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[ThreeF]

As an asexual myself, I always saw his comments at the Winter Palace as befitting someone considered a Trickster. He's obviously very good at twisting things to suit his purpose (giving the Quiz just enough information without revealing everything) and his dialogues with Sera about tactically turning things to her advantage in a not so nice way. Even his mental chess with IronBull. He loves manipulation, proving that he's smarter in very clever ways and I imagine he was 100 xs worse back in the day. Hot blooded and cocky as he puts it. Him being mentally stimulated by court intrigue and the deception, back stabbing and mind games doesn't necessarily mean it causes him physical stimulation regardless of how he says it.

 

No,  of course not, but it doesn't excludes it either. If he sees it as a tool, then it's possible that he had used it as such before, which means that he might be willing to have sex without attraction. I'm not entirely clear on what exactly demisexuity is, but this willingness might not fit the description.

[Commander of the Grey]

No, of course not, but it doesn't excludes it either. If he sees it as a tool, then it's possible that he had used it as such before, which means that he might be willing to have sex without attraction. I'm not entirely clear on what exactly demisexuity is, but this willingness might not fit the description.

I'm confused as to when he stated that sex is a tool to be used/that he's done so before? I've romanced him several times and never picked up on this.

But let's continue this in PM or the Solas thread if you'd like so this can stay on topic. I don't wanna get this one in trouble.

[ThreeF]

I'm confused as to when he stated that sex is a tool to be used/that he's done so before? I've romanced him several times and never picked up on this.

But let's continue this in PM or the Solas thread if you'd like so this can stay on topic. I don't wanna get this one in trouble.

There isn't much to say about it that has no been said by both of us, so I'm just going to repeat what I said before, he doesn't says this outright but his intonation implies this and as such it's a possibility.

 

And this is very much on topic, because I do want to get a better understanding as to what demisexuality means to people and whenever a possible willingness to have sex without attraction renders someone not demisexual, because so far all the definitions of demisexuality that I've seen were within the parameters of a romantic relationship, which seems to be rather conditional.

[Commander of the Grey]

There isn't much to say about it that has no been said by both of us, so I'm just going to repeat what I said before, he doesn't says this outright but his intonation implies this and as such it's a possibility.

And this is very much on topic, because I do want to get a better understanding as to what demisexuality means to people and whenever a possible willingness to have sex without attraction renders someone not demisexual, because so far all the definitions of demisexuality that I've seen were within the parameters of a romantic relationship, which seems to be rather conditional.

From what I understand (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong 'cuz I'd hate to be) is that the average person can be aroused by anyone at any given time under the right conditions. Physical attraction or stimulus or whatever. Demisexuals only expirience that with someone they've come to care for a great deal and have a bond with. Random sex doesn't work.

Someone in a romantic relationship can go out and cheat and have a random one night stand with a stranger just for giggles so it's not, in fact, the same thing in that sense.

[DirkJake]

 

I was open to the idea of of "Sure whatever, playersexual if that's what you want, it's all alternate universe stuff" I recanted on it, however, after talking with people. Bisexual erasure is pretty common and there's this weird notion that unless a person sees someone being unambiguously attracted to both a man and a woman, we can deny their bisexuality.  It also feeds into stereotypes of promiscuity too.  I know some bisexuals that get upset at the notion of their bisexuality being a "convenience" too, and it's something that bothers them.  My understanding is that bisexuals often get scrutinized by both heterosexual and homosexual people, and can be referred to as indecisive and greedy, so I can understand if there's some level of "Hmph."

 

As such, I'd rather be clearer about it and now echo that the love interests in DA2 all happened to be bisexual.

 

Demisexuality, as I understand it, is sexual attraction that isn't based on physical appearances, and yes I agree with your statement that it's on a different scale than heterosexual-heterosexual.  I don't see any contradiction in referring to Merrill as a demi bisexual, and that nothing in the game really contradicts that perspective.

 

I agree. I just prefer the idea that if you are going to represent bisexuality (or any sexuality) in your game, you should be clear and go all the way with it, rather than leaving the sexuality up to players to debate.  (Though there is nothing wrong with leaving sexuality ambiguous.)

 

And on Merrill, after spending time "studying" her romance on Youtube, I don't see anything much that contradicts demi-bisexual headcanon.

 

*spits out drink* Wow, this thread hasn't been closed from all the debating yet?

 

 

Surprisingly, this thread has turned into quite a nice and on-topic discussion as of late. I'm glad it stays open.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Surprisingly, this thread has turned into quite a nice and on-topic discussion as of late. I'm glad it stays open.

