1942 réponses à ce sujet

[RevilFox]

I've been away from these boards for about six months (although I've checked in once in a while), but I have to say I'm extremely pleased to see that this thread is still alive. Unless it's devolved into something horrific (I haven't ready any of the last few pages), then good on everyone for keeping the discussion going.

[RevilFox]

I'm all for Demisexual/graysexual/asexual inclusions!

 

I'm asexual myself, so anything on the spectrum would make me beam. 

 

Sort of random aside, but have you seen the show Sirens from USA Network? The character Valentina is, by far, the best representation of an asexual character I've ever seen on TV. 

 

http://www.slate.com...ought_them.html

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've been away from these boards for pretty much a year (although I've checked in once in a while), but I have to say I'm extremely pleased to see that this thread is still alive. Unless it's devolved into something horrific (I haven't ready any of the last few pages), then good on everyone for keeping the discussion going.

RevilFox! You're back! How is everything? 

 

No, it's fine. It got bad for a little while but thankfully it course corrected.

[RevilFox]

RevilFox! You're back! How is everything? 

 

No, it's fine. It got bad for a little while but thankfully it course corrected.

Everything is great. In case anyone remembers, I left the the boards the week the game came out because my 9 month old son needed craniofacial surgery. He's 14 months old now, and doing fantastic. He's healing great, he's developing ahead of most kids who didn't have the surgery. I couldn't be happier about how things have gone.

 

It sucks that this thread went through it's dark times, but I suppose that was pretty much inevitable eventually. Glad it's seeing the other side though. It's an important discussion. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Everything is great. In case anyone remembers, I left the the boards the week the game came out because my 9 month old son needed craniofacial surgery. He's 14 months old now, and doing fantastic. He's healing great, he's developing ahead of most kids who didn't have the surgery. I couldn't be happier about how things have gone.

 

It sucks that this thread went through it's dark times, but I suppose that was pretty much inevitable eventually. Glad it's seeing the other side though. It's an important discussion. 

That's great news. I'm glad your son is doing okay.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well sexual arousal is defined as an increase in sexual desire, isn't it? When a person is sexually aroused, they seek release for those sensations and we call that seeking of release "sexual desire."

They are closely related, but are different things. For example an asexual person has no desire to have sex for pleasure, however they can still become aroused if their body is stimulated in those ways.

[otis0310]

I've been away from these boards for about six months (although I've checked in once in a while), but I have to say I'm extremely pleased to see that this thread is still alive. Unless it's devolved into something horrific (I haven't ready any of the last few pages), then good on everyone for keeping the discussion going.

 

To be honest I am surprised it is still going since it seems a silly idea. Not that I am against it philosphically.  But from a writing stand point it seems next to impossible. Sure you could do it in a book, but in a book you hvae an inner monologue you could work on, not so in in this case.  As a result, according to what I understand of the concept of being demisexual, it would be impossible to tell the difference between a demisexual and someone playing hard to get.

 

In a demisexual person sexual attraction is only present if they already have a relationship with the person.  I cannot see how an outsider would interpet them as being demisexual.  I think most people would see someone who found the player very hot the split second they saw them, but is a little old fashioned and has learned to control their urges.

 

I mean sure there is a HUGE difference in the mind of the character, but to an outside observer like the player I doubt they would interpret it that way. There could be a thousand different explanations form being old fashioned, to having reservations about your gender/race, or just giving a bad first impression that could explain their beviour.  I mean any of  these reasons would make person behave and speak just like a demisexual person logically would, and not one of those things would make me think the person is demisxual.

 

It is easy to get across that someone is gay.  But getting across that a person is demisexual, no, no one would say "Hey they are demisexual".  More likely they would look at that same person and say "Hey, they are old fashioned" or "Hey, they are playing hard to get."

 

That is why I thnk it silly, because I cannot even begin to imagine how this character could be written.

