1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Natashina]

To go off topic a bit. Isnt everyone (aside from psycopaths) demi-sexual to an extent?

No, because a lot of people don't have to have deep emotional feelings for someone to get turned on by them.  That's the thing about demisexuality.  From what I've gathered, they don't feel much if any of a sex drive unless they deep feelings about the person.  They can be attracted to people, but it's not in a sexual manner.  As for me, I can look at a cute guy or gal walking down the street sometimes and get a little turned on. 

 

Some can be hetero-romantic (meaning a relationship with the opposite sex is what they usually prefer) other can be gay or bi-romantic as well.  

[carlo angelo]

This isn't to say that demisexuality shouldn't be represented by one or more characters in the game because I really think there should be such thing. How well it's handled and how the writers treat such an orientation with as much humanity and profundity as they do other orientations is another matter.

 

Six or seven years ago, I didn't know what asexuality and pansexuality was. This is most possibly because, one, I'm homosexual, and my perspective on sexuality then was very simplistic. Two, binary was something so heavily ingrained into how I've categorised things that it has taken ages for me to wean out of as my view of sexuality and gender becomes more sophisticated. And three, there was no one around me then who identified as such, or if they did, they either weren't aware of it themselves, or they were still coming to terms with their identity.

 

That said, there aren't as many people who are well-versed with how the queer spectrum works as a lot of us are here. And I fear that people who do not know any better would just chalk up demisexuality as "playersexuality" and not consider it a legitimate orientation. "Oh, this is something that only exists in games, I can just headcanon such and such as straight or gay or bi- playersexuality, man! I could label it whatever I want!" without ever realising that demisexuality is a thing.

 

This is one of those things where it all boils down to how it's delivered, how it's written, and how well in game it's addressed, rather than giving it an outright word on it (none of the previous love-interests ever even mention homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality by term themselves- they just say whether they like the company of men, women, or both, or anyone in between).

[Xilizhra]

A biromantic demisexual would not experience primary sexual attraction to men or women, but would be capable of feeling romantic attraction (and then secondary sexual attraction) to both. Merrill fits that criteria because she falls in love with both m&f hawke. Isabela fits bisexual because she is sexually attracted to both before she has romantic feelings.

A bisexual demisexual is a contradiction, because it's saying that they do experience sexual attraction without romantic attraction, but also not.

Some people walk in contradictions though, so I'm sure its possible for someone, somewhere to identify with that? But it's not quite what Kallen is talkin g about.

...I hope I got all that right XD

Given Merrill's line about the qunari being easy on the eyes, and her response if Hawke picks the humorous option to talk to her before the final battle ("The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked... why can't I ever have that dream?"), I would say that Merrill is closer to bisexual than demisexual.

[MissMayhem96]

I really wouldn't mind a Demisexual romance, since I'm not completely sure where I am on the spectrum.

I consider my self Asexual, but I was in a relationship for three years and I considered it to be a strong emotional bond with that person. But nothing happened between us physically.

And the thought of it isn't appealing to me, personally. I'm glad that Bw is looking into Asexuality, it could open the doors to Demisexuality

[daveliam]

And the thought of it isn't appealing to me, personally. I'm glad that Bw is looking into Asexuality, it could open the doors to Demisexuality

 

That's a good point.  Didn't a dev say something at a panel this year about considering asexual representation in a future game?  I think that this is a good sign that they are open to other representations and there is a chance that demisexuality could be included as well. 

[Natashina]

That's a good point.  Didn't a dev say something at a panel this year about considering asexual representation in a future game?  I think that this is a good sign that they are open to other representations and there is a chance that demisexuality could be included as well. 

Not just any dev, but David Gaider, along with Patrick Weekes at GaymerX.

 

There is a total of 4 parts. Forgive me if I'm feeling a bit lazy and not digging up which part of the video talks about that (I think it's in part 4/4), but here's the panel.  I'd highly recommend watching it:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJZ50JWY-I

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TI7rAPhaxM

[Xilizhra]

That's a good point.  Didn't a dev say something at a panel this year about considering asexual representation in a future game?  I think that this is a good sign that they are open to other representations and there is a chance that demisexuality could be included as well. 

