did exactly what they said they wanted to do. 

 

You also seem to have missed my point about how the same questions don't get asked about a majority. Seems to be a bit of a double standard there. 

 

You just explained how they are an advocate, so I'll move to the next question of how it's a double standard...because you have Weekes on Reddit and other places talking him up and patting himself on the back and then he's ...token.

 

A double standard would ONLY exist if they were excited about placing straight characters in the game and people were like, "Hey, why is that straight character the most poorly written straight character with no excuse for being in the game in the game?"

[daveliam]

I, personally, find that Krem's role was important in that it added more to the chargers, but I agree if they were going to do it they should have had a character who had more of  a role. I mean, like I said, Krem's role is important but if you removed it the game would still make sense and be complete. If that's the case, then the character probably isn't that important.

 

The problem is that people are going to clutch their pearls about whatever approach they take:

 

* Introduce a sexual minority character that is a supporting NPC - "TOKENISM!!!!!!  PANDERINGZ!!!!1!!!"

* Introduce a sexual minority character this a major NPC - "MY THROAT!!!!!  WHY ARE THEY FORCING THIS DOWN MY THROAT!!!!!1!!!!!??!"

 

Damned if they do; damned if they don't.  Some people love to be outraged.  My 'ignore' list has been growing because of it.

[Zobert]

Then you wouldn't have had a problem if Krem was a companion? With a personal quest and everything? 

 

 

That's what they should have done if they were going to add a trans character into the game for the first time.

[AresKeith]

I, personally, find that Krem's role was important in that it added more to the chargers, but I agree if they were going to do it they should have had a character who had more of  a role. I mean, like I said, Krem's role is important but if you removed it the game would still make sense and be complete. If that's the case, then the character probably isn't that important.

 

That will always be the case of smaller characters 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Can we please remain civil? I don't want this thread locked. 

[sandalisthemaker]

The problem is that people are going to clutch their pearls about whatever approach they take:

 

* Introduce a sexual minority character that is a supporting NPC - "TOKENISM!!!!!!  PANDERINGZ!!!!1!!!"

* Introduce a sexual minority character this a major NPC - "MY THROAT!!!!!  WHY ARE THEY FORCING THIS DOWN MY THROAT!!!!!1!!!!!??!"

 

Damned if they do; damned if they don't.  Some people love to be outraged.  My 'ignore' list has been growing because of it.

 

HERE, LIAM.   HOLD MY WEAVE. IT'S ABOUT TO GET CRAY IN HERE. 

[Zobert]

You still haven't explained what you mean by being an "advocate"? All I see is that they included a trans character in the game. If we follow that logic, surely Bioware is an "advocate" for men, just because they featured male characters? 

 

Because they said they were advocating for genderqueers on Reddit?

[daveliam]

HERE, LIAM.   HOLD MY WEAVE. IT'S ABOUT TO GET CRAY IN HERE. 

 

I gotcha, boo!

 

But, seriously, I hope it doesn't get cray in here because I'd hate to see the thread closed because of silliness. 

[Handsome Jack]

HERE, LIAM.   HOLD MY WEAVE. IT'S ABOUT TO GET CRAY IN HERE. 

 

Considering you and Dave seem hyper-pro LGBT, I doubt arguing with you will make you see any form of reason.

[Zobert]

Can we please remain civil? I don't want this thread locked. 

 

 

How is it not civil?

[Abyss108]

You just explained how they are an advocate, so I'll move to the next question of how it's a double standard...because you have Weekes on Reddit and other places talking him up and patting himself on the back and then he's ...token.

 

A double standard would ONLY exist if they were excited about placing straight characters in the game and people were like, "Hey, why is that straight character the most poorly written straight character with no excuse for being in the game in the game?"

 

I assumed you meant something more than "simply include a character of this type in the game" when you said "advocate", because that would make Bioware an advocate for a lot of things.

 

I've never seen Weekes "talking himself" up over this. I've seen him write an article because a lot of people were commenting on this, and I've seen him say thanks to people who said "thanks for including this character". And I've seen accept criticism from people regarding this, and opening ask how he could improve. So I'm not really sure what you mean here. 

 

Even if he did do that - that's outside of the game, and has no bearing on actual game content. Thus, is irrelevant to how the game deals with Krem.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How is it not civil?

There have been personal insults thrown at various posters. 

[Zobert]

That will always be the case of smaller characters 

 

If you are going to go to conferences, do online chats, etc promoting this character then flesh him out.  Make him a companion with a story.

[ThreeF]

This is silly. It's impossible not to advocate something when you "write"/tell a story.

[sandalisthemaker]

I gotcha, boo!

 

But, seriously, I hope it doesn't get cray in here because I'd hate to see the thread closed because of silliness. 

 

Oh, don't worry. I'm just kidding. 

 

I'm being good tonight.