[RevilFox]

To be honest I am surprised it is still going since it seems a silly idea. Not that I am against it philosphically.  But from a writing stand point it seems next to impossible. Sure you could do it in a book, but in a book you hvae an inner monologue you could work on, not so in in this case.  As a result, according to what I understand of the concept of being demisexual, it would be impossible to tell the difference between a demisexual and someone playing hard to get.

 

In a demisexual person sexual attraction is only present if they already have a relationship with the person.  I cannot see how an outsider would interpet them as being demisexual.  I think most people would see someone who found the player very hot the split second they saw them, but is a little old fashioned and has learned to control their urges.

 

I mean sure there is a HUGE difference in the mind of the character, but to an outside observer like the player I doubt they would interpret it that way. There could be a thousand different explanations form being old fashioned, to having reservations about your gender/race, or just giving a bad first impression that could explain their beviour.  I mean any of  these reasons would make person behave and speak just like a demisexual person logically would, and not one of those things would make me think the person is demisxual.

 

It is easy to get across that someone is gay.  But getting across that a person is demisexual, no, no one would say "Hey they are demisexual".  More likely they would look at that same person and say "Hey, they are old fashioned" or "Hey, they are playing hard to get."

 

That is why I thnk it silly, because I cannot even begin to imagine how this character could be written.

If you've played DA2, then you can easily see how the character could be written. If it weren't for Word of God, Merrill would be Demisexual. 

 

If they wanted to make it obvious, there could be a romance option early on with that character, and they could pretty easily say something to the effect of, "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them." Would everyone know that character was Demisexual? No. Would someone who is Demisexual know that the character was Demisexual? Probably. More importantly, someone who has no idea that they are Demisexual might look at that character and think, "Oh, they're just like me! I thought I was the only one!" Because when you're growing up as someone who fits outside the normal heterosexual (and in this day and age, homosexual) preferences, it's very easy to think you're alone in the world when every character in every form of media fits into one of the three or four boxes we create for them. I can't remember who said it, but someone on this board said, of LGBT representation, (I'm paraphrasing), "Bad representation is better than no representation." 

 

That really stuck with me, because on the surface it sounds so utterly wrong. But when you think about it, no representation may leave you feeling alone. Bad representation will at least let you know that there are other people out there like you, and might cause you to go looking for answers to questions you didn't even realize you had. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If you've played DA2, then you can easily see how the character could be written. If it weren't for Word of God, Merrill would be Demisexual. 

 

If they wanted to make it obvious, there could be a romance option early on with that character, and they could pretty easily say something to the effect of, "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them." Would everyone know that character was Demisexual? No. Would someone who is Demisexual know that the character was Demisexual? Probably. More importantly, someone who has no idea that they are Demisexual might look at that character and think, "Oh, they're just like me! I thought I was the only one!" Because when you're growing up as someone who fits outside the normal heterosexual (and in this day and age, homosexual) preferences, it's very easy to think you're alone in the world when every character in every form of media fits into one of the three or four boxes we create for them. I can't remember who said it, but someone on this board said, of LGBT representation, (I'm paraphrasing), "Bad representation is better than no representation." 

 

That really stuck with me, because on the surface it sounds so utterly wrong. But when you think about it, no representation may leave you feeling alone. Bad representation will at least let you know that there are other people out there like you, and might cause you to go looking for answers to questions you didn't even realize you had. 

Wonderfully put. I agree entirely. Even if everyone, or even most people don't recognize it but demisexuals or people who are like them but don't know the term like I was see it and have that connection, it'd be worth it. 

[otis0310]

If you've played DA2, then you can easily see how the character could be written. If it weren't for Word of God, Merrill would be Demisexual. 

 

If they wanted to make it obvious, there could be a romance option early on with that character, and they could pretty easily say something to the effect of, "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them." Would everyone know that character was Demisexual? No. Would someone who is Demisexual know that the character was Demisexual? Probably. More importantly, someone who has no idea that they are Demisexual might look at that character and think, "Oh, they're just like me! I thought I was the only one!" Because when you're growing up as someone who fits outside the normal heterosexual (and in this day and age, homosexual) preferences, it's very easy to think you're alone in the world when every character in every form of media fits into one of the three or four boxes we create for them. I can't remember who said it, but someone on this board said, of LGBT representation, (I'm paraphrasing), "Bad representation is better than no representation." 