I hope this isn't unfair, but I really hope that an asexual romance doesn't take the spot of one that would otherwise be filled by someone sexual. Primarily because my enjoyment of sex is predicated largely on other people enjoying it too, and the thought of someone asexual just going along with it without being engaged skeezes me out badly.

[daveliam]

I hope this isn't unfair, but I really hope that an asexual romance doesn't take the spot of one that would otherwise be filled by someone sexual. Primarily because my enjoyment of sex is predicated largely on other people enjoying it too, and the thought of someone asexual just going along with it without being engaged skeezes me out badly.

 

Well, my understanding of asexuality is that they can enjoy sex and be engaged in it.  At least, I think that's the case.

 

With regard to "taking the spot" of a sexual relationship?  Well, to be fair, In DA, there have been 17 romances and 16 1/2 of them have been sexual.  I think the only one that isn't is Sebastian's with rivalry (I think) and that's not really an asexual romance as much as a chaste romance.  I think they can spare 1 spot in a future game to give some representation to asexuality.  At least, that's my opinion.

[Xilizhra]

Well, my understanding of asexuality is that they can enjoy sex and be engaged in it.  At least, I think that's the case.

 

With regard to "taking the spot" of a sexual relationship?  Well, to be fair, In DA, there have been 17 romances and 16 1/2 of them have been sexual.  I think the only one that isn't is Sebastian's with rivalry (I think) and that's not really an asexual romance as much as a chaste romance.  I think they can spare 1 spot in a future game to give some representation to asexuality.  At least, that's my opinion.

Well, what I emotionally wouldn't want is for it to be a female homoromantic one, but I didn't say that initially because it'd seem selfish. Also, the celibate romance is on Sebastian's friendship.

[daveliam]

Well, what I emotionally wouldn't want is for it to be a female homoromantic one, but I didn't say that initially because it'd seem selfish. Also, the celibate romance is on Sebastian's friendship.

 

Yeah, I get that.  I would also, selfishly, prefer for it to not be a m/m romance as we get no more than 2 of them as well, which would leave me with really just 1 option if I weren't interested in an asexual romance.  However, I'm willing to sacrifice if it means others get representation.  Plus, it might be interesting to explore that kind of story since it's fairly unclear to me what it would entail.

 

Hopefully, if they were to implement this, they would consider balancing issues.  For example, if Solas were an asexual romance, it would impact player choice much less since he's a female elf only romance and they have three other romances to choose from as well.  Of course, then we'd end up with dozens of "Why can't I make elf babies??!?" threads, so I guess they just can't win either way.

[Xilizhra]

 However, I'm willing to sacrifice if it means others get representation.

Given how little I've gotten as it is, I'm not.

[Solid_Altair]

Show the demi turning down some super hot characters who casually hit on her/him. Then have an option to romance him rather late in the game, after you go through a lot of stuff together. I think that could work.

 

BTW... a very educating thread. I didn't know this existed.

[XMissWooX]

This is an interesting idea, and I'd certainly support it.

I'm not entirely sure I fully understand the nuances of the asexual spectrum of sexualities, but I do have an idea for how a Demi-sexual (or even Asexual/Grey-Asexual) LI could be handled in a game like Dragon Age:

 

How about a LI who initially refutes the PC's advances/flirts - perhaps even outright telling the PC that they aren't attracted to them.

But then, as the game progresses and the PC interacts more with the LI and gains their respect and approval, the LI suddenly starts responding. Perhaps flirting doesn't get the PC anywhere, but little hints at attraction begin to crop up in their everyday interactions.

The subject of attraction is then breached one more (including whether the LI wishes to engage or not engage in sexual relations) and the LI admits to having developed a bond and an attraction to the PC. The PC then has the option to turn down the LI if they aren't interested, or express their interest in a relationship with them and have the romance begin in earnest.

