1942 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Except David Gaider was the one who endorsed the mindset of playersexuality in the first place. Something he would end up regretting. 

 

But perhaps you are right. Technically since he is no longer part of the Dragon Age team one could argue his WoGs are no longer WoG.

 

I'd still consider Gaider's WoG as WoG unless Weekes overrides them. 

 

That being said, the playersexuality thing has nothing to do with the fact that he didn't actually WoG that Merrill isn't demisexual.  I've never done the Solas romance, but Delphine seems to think that he would count as well. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Again, what about Solas?

(I'm too lazy to backtrack)

I haven't played it myself yet and have heard conflicting things about it, so I can't really say. 

[Delphine]

I haven't played it myself yet and have heard conflicting things about it, so I can't really say. 

 

Quite interested in knowing how people would have conflicted opinions over this and what their arguments would be.

He's definitely not an ace to me, given the hints he can make at various times in the game about sexual intimacy (though anyone can headcanon him as ace and ignore these dialogue bits), but I strongly think he fits the demisexual definition for now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd still consider Gaider's WoG as WoG unless Weekes overrides them. 

 

That being said, the playersexuality thing has nothing to do with the fact that he didn't actually WoG that Merrill isn't demisexual.  I've never done the Solas romance, but Delphine seems to think that he would count as well. 

Gaider coming in here or answering a tweet about this would answer a lot of these questions. Or Mary Kirby since she wrote Merrill. 

 

Quite interested in knowing how people would have conflicted opinions over this and what their arguments would be.

He's definitely not an ace to me, given the hints he can make at various times in the game about sexual intimacy (though anyone can headcanon him as ace and ignore these dialogue bits), but I strongly think he fits the demisexual definition for now.

Yeah, I remember Patrick saying he can be considered asexual if the player wants, though I agree there are dialogues that suggest otherwise and unlike Josephine said dialogues aren't initiated by the player. Maybe if asked if Solas can be considered demisexual he may answer again. 

 

And it is too hard to say for certain since we don't know what the DLC may do to them. It can take something that is seen one way and completely ruin it(looking at you, ME3:Citadel).

[daveliam]

Gaider coming in here or answering a tweet about this would answer a lot of these questions. Or Mary Kirby since she wrote Merrill. 

 

Yeah, I remember Patrick saying he can be considered asexual if the player wants, though I agree there are dialogues that suggest otherwise and unlike Josephine said dialogues aren't initiated by the player. Maybe if asked if Solas can be considered demisexual he may answer again. 

 

And it is too hard to say for certain since we don't know what the DLC may do to them. It can take something that is seen one way and completely ruin it(looking at you, ME3:Citadel).

 

Mary might respond.  I feel like Gaider might be focused ahead, not back.  Plus, I got the feeling that he was kind of over the fandom before he left......

 

Who wrote Solas?  Was that Mary too?

[Delphine]

Who wrote Solas?  Was that Mary too?

 

Patrick Weekes also known as The Heartbreaker.

[GrayTimber]

I'm all for Demisexual/graysexual/asexual inclusions!

 

I'm asexual myself, so anything on the spectrum would make me beam. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Patrick Weekes also known as The Heartbreaker.

Between Solas and the relationship between Briala and Celene in Asunder, I can tell he's a true BioWare employee.  I think he feeds off of fan tears.  

[Allan Schumacher]

I totally agree.  I think it was his way of, not very eloquently, telling people that she was bisexual.  Period.  Not straight if you were a guy and bisexual or lesbian if you were a gal.  I don't think he's ever stated either way if she could be demisexual because I don't think he's really thought about it, to be honest.

 

I think part of it is in how you described the character here:

 

Straight if you were a guy.

Bisexual or lesbian is you were a gal.