 

That really stuck with me, because on the surface it sounds so utterly wrong. But when you think about it, no representation may leave you feeling alone. Bad representation will at least let you know that there are other people out there like you, and might cause you to go looking for answers to questions you didn't even realize you had. 

According to the wiktionary.

 

Adjective

demisexual (comparative more demisexual, superlative most demisexual)

(of humans) Sexually attracted to people only after a strong emotional bond has been formed.

 

 

So in the case of Merrill she could have HAD sexual feelings towards the player long before she expressed them.  However, she only EXPRESSED those feeling after a while.  If this is the case she is not demisexual , she is just shy.  She would only be demisexual if she never even had those feelings before.  The question is how do you know if she never had those feelings at all, or if she never expressed them.

 

It is the difference between never having those feelings until now and never expressing them until now that determines whether or not she is demisexual.  Demisexual people never even have those feelings to express until they are close to someone.  A shy person has them to express, but does not.

 

Since we cannot read her mind, how can we tell the difference?  She could have had those feelings all along but was too shy to tell us, in which case she is not demisexual.  We have no way of knowing if that was the case.

 

If they wanted to make it obvious, there could be a romance option early on with that character, and they could pretty easily say something to the effect of, "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them."

You are not describing demisexuallity here.

 

Basically if you find Megan Fox hot, then you are not demisexual unless you are her close friend.  Because demisexual people only form sexual feelings for people who they already know.

 

Did you ever meet Megan Fox let alone become her friend?  No.

Do you find her sexually attractive?  Yes.

 

Then you are not demisexual.  Because if you were, the second answer in so simply because the first answer is no.

 

What you are defining as demisexual is instead this:

 

Do you find Megan Fox sexually attractive? Yes

Would you hop in bed with her if she begged you to? No, because "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them."

 

You are not demisexual.  You are old fashioned.  Old fashioned people say "I do not sleep with someone other than my wife/husband, and that means my girlfriend/boyfriend.  We must be wed first."  Which is another way of saying they they only get errr....close to someone if they are already close to them.

 

Why are you not demisexual?  Simple.

 

You do not know Megan Fox, but you still find her hot.  If you would jump in bed with her or not is irrelelvant.  The fact is you STILL find her hot.

You formed sexual feelings for her without having an emotional bond.  (You find her hot despite not knowing her).

As a result you cannot be demisexual.

A demisexual person would not find her hot because they have no emotional bond.

 

There is, of course a world of difference between not finding someone sexually attractive because you do not know them well, and not wanting to sleep with someone because you do not know them well.

 

Demisexual people, according to my understanding of the wiktionary, meet the first criteria, not the second.

But what you quoted as demisexuality was the second.

[Seraphim24]

If you've played DA2, then you can easily see how the character could be written. If it weren't for Word of God, Merrill would be Demisexual. 

 

If they wanted to make it obvious, there could be a romance option early on with that character, and they could pretty easily say something to the effect of, "I'm flattered, but I really need to get close to someone before I...uh...get close to them." Would everyone know that character was Demisexual? No. Would someone who is Demisexual know that the character was Demisexual? Probably. More importantly, someone who has no idea that they are Demisexual might look at that character and think, "Oh, they're just like me! I thought I was the only one!" Because when you're growing up as someone who fits outside the normal heterosexual (and in this day and age, homosexual) preferences, it's very easy to think you're alone in the world when every character in every form of media fits into one of the three or four boxes we create for them. I can't remember who said it, but someone on this board said, of LGBT representation, (I'm paraphrasing), "Bad representation is better than no representation." 

 

Yeah I mean it's kinda weird how people could not fit into either A) Mainstream relations or B ) burgeoning non-standard forms of representation... like still.. you know?