 

Now, one big issue I can already see with this scenario is that it might inadvertently reinforce the idea that the LI was interested in the PC all along and was 'just playing hard-to-get' or 'saying no when they meant yes', which would be very problematic.

I wonder if you could avoid (or at least minimise) this problem by ensuring the LI states, in no uncertain terms, that they were only attracted *after* forming an emotional bond with the PC. Perhaps they could also mention that this is the first time its ever happened to them, too, to highlight the fact that this is a genuine formation of an attraction and not simply the LI playing games.

[eyezonlyii]

 

This is an interesting idea, and I'd certainly support it.

I'm not entirely sure I fully understand the nuances of the asexual spectrum of sexualities, but I do have an idea for how a Demi-sexual (or even Asexual/Grey-Asexual) LI could be handled in a game like Dragon Age:

 

How about a LI who initially refutes the PC's advances/flirts - perhaps even outright telling the PC that they aren't attracted to them.

But then, as the game progresses and the PC interacts more with the LI and gains their respect and approval, the LI suddenly starts responding. Perhaps flirting doesn't get the PC anywhere, but little hints at attraction begin to crop up in their everyday interactions.

The subject of attraction is then breached one more (including whether the LI wishes to engage or not engage in sexual relations) and the LI admits to having developed a bond and an attraction to the PC. The PC then has the option to turn down the LI if they aren't interested, or express their interest in a relationship with them and have the romance begin in earnest.

 

Now, one big issue I can already see with this scenario is that it might inadvertently reinforce the idea that the LI was interested in the PC all along and was 'just playing hard-to-get' or 'saying no when they meant yes', which would be very problematic.

I wonder if you could avoid (or at least minimise) this problem by ensuring the LI states, in no uncertain terms, that they were only attracted *after* forming an emotional bond with the PC. Perhaps they could also mention that this is the first time its ever happened to them, too, to highlight the fact that this is a genuine formation of an attraction and not simply the LI playing games.

 

I like this, but as I said earlier, I would change the first time thing to a mention of a past relationship or have the LI have mentioned having a partner/husband/wife  before, and then have some conversations between the PC and LI about how they met, and how they got together. The PC could express confusion or just amicably question why a partner before and not now with the PC. The LI could then explain about how it takes strong feelings rather than physical attraction for them to want to engage in relations. 

 

I just think that if they are going to have a nuanced orientation in the game, then it should come from someone experienced who can guide the PC and thus the player into understanding of what that orientation is. 

[Pasquale1234]

Given Merrill's line about the qunari being easy on the eyes, and her response if Hawke picks the humorous option to talk to her before the final battle ("The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked... why can't I ever have that dream?"), I would say that Merrill is closer to bisexual than demisexual.

 

Possibly... but the fact that one enjoys looking at something does not necessarily mean they want to have sex with it.

 

It's all subject to interpretation.

 

OT:  I'm not entirely sure we haven't already seen a demisexual LI in Leliana - and maybe Alistair?

 

Leliana would not have sex with the Warden until her approval was 100% and she was in love.  It is strongly implied that Leliana was in love with Marjolaine, and any other sex partners she may have had in the past could very well have been bard business, not actual sexual interest on her part.

 

Is complimenting someone's hair an expression of sexual interest?  How about hugging and kissing?  Are these things expressions of affection, sexual desire, or both?  I would guess that 10 different people would give you 10 different answers.  We don't actually know at what point Leliana became sexually interested in the Warden - which, as I understand it, is the primary hallmark of demisexuality.

 

It seems to me that in order to really capture the essence of what it means to be demisexual - and demonstrate it clearly in a fictional character - you would have to make some declarations that delineate between expressions of affection and expressions of sexual desire.  I honestly don't know how you could accomplish that, short of labeling and defining everything.  Anything else would likely be interpreted as a character who may feel sexual desire but does not act on it until the relationship reaches a certain point.

[Who Knows]

Alistair and Leliana don't work very well because of the casual sex with Isabela in the Pearl.

[Pasquale1234]

Alistair and Leliana don't work very well because of the casual sex with Isabela in the Pearl.