 

 

I was open to the idea of of "Sure whatever, playersexual if that's what you want, it's all alternate universe stuff" I recanted on it, however, after talking with people. Bisexual erasure is pretty common and there's this weird notion that unless a person sees someone being unambiguously attracted to both a man and a woman, we can deny their bisexuality.  It also feeds into stereotypes of promiscuity too.  I know some bisexuals that get upset at the notion of their bisexuality being a "convenience" too, and it's something that bothers them.  My understanding is that bisexuals often get scrutinized by both heterosexual and homosexual people, and can be referred to as indecisive and greedy, so I can understand if there's some level of "Hmph."

 

As such, I'd rather be clearer about it and now echo that the love interests in DA2 all happened to be bisexual.

 

Demisexuality, as I understand it, is sexual attraction that isn't based on physical appearances, and yes I agree with your statement that it's on a different scale than heterosexual-heterosexual.  I don't see any contradiction in referring to Merrill as a demi bisexual, and that nothing in the game really contradicts that perspective.

[Grieving Natashina]

The term I've heard is bi-romantic.  She can have feelings for both genders, but it strikes me that she doesn't have very much of a sex drive unless she's in love.  I'm with dave and some of the other posters.  I'm betting that David hadn't even heard of the term demisexual much before, and probably didn't think of it.  I know he's left the project, but I wonder sometimes what he would say now.  I'm betting he would still stress that Merrill is into both genders regardless of player input, but he might be willing to consider the demisexual angle.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think part of it is in how you described the character here:

 

Straight if you were a guy.

Bisexual or lesbian is you were a gal.

 

 

I was open to the idea of of "Sure whatever, playersexual if that's what you want, it's all alternate universe stuff" I recanted on it, however, after talking with people. Bisexual erasure is pretty common and there's this weird notion that unless a person sees someone being unambiguously attracted to both a man and a woman, we can deny their bisexuality.  It also feeds into stereotypes of promiscuity too.  I know some bisexuals that get upset at the notion of their bisexuality being a "convenience" too, and it's something that bothers them.  My understanding is that bisexuals often get scrutinized by both heterosexual and homosexual people, and can be referred to as indecisive and greedy, so I can understand if there's some level of "Hmph."

 

As such, I'd rather be clearer about it and now echo that the love interests in DA2 all happened to be bisexual.

 

Demisexuality, as I understand it, is sexual attraction that isn't based on physical appearances, and yes I agree with your statement that it's on a different scale than heterosexual-heterosexual.  I don't see any contradiction in referring to Merrill as a demi bisexual, and that nothing in the game really contradicts that perspective.

First, welcome back Allan. I hope you are feeling better.

 

Second, thank you for posting here. And thank you for giving Merrill being demisexual up to "dev-supported headcanon status" as I refer to it. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So no other character ideas? 

[Seraphim24]

I know some bisexuals that get upset at the notion of their bisexuality being a "convenience" too, and it's something that bothers them.  My understanding is that bisexuals often get scrutinized by both heterosexual and homosexual people, and can be referred to as indecisive and greedy, so I can understand if there's some level of "Hmph."

 

I think Pansexuals might be in that category also.. kinda weird how homosexuals/bisexuals etc can find time to hate each other as if the hate from everyone else wasn't sufficient...

[ThreeF]

Quite interested in knowing how people would have conflicted opinions over this and what their arguments would be.

He's definitely not an ace to me, given the hints he can make at various times in the game about sexual intimacy (though anyone can headcanon him as ace and ignore these dialogue bits), but I strongly think he fits the demisexual definition for now.

I have not romanced hm, but   he considers sex a tool  and talk about sex in a very lustful voice when you take him to the Winter Palace and talk to him about things, so there is that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I have not romanced hm, but   he considers sex a tool  and talk about sex in a very lustful voice when you take him to the Winter Palace and talk to him about things, so there is that.

Yeah, that is one of the things I heard from people who disagree that he can be ace/demi/gray/etc. 

[Zobert]

I think part of it is in how you described the character here:

 

Straight if you were a guy.

Bisexual or lesbian is you were a gal.