Me too.  Most of the conversation in the thread has been constructive and has had some pretty good ideas.  It's one of two threads I'm really reading on the DA forums at the moment.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Does anyone want to compile a list of characters perceived to be "demisexual" in fiction (video games or otherwise)? I'd be curious as a way to understand this subject matter. Then at least it would seem to me like oh, this character is perceived to fit the category even though it wasn't sort of "announced" to the world.

 

I'd guess a lot of CLAMP and (early) Final Fantasy characters might qualify if I had to guess (which I am guessing..), maybe some Disney ones also?

 

Elsa (from Frozen)

Terra, Celes, Aeris, Cecil and Rosa (FF4), Garnet (FF9), maybe uh Tidus and  Yuna (FFX). Perhaps Ashe in FFX12..

Syaoran and Sakura (Tsubasa), Lelouch, C2, and Kallen (Code Geass).

 

I guess maybe someone would perceive some to be from DA or BG or ME as well?

Thane, maybe Ashley..

Merrill from DA2.. Alistair? I don't know for sure..

Eh.. Minsc? Jaheira and Khalid? Kivan?

 

Maybe some Obsidian characters like Shannon Jero or something..

 

To be honest I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to say on the matter... because as I now also described below I'm just guessing what people are perceiving to be "demisexuality."

That's a good idea. I'll start going through the list of characters in media that I've personally seen as being demisexual, either intentionally or unintentionally, and give a little description of why. I'd rather do that then just make a list. It may take me a little bit to do though so be patient. 

 

I will say though that some of your guesses are on my list, so good job. Japanese media has been better at showing this than most other medias, which isn't surprising since some of them have shown interest in representing different sexualities for a while now. For example there have been some animes for example that have shown homosexuality without being a negative or stereotype decades before western media did the same. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay, here is the first character in media that through consuming all the information in the series leads me to think is demisexual. I will explain why in two parts: only developing feelings after forming a strong emotional bond and not showing primary sexual attraction. I decided to go with this one first since I figure everyone at least knows who he is so would be easier to talk about. The first video game character I think of when I think demisexual video game characters is Master Chief Petty Officer Spartan John-117.

 

 

First, I'll talk about how John only develops feelings towards people who he has developed strong emotional bonds with. Throughout the lore and history of the universe, Spartans have been shown to still develop feelings and sexual attraction and desires. For example one Spartan II retired from service so she could marry and have a family with a man she fell in love with. There are also cases where Spartans have slept around on shore leave with people they don't even know apart from their appearance. Spartans have also been attracted to other Spartan's appearances. While John has developed deep friendships with some of his fellow Spartans, John has only ever experienced an attraction to two people: fellow Spartan II Linda-058(whom ironically I also suspect is demisexual) and the AI Cortana.

 

With Linda, this occurred due to them being the best of the Spartan IIs, with John even admitting Linda is probably the best Spartan, thus being put on the same team and sent on missions together. While not as easily seen as with Cortana, during these missions you can tell that he sees Linda as more than a good friend like he does with the other Spartans in Blue Team, including those whom were part of his training team so has known for years longer so should have a deeper connection to them but doesn't. He has also shown to care for her by some of his actions. For example when one of his friends died, he was sad but carried on with the mission. However when Linda was seriously hurt John goes against orders, something he almost never does, to drag her to safety, begging her not to die as he put her in cryosleep to save her until she could receive medical attention. 

 

With Cortana, this is seen visually and heard audibly instead of just read due to Cortana being a main character in the games. As the series progresses, we see and hear John's feelings for Cortana change. In the first game, which is soon after they first met, the relationship is purely professional. In the second game, they are still mostly professional but you can see an emotional connection starting to form. The third game takes that further by them being more personal than professional with each other. Finally in the fourth game is where you see his emotional connection to her form an attraction to her, caring more for her well-being than one would expect from a mere friend, especially considering she is a machine. This comes to a head during Cortana's final moments, where you can hear the pain in John's voice and almost literally see his heart break as Cortana dies. This is a man whose entire life has seen nothing but war and death, and yet the only other time he reacts this way is when he thought he was going to lose Linda. As a comparison, we can look back at Halo 3 when one of John's close friends Sargeant Major Johnson dies. He is sad by the loss, but not nearly to the extent he is in the other examples. 