 

Good point - I forgot about that.

 

Though, depending on how you role-play that scenario, you might not access that content, or even know about it.

[Gothfather]

/snip

 

Now, one big issue I can already see with this scenario is that it might inadvertently reinforce the idea that the LI was interested in the PC all along and was 'just playing hard-to-get' or 'saying no when they meant yes', which would be very problematic.

I wonder if you could avoid (or at least minimise) this problem by ensuring the LI states, in no uncertain terms, that they were only attracted *after* forming an emotional bond with the PC. Perhaps they could also mention that this is the first time its ever happened to them, too, to highlight the fact that this is a genuine formation of an attraction and not simply the LI playing games.

 

[bold underline mine]

 

This is I think kills the idea dead. I do not want to see anything that can be precieved of No doesn't mean No. Women have it bad enough with media renforcing its okay to keep pushing when she says no because her no really means maybe or yes. I'd not want to see this in a bioware game.

 

But your idea could work if the Demisexual was a "hidden" romance, aka one not declaared by BioWare before launch. People have no idea this is a romance option and so if you form a friendship with this character things progress like they would do with NON romanceable characters but then late in the game the Companion inititates the romance. The Companion is the one that pursues the player. I think this might work and it eliminates the precieved No doesn't mean No because the Player doesn't try to romance them first get rejected then tries again.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Holy crap.

That's me.

I'm glad this thread did that for you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Also, for those talking about how the words do not exist in Dragon Age, I agree. For DA games, Word of God would be enough. As for Mass Effect games, the words do exist so I'd prefer them being used ingame for that series. 

 

And I appreciate all of you for giving feedback and suggestions.

[veeia]

To go off topic a bit. Isnt everyone (aside from psycopaths) demi-sexual to an extent?

No way, I'm bisexual. Show me a gorgeous person and I'm like GRABBY HANDS, we'll bang okay?

I think this is where people get tripped up and why demi gets a bad rap, because they think they are implying that their relationships are more meaningful than us "gross sexuals" or whatever, but it's really not that. They just don't have the same kind of sexual attraction response we do.

Agreed with everyone that Merrill isn't "enough" to make this thread irrelevant ...she's just worth pointing out as someone who is close to the idea since some people seem to struggle with the idea conceptually.

[eyezonlyii]

[bold underline mine]

 

This is I think kills the idea dead. I do not want to see anything that can be precieved of No doesn't mean No. Women have it bad enough with media renforcing its okay to keep pushing when she says no because her no really means maybe or yes. I'd not want to see this in a bioware game.

 

But your idea could work if the Demisexual was a "hidden" romance, aka one not declaared by BioWare before launch. People have no idea this is a romance option and so if you form a friendship with this character things progress like they would do with NON romanceable characters but then late in the game the Companion inititates the romance. The Companion is the one that pursues the player. I think this might work and it eliminates the precieved No doesn't mean No because the Player doesn't try to romance them first get rejected then tries again.

This...this right here would (to me) be the PERFECT way to portray a demisexual person. Someone who comes to it on their own terms, and even more rarely, an LI with proactive agency. Bioware, this is the Demi that the people deserve. *waves flag in triumph*

 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Also, for those talking about how the words do not exist in Dragon Age, I agree. For DA games, Word of God would be enough. As for Mass Effect games, the words do exist so I'd prefer them being used ingame for that series. 

 

And I appreciate all of you for giving feedback and suggestions.

I don't ever remember hearing gay/lesbian/straight/bisexual/homosexual/heterosexual in a Mass Effect game. I guess they technically exist since it's the future of our time, but no one ever uses them.

[veeia]

I don't ever remember hearing gay/lesbian/straight/bisexual/homosexual/heterosexual in a Mass Effect game. I guess they technically exist since it's the future of our time, but no one ever uses them.

I don't either, but this makes me wonder, could Liara be read as demi? I haven't played her romance, so I have no idea. I mean its tricky when you take alien cultures into account, but I don't remember her ever expressing much sexual attraction on an Unromanced run. My ME is very rusty though.