 

 

I was open to the idea of of "Sure whatever, playersexual if that's what you want, it's all alternate universe stuff" I recanted on it, however, after talking with people. Bisexual erasure is pretty common and there's this weird notion that unless a person sees someone being unambiguously attracted to both a man and a woman, we can deny their bisexuality.  It also feeds into stereotypes of promiscuity too.  I know some bisexuals that get upset at the notion of their bisexuality being a "convenience" too, and it's something that bothers them.  My understanding is that bisexuals often get scrutinized by both heterosexual and homosexual people, and can be referred to as indecisive and greedy, so I can understand if there's some level of "Hmph."

 

As such, I'd rather be clearer about it and now echo that the love interests in DA2 all happened to be bisexual.

 

Demisexuality, as I understand it, is sexual attraction that isn't based on physical appearances, and yes I agree with your statement that it's on a different scale than heterosexual-heterosexual.  I don't see any contradiction in referring to Merrill as a demi bisexual, and that nothing in the game really contradicts that perspective.

 

 

So if it's not playersexual then all of the straight male gamers complaining about not being represented in the game were correct?

 

I ask because part of why there are exclusive LIs in Inquisition and an even (or attempt at) division was to show inclusivity, that means that neither gay males, lesbians, straight males or straight females were represented in Dragon Age 2 in the way that you've stated you wanted to show with Inquisition.

 

As a bisexual IRL I don't feel erased, although I hear that a lot from others.  The greedy thing yes, or that most people think you're "just passing through" a phase.  Bisexual males are often considered just "gay" and in denial from other gays, and bisexual females are often considered straight and doing it for show and sometimes if you choose to date the opposite sex after a same sex relationship you will lose friends who feel you've left them for the straight world.

 

That to me is not erasure but sour grapes.

 

That said, part of what sets back good relations with other groups is over-representation.  If having bisexual characters lessons the goodwill put to people like myself and others like me, I'd rather divvy out the LIs so that we don't own the entirety.

 

It actually now in light of what you said does feel a little bit of an FU to other groups in the way that it would be if a game was entirely heterosexual oriented.

 

At the end of the day we're all people, part of the same family and need to get along.  The comes through sharing and goodwill.

 

Just my two cents.

[Zobert]

There, your thread is started back up Hanako.

[Kulyok]

I believe it sounds rather hypocritical that the developers were "oh, we're not defining whether those DA2 love interests are playersexual, bisexual, straight or whatever have you, just play, buy our game, have fun" - before and right after the game became available. But a few years later, when the number of sales is not such an issue anymore, suddenly "yes, yes, we're very sensitive about inclusivity and erasure, please know that everyone is bisexual in DA2!" And, of course, the implicit "hey, everyone who shipped Harry and Hermione thought Anders, Isabela, Fenris and Merill were playersexual was wrong, wrong, and possibly is a bad person!"

 

That just feels wrong.

 

I think "everyone's romanceable by everyone" is a good approach, nothing wrong with it(though personally I'm much more comfortable with Solas as a romance interest - I know he romances elven females and that's it), but when the developers say one thing, then say the other, and it correlates with how long the game's been on the market, I do feel some second-hand embarrassment here.

[AWTEW]

Mary might respond. I feel like Gaider might be focused ahead, not back. Plus, I got the feeling that he was kind of over the fandom before he left......

Who wrote Solas? Was that Mary too?

Considering Tumblr, I dont think many people would be surprised if he 'kinda over the fandom'.

[Seraphim24]

Does anyone want to compile a list of characters perceived to be "demisexual" in fiction (video games or otherwise)? I'd be curious as a way to understand this subject matter. Then at least it would seem to me like oh, this character is perceived to fit the category even though it wasn't sort of "announced" to the world.

 

I'd guess a lot of CLAMP and (early) Final Fantasy characters might qualify if I had to guess (which I am guessing..), maybe some Disney ones also?