 

The second reason is his lack of primary sexual attraction, since this sets him apart from being someone who prefers to have an emotional connection before exploring these feelings. As we all know, Cortana took the visage of the silhouetted body of a naked woman. The reason she took this form is explained as most people would react to the attractiveness of her physical appearance, even for a fraction of a second. For an AI, that fraction of a second would be plenty of time to give her the upper hand in the conversation or whatever was going to happen. And yet when she and John first meet, he doesn't react at all to her appearance. He sees her, and continues like it was nothing. 

[Seraphim24]

 

Okay, here is the first character in media that through consuming all the information in the series leads me to think is demisexual. I will explain why in two parts: only developing feelings after forming a strong emotional bond and not showing primary sexual attraction. I decided to go with this one first since I figure everyone at least knows who he is so would be easier to talk about. The first video game character I think of when I think demisexual video game characters is Master Chief Petty Officer Spartan John-117.

 

 

First, I'll talk about how John only develops feelings towards people who he has developed strong emotional bonds with. Throughout the lore and history of the universe, Spartans have been shown to still develop feelings and sexual attraction and desires. For example one Spartan II retired from service so she could marry and have a family with a man she fell in love with. There are also cases where Spartans have slept around on shore leave with people they don't even know apart from their appearance. Spartans have also been attracted to other Spartan's appearances. While John has developed deep friendships with some of his fellow Spartans, John has only ever experienced an attraction to two people: fellow Spartan II Linda-058(whom ironically I also suspect is demisexual) and the AI Cortana.

 

With Linda, this occurred due to them being the best of the Spartan IIs, with John even admitting Linda is probably the best Spartan, thus being put on the same team and sent on missions together. While not as easily seen as with Cortana, during these missions you can tell that he sees Linda as more than a good friend like he does with the other Spartans in Blue Team, including those whom were part of his training team so has known for years longer so should have a deeper connection to them but doesn't. He has also shown to care for her by some of his actions. For example when one of his friends died, he was sad but carried on with the mission. However when Linda was seriously hurt John goes against orders, something he almost never does, to drag her to safety, begging her not to die as he put her in cryosleep to save her until she could receive medical attention. 

 

With Cortana, this is seen visually and heard audibly instead of just read due to Cortana being a main character in the games. As the series progresses, we see and hear John's feelings for Cortana change. In the first game, which is soon after they first met, the relationship is purely professional. In the second game, they are still mostly professional but you can see an emotional connection starting to form. The third game takes that further by them being more personal than professional with each other. Finally in the fourth game is where you see his emotional connection to her form an attraction to her, caring more for her well-being than one would expect from a mere friend, especially considering she is a machine. This comes to a head during Cortana's final moments, where you can hear the pain in John's voice and almost literally see his heart break as Cortana dies. This is a man whose entire life has seen nothing but war and death, and yet the only other time he reacts this way is when he thought he was going to lose Linda. As a comparison, we can look back at Halo 3 when one of John's close friends Sargeant Major Johnson dies. He is sad by the loss, but not nearly to the extent he is in the other examples. 

 

The second reason is his lack of primary sexual attraction, since this sets him apart from being someone who prefers to have an emotional connection before exploring these feelings. As we all know, Cortana took the visage of the silhouetted body of a naked woman. The reason she took this form is explained as most people would react to the attractiveness of her physical appearance, even for a fraction of a second. For an AI, that fraction of a second would be plenty of time to give her the upper hand in the conversation or whatever was going to happen. And yet when she and John first meet, he doesn't react at all to her appearance. He sees her, and continues like it was nothing. 

 

 

Well! I wasn't expecting Halo to be honest, but it was interesting to read and see why he qualifies as demisexual. The thing that struck me in this case was that there was zero sexual interest even though she was dressed very provocatively and all that. Then, only after an extensive connection with a person that has a lot of emotional connotations and aspects does the person finally have the possibility of sexual attraction.

 

I'm (personally) interested to read more of these kinds of things if anyone wants to make more of them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well! I wasn't expecting Halo to be honest, but it was interesting to read and see why he qualifies as demisexual. The thing that struck me in this case was that there was zero sexual interest even though she was dressed very provocatively and all that. Then, only after an extensive connection with a person that has a lot of emotional connotations and aspects does the person finally have the possibility of sexual attraction.

 

I'm (personally) interested to read more of these kinds of things if anyone wants to make more of them.

I'm glad you enjoyed the read. I'll do more later. 

[veeia]

I haven't actually played Halo....sorry, fake gaymer girl, etc. But that was an interesting read, and I think will be helpful for people!  