 

I must confess I'm starting to find this topic somewhat fascinating... I'm actually building a theory that suggests that asexuality/demisexuality is a brand of hypersexuality. The essence being they are so attuned and sensitive towards sex (or pleasure generally) that they paradoxically have so little interest a lot of the time because they try and steer it towards moments of extreme ecstatic bliss built upon layers of context, rather than the notion that they are simply unsexual or uninterested in sex or attraction.

 

I don't really want to get into the details though because I'm not really sure of it myself right now, but yeah the basic idea is that promiscuity (or just general sexual activity/frequency) is actually somewhat inversely proportional to a person's sexual appetite (paradoxically).

 

Secondarily I get the sense those identifying as "demisexual" tend to have as much in common with mainstream relationship type people as they do everyone else.

[daveliam]

I'm still not understanding in any way why Merrill isn't considered demisexual. Gaider's WoG did not address the ways in which she forms sexual attraction so I don't see why she doesn't count. His 'just bisexual' quote was in reference to her being playersexual and, thus, could potentially be different sexualities in different playthroughs. He was clarifying that her sexuality doesn't change and is 'just bisexual' in all playthroughs. He wasn't talking about her placement on a romantic spectrum. There's nothing in or out of game in the lore to refute or support Merrill being demisexual. I think it's fair to interpret it as her being demibisexual.

[Abelas Forever!]

I'm still not understanding in any way why Merrill isn't considered demisexual. Gaider's WoG did not address the ways in which she forms sexual attraction so I don't see why she doesn't count. His 'just bisexual' quote was in reference to her being playersexual and, thus, could potentially be different sexualities in different playthroughs. He was clarifying that her sexuality doesn't change and is 'just bisexual' in all playthroughs. He wasn't talking about her placement on a romantic spectrum. There's nothing in or out of game in the lore to refute or support Merrill being demisexual. I think it's fair to interpret it as her being demibisexual.

I have no idea in what situation he made that statement but I assume it was after the game was released? I'm just thinking about the possibility that if he would have said in that statement that she is demisexual then that would have probably confused a lot of people because they might not know  what demisexual mean. Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if there is a demisexual LI in next DA game.

[otis0310]

I'm still not understanding in any way why Merrill isn't considered demisexual. Gaider's WoG did not address the ways in which she forms sexual attraction so I don't see why she doesn't count. His 'just bisexual' quote was in reference to her being playersexual and, thus, could potentially be different sexualities in different playthroughs. He was clarifying that her sexuality doesn't change and is 'just bisexual' in all playthroughs. He wasn't talking about her placement on a romantic spectrum. There's nothing in or out of game in the lore to refute or support Merrill being demisexual. I think it's fair to interpret it as her being demibisexual.

 

I think you are right, it is fair to interpret her as demisexual.

 

However it is also just as fair to interpret her as being  a very shy bisexual.

 

As I said above, the way she is written could go either way, we have no way of knowing.   Without reading her thoughts all we have to go on is her behaviour, which could be interpreted in many different ways.  The fact that her behaviour would be interpreted in different ways is, in my opinion,  what makes writing such a character next to impossible. 

 

After all, most would consider Merril shy, not demisexual.  This would go for all other demisexual characters was well, that their actions would not be interpreted as them being demisexual, it would be interpreted as being something different, despite the writer's intentions.

[daveliam]

I have no idea in what situation he made that statement but I assume it was after the game was released? I'm just thinking about the possibility that if he would have said in that statement that she is demisexual then that would have probably confused a lot of people because they might not know  what demisexual mean. Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if there is a demisexual LI in next DA game.

I think you are right, it is fair to interpret her as demisexual.

 

However it is also just as fair to interpret her as being  a very shy bisexual.

 

As I said above, the way she is written could go either way, we have no way of knowing.   Without reading her thoughts all we have to go on is her behaviour, which could be interpreted in many different ways.  The fact that her behaviour would be interpreted in different ways is, in my opinion,  what makes writing such a character next to impossible. 

 

After all, most would consider Merril shy, not demisexual.  This would go for all other demisexual characters was well, that their actions would not be interpreted as them being demisexual, it would be interpreted as being something different, despite the writer's intentions.