 

Elsa (from Frozen)

Terra, Celes, Aeris, Cecil and Rosa (FF4), Garnet (FF9), maybe uh Tidus and  Yuna (FFX). Perhaps Ashe in FFX12..

Syaoran and Sakura (Tsubasa), Lelouch, C2, and Kallen (Code Geass).

 

I guess maybe someone would perceive some to be from DA or BG or ME as well?

Thane, maybe Ashley..

Merrill from DA2.. Alistair? I don't know for sure..

Eh.. Minsc? Jaheira and Khalid? Kivan?

 

Maybe some Obsidian characters like Shannon Jero or something..

 

To be honest I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to say on the matter... because as I now also described below I'm just guessing what people are perceiving to be "demisexuality."

[Seraphim24]

I also thought this was interesting about the whole label debate, making a character that appears happens to be X, versus a character written to be X, and stuff like that.

 

http://www.polygon.c...at-we-get-wrong

[Vanth]

Elsa (from Frozen)

 

I have never played FF so can't comment on much of your list, but why would you include Elsa here? There is no indication of her sexuality in the movie whatsoever. Why would you presume her to be demisexual? I think this desire to label characters is getting a bit ridiculous. 

[Seraphim24]

I have never played FF so can't comment on much of your list, but why would you include Elsa here? There is no indication of her sexuality in the movie whatsoever. Why would you presume her to be demisexual? I think this desire to label characters is getting a bit ridiculous. 

 

I don't presume any of these characters to be anything, and it's not particularly my desire to label characters, I'm trying to understand other people's desire to label other characters by at least understanding what they would consider to be demisexual characters.

 

When I watched Frozen I was like oh that Elsa cool character, period, not a single thought given outside of that. I am presuming however, that some people would like to label her as such. When I played Baldur's Gate games or Mass Effect games I thought, these were cool characters period. That's me, but other people obviously don't seem to operate the same way.

 

It's literally just a question on my part, with some guesses, nothing more.

 

Finally as to why I would guess for Elsa well you answered that with

 

There is no indication of her sexuality in the movie whatsoever.

 

That's precisely why she seemed to fit the tenets of "demisexuality," she is largely a sex-less character for the most part.

 

Again though, I'm just raising a question... maybe I'll edit out the suggestions entirely, then people would not mistakenly assume things about my question.

[DomeWing333]

One character I can think of that has hints of demisexuality is Inara from Firefly. Which is hilarious because she also happens to be a space prostitute. 

[Commander of the Grey]

I have not romanced hm, but he considers sex a tool and talk about sex in a very lustful voice when you take him to the Winter Palace and talk to him about things, so there is that.

As an asexual myself, I always saw his comments at the Winter Palace as befitting someone considered a Trickster. He's obviously very good at twisting things to suit his purpose (giving the Quiz just enough information without revealing everything) and his dialogues with Sera about tactically turning things to her advantage in a not so nice way. Even his mental chess with IronBull. He loves manipulation, proving that he's smarter in very clever ways and I imagine he was 100 xs worse back in the day. Hot blooded and cocky as he puts it. Him being mentally stimulated by court intrigue and the deception, back stabbing and mind games doesn't necessarily mean it causes him physical stimulation regardless of how he says it.

And I'm in no way arguing that he's asexual. I'd rather he be defined that way by his writer than have to headcanon anything. But asexuals can flirt. They can tease. All that's missing (for most, not all in some cases I'm told) is physical arousal, whether completely or just toward other people.

I very much believe that Solas was a master manipulator in his younger days and that's what I took his dialogue to mean. Not that I think he's never had sex, I actually do, just that his words don't necessarily have to mean such given who he is.

And I'm also terrible at trying to explain things. *sigh*

But this topic isn't about Solas. Sorry. I was so happy to hear that Asexuality was being considered and I hope they find a way to do so. And for those hoping for demisexuality as well. ^.^

I don't ever expect it though but it would be a nice surprise.