[o Ventus]

Yeah, Chief is so demisexual that he never expresses any desires for any character in the entire series, ever. He has nothing resembling a personality to even speak of until the latter half of Halo 3 and into Halo 4, and even then the only emotion he ever expresses (as well as can be expressed through his helmet via body language) is sorrow over the death of Johnson and Cortana's sacrifice.

 

I've heard some pretty out-there ideas and theories, but this one is just stupid. Chief deliberately has little personality for the same reason his face is never seen: so the player can insert themselves into his shoes and imagine themselves as Chief. At least, that was the case up until Halo 4 when they decided to humanize him a bit.

 

In the extended universe, Chief's extent of emotion is still largely limited to sorrow, when he loses a fellow SPARTAN in combat or a friend is killed. That doesn't make him demisexual (ugh), that makes him a normal human being with a conscience, because people he knows on a first-name basis are killed in front of his eyes by inhuman alien fanatics.

[AresKeith]

Even I have to admit Master Chief being demisexual is pretty out-there 

[Saphiron123]

Demisexual is a made up term... At this point I'm waiting for a tumblr user who identifies as a deerkin to request a deerkin LI.

Tumblr is a weird place.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Demisexual is a made up term... At this point I'm waiting for a tumblr user who identifies as a deerkin to request a deerkin LI.

Tumblr is a weird place.

All terms are made up terms. It's part of developing a language. You have to create a term to refer to a thing. 

 

Never been on Tumblr so can't say. 

[o Ventus]

All terms are made up terms. It's part of developing a language. You have to create a term to refer to a thing. 

 

Never been on Tumblr so can't say. 

Come off it, you know what he meant.

 

Demisexuality is "made up" in the sense that it was invented by a 15-year old girl for a role-playing forum. She made up an anime character to portray, and created the term "demisexual" to describe them.

 

 

^ a screenshot of said RP forum, from the person who invented the term. I'm not the one who took the picture, unfortunately, so mind the quality. Even though the quality is fairly low, it's clearly visible and easy to read. I did go into MSpaint and black out some NSFW bits so I could post the picture and not get a warning point.

 

http://factualwiley.tumblr.com/archive

 

^ used to be a moderator on that RP site, and apologizes for the coining of the term "demisexual". Their Tumblr has since been deleted, but an archive of their posts and uploads has been kept (which is what I linked). See it all for yourself. Also, the unedited version of the screenshot I posted above can be found in the archive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Come off it, you know what he meant.

I know what he meant, but I disagree with it and what he meant doesn't matter since every term is a man-made construct to identify something. 

[drummerchick]

The fact that people have adopted the term and use it to define themselves validates it as a part of our lexicon, regardless of it being coined by a 15 year old.

If you want to get nit-picky about made up words, go after portmanteaus like "ginormous."  Smushing words together is just lazy.  

[DomeWing333]

I do think that "demisexual" is a weird term for it though. It seems a bit arbitrary to declare sexual attraction due to emotional attachment to be halfway between sexuality and asexuality when there are so many other things that factor into sexual attraction. A more descriptive term like "amisexual" would work better since it indicates a sexuality that's specifically related to friendship.

[Lady Artifice]

Would you say that ginormous is, therefore, terribad?

I'll show myself out.

[cindercatz]

edit: ^Cute post btw ^

 

Demi- meaning 'between' is probably a bad descriptor, but that in no way invalidates what is actually meant by the term. It does seem broad, and last night was the first time I was made aware of it as a classification, here. But it's definitely real, from my experience. Overt sexual attraction does come naturally secondary to emotional or psychological attraction for some, and more primarily for other people. Or even to the extent that it may generally only fall after strong emotional attachment. So wherever it comes from, how broad it might be, is irrelevant because it is real. It's useful like the op describes. Anything that helps people understand themselves and other people is a good concept to acknowledge and try to understand. I don't think a sliding scale is really a great model for sexuality in general, but it's still a useful conceptual tool, even if the 'range' concept doesn't really do the best job, or even a very good job of objectively describing sexual psychology. So what if the term itself is a little bit misleading, taken purely literally? It wouldn't be the first english word to break the dictionary a little bit, would it?

 

Kudos on the eye opening thread. That Master Chief post was interesting too btw, never looked at it like that before. Very interesting insight. I'm looking forward to seeing more of them. ^^

[Vulkan Lives]

What's with the invention of pronouns these days? Call me insensitive, but Demisexuality to me just sounds like how normal relationships work: you meet someone, talk to them, become friends, form an emotional connection, think of them as more than friends, sometimes they reciprocate and so on.