 

Agreed with both of you.  I don't think that she's definitely demisexual.  But I also don't think that WoG has eliminated that possibility either.  Gaider has made no statements at all about whether she's demisexual or not.  So, given her behavior in game, I think it's fair for people to consider her demisexual.  I also think it's fair for people to say they don't think she is.  However, in that latter case, it should be because of their own reasons and not because someone says that Gaider said that she's not demisexual.  Because that never happened.  That's really all I'm saying. 

[esper]

@Kefka, I can tell you that your theory is not true.

 

A lot of Ace and or grey ace have a inverted revelation of their sexuality. They don't discover that they are asexual they discover that the majority of the World is sexual.

 

I spend 21 years of my life not understanding the Whole idea of hotness. (To take the Meg Ryan, I havve never found any actor hot or couldn't understand my peers who did),

 

Will they or won't They plot left me utterly confused (and still do, but now I understand the mechanics somewhat even if I still think it is boring) because I  didn't understand the idea of sexual tension. It being something I have never experienced.

 

I was utterly convinced that writers just wrote such thing because they thought they had to and nobody in real life really experienced it. So too where one night stands a mystical thing that no real person would ever do, because as far as I was concerned there was nothing to be gained from it.

 

When my friends joked about sex I thought they were just being lewd because it is sort of taboo and Thus funny. I really thought that the rest of the World thought sex to be as boring and a non entity as I did.

 

I can't quite recall what made me realize that sexual desire is a thing people can actually feel and not just a work of fiction, but I know from AVEN that it is not just me who have had such an inverted realisation that sexual desire is actually a real thing and to be honest I still have trouble wrapping my brain around how it works.

[Seraphim24]

@Kefka, I can tell you that your theory is not true.

 

A lot of Ace and or grey ace have a inverted revelation of their sexuality. They don't discover that they are asexual they discover that the majority of the World is sexual.

 

I spend 21 years of my life not understanding the Whole idea of hotness. (To take the Meg Ryan, I havve never found any actor hot or couldn't understand my peers who did),

 

Will they or won't They plot left me utterly confused (and still do, but now I understand the mechanics somewhat even if I still think it is boring) because I  didn't understand the idea of sexual tension. It being something I have never experienced.

 

I was utterly convinced that writers just wrote such thing because they thought they had to and nobody in real life really experienced it. So too where one night stands a mystical thing that no real person would ever do, because as far as I was concerned there was nothing to be gained from it.

 

When my friends joked about sex I thought they were just being lewd because it is sort of taboo and Thus funny. I really thought that the rest of the World thought sex to be as boring and a non entity as I did.

 

I can't quite recall what made me realize that sexual desire is a thing people can actually feel and not just a work of fiction, but I know from AVEN that it is not just me who have had such an inverted realisation that sexual desire is actually a real thing and to be honest I still have trouble wrapping my brain around how it works.

 

I'm not really sure that disproves the theory.. you can have moments where you think sexual desire is just distasteful but that could really just be you in that moment and what you mean is you want it to be a really good moment and not a throw away thing.

 

I'm still not understanding in any way why Merrill isn't considered demisexual. Gaider's WoG did not address the ways in which she forms sexual attraction so I don't see why she doesn't count. His 'just bisexual' quote was in reference to her being playersexual and, thus, could potentially be different sexualities in different playthroughs. He was clarifying that her sexuality doesn't change and is 'just bisexual' in all playthroughs. He wasn't talking about her placement on a romantic spectrum. There's nothing in or out of game in the lore to refute or support Merrill being demisexual. I think it's fair to interpret it as her being demibisexual.

 

Merrill (like many characters) strikes me as written to fulfill the perception of a kind of personality without necessarily capturing the essence of that personality. A/Demisexuals must be timid/awkward/shy and extremely reluctant to approach sex and only cautiously and warily approach the subject matter. 

 

Merrill is like every other character in DA:2, she shags just about everyone with such minimal prompting, "shy and timid" persona aside. Honestly pretty much all the characters in DA2 are basically the same essential character, the high strung over dramatic Bioware sarcasm assassin or their permanently unsure/unstable sidekick milky McMilktoast. Regardless of where they fit exactly, they basically all act pretty much identically and uniformly with respect to sex.

 

Incidentally I am not sure why demi/asexuality should be equated with timidity or shyness, it seems to me that can be almost supernaturally aggressive, it's just they desire sex in a specific way.

[esper]

It is not thinking that sexual desire is distasteful (In fact I personally is in it is super boring category). 

 

It is not being aware that it exist or is something other people feel. That is why I talked about an inverted realization. It is not that I realized that I was a (grey) Ace, but that I realized that sexual desire was a thing other people actually felt.

 

As said I truely thought that it was just a work of fiction until then and I know others on AVEN who had the same realisation of "WTF, sex is actually a thing people want?"

 

 

(pure) Ace people don't want sex. At best they find sex boring and a core to be with somebody they love. It is not just having  specific desires or demands of a partner. 

 

When it comes to demi-sexuality and the grey area of being ace it gets a lot more complicated. I am not sure how to do a confirmed demi-sexual character without having the character outright say demi-sexual in a video game where we don't get the internal thoughts, because being demi is not the same as being timid and shy and I think that for such a touchy subject I would actually like a character who is confident in who they are - to avoid the unfortunate implications.

 

I don't personally find Merill demi, I am sure she has a banter somewhere about the Qunari being attractive (or easy on the eyes).

[Seraphim24]

It is not thinking that sexual desire is distasteful (In fact I personally is in it is super boring category). 

 

It is not being aware that it exist or is something other people feel. That is why I talked about an inverted realization. It is not that I realized that I was a (grey) Ace, but that I realized that sexual desire was a thing other people actually felt.

 

As said I truely thought that it was just a work of fiction until then and I know others on AVEN who had the same realisation of "WTF, sex is actually a thing people want?"

 

 

(pure) Ace people don't want sex. At best they find sex boring and a core to be with somebody they love. It is not just having  specific desires or demands of a partner. 

 

When it comes to demi-sexuality and the grey area of being ace it gets a lot more complicated. I am not sure how to do a confirmed demi-sexual character without having the character outright say demi-sexual in a video game where we don't get the internal thoughts, because being demi is not the same as being timid and shy and I think that for such a touchy subject I would actually like a character who is confident in who they are - to avoid the unfortunate implications.

 

I don't personally find Merill demi, I am sure she has a banter somewhere about the Qunari being attractive (or easy on the eyes).

 

I'm just postulating that this "sex? What is that? Sounds boring" comes from a massive intense sexual appetite, not the absence thereof. I mean, I already said it was paradoxical right? If people weren't aware of that possibility at all they might just assume they have zero sexual desire at all, it takes certain context and understanding to appreciate that it's there (IMO). I think it works like, unless the possibility for sex is this extreme spiritual experience the brain just turns off entirely and rejects everything as unsatisfactory (the state of mind you report yourself to be in frequently or always)

 

There are other aspects to this idea I haven't really gotten into, but yeah they involve other dimensions of sexuality and might make more sense then. Not to mention if I am correct demisexuals (or whatever we call people like them) would be in an almost infinitely rare category of person and likely never really realizing what they are and as such that they find themselves in the above state almost constantly.

[esper]

How do you move from super boring to intense appitete? How can something that you find boring be something you have a deep want for? It is not about context or even a spiritual attraction. And it is not the experience of finding it unsatisfactory per se. (I have troube wording this in English, but I will try).

 

It is about the feeling of sexual attraction just not being there. (And Again I would remind you that I am in the grey area myself).

 

I hate to use this analogy, because has some unfortunate consequences, but it is a good explanation of why it is so difficult for ace and sexuals to communicate about the difference. To think of it as the difference between being born blind and being born with sight. 

 

The blind person (and here we imagine it them being blind to light and shadows too) would never be able to describe what they see, because they don't see. Now they will eventually learn the rest of the World can see and have a theorectical understanding of what sight is, but it will ultimately be meaningless for them. At the same time the person born with sight cannot imagine how the blind person 'see' on anything other than a theorectical knowlegde, the closet thing they properly can come would be to imagine it as 'darkness', but that distinction would be meanignless to the blind since they have never experience light. 

 

Then of course we have all the grey areas, with people being able to see under specfic condition (demi) or only being partially blind (grey) or just having a really bad eyesight (greyish too and low libido, I guess)

 

You think spiritual (or romantic, which is the more political accurate word) attraction as something that can be equated to physical attraction but it is not (as the existance of aro people proves), it is a different form for attraction all together. It is my perception (though I might be biased) that sexual people have a difficulty sensing the difference, since for them sexual attraction and romantic attraction is intertwined.

 

(pure) Ace people are not just really picky about sex or need and intense spiritual experience to be sexually satisfied, the ability of feeling a sexual attraction (towards other people) is just not there neither physical nor emotional.

 

I can find people attractive romantically, but I cannot find them attractive sexually. The ability to feel sexual attraction towards other people is not there.

 

Demi can find people attractive sexually, but they need the right conditions.

 

Grey ace is where all the confusing mess which is neither fully on thing nor another is and there is no catch all description for them.    

 

(Oh and I hope I doesn't come off as rude. It is just rare to have an opportunity to discuss these things).

[Seraphim24]

How do you move from super boring to intense appitete? How can something that you find boring be something you have a deep want for? It is not about context or even a spiritual attraction. And it is not the experience of finding it unsatisfactory per se. (I have troube wording this in English, but I will try).

 

It is about the feeling of sexual attraction just not being there. (And Again I would remind you that I am in the grey area myself).

 

I hate to use this analogy, because has some unfortunate consequences, but it is a good explanation of why it is so difficult for ace and sexuals to communicate about the difference. To think of it as the difference between being born blind and being born with sight. 

 

The blind person (and here we imagine it them being blind to light and shadows too) would never be able to describe what they see, because they don't see. Now they will eventually learn the rest of the World can see and have a theorectical understanding of what sight is, but it will ultimately be meaningless for them. At the same time the person born with sight cannot imagine how the blind person 'see' on anything other than a theorectical knowlegde, the closet thing they properly can come would be to imagine it as 'darkness', but that distinction would be meanignless to the blind since they have never experience light. 

 

Then of course we have all the grey areas, with people being able to see under specfic condition (demi) or only being partially blind (grey) or just having a really bad eyesight (greyish too and low libido, I guess)

 

You think spiritual (or romantic, which is the more political accurate word) attraction as something that can be equated to physical attraction but it is not (as the existance of aro people proves), it is a different form for attraction all together. It is my perception (though I might be biased) that sexual people have a difficulty sensing the difference, since for them sexual attraction and romantic attraction is intertwined.

 

(pure) Ace people are not just really picky about sex or need and intense spiritual experience to be sexually satisfied, the ability of feeling a sexual attraction (towards other people) is just not there neither physical nor emotional.

 

I can find people attractive romantically, but I cannot find them attractive sexually. The ability to feel sexual attraction towards other people is not there.

 

Demi can find people attractive sexually, but they need the right conditions.

 

Grey ace is where all the confusing mess which is neither fully on thing nor another is and there is no catch all description for them.    

 

(Oh and I hope I doesn't come off as rude. It is just rare to have an opportunity to discuss these things).

 

I mean your saying you have basically never experienced any sexual desire like ever under any circumstances, so I'm inclined to quest just how you would conclude you could find someone "sexually attractive" at all under any circumstances. 

 

I'd still just guess that you have pretty much always been in the off position due to never really finding the extreme emotional connection experience possible.

[esper]

It is difficult to word and why some Ace have the inverted realisation (that the majority is sexual). I found out because I am romantically attracted to people and know that the sexual attraction just never comes and that it had never come for anything, but it has never been there.

 

 

 Deep down people know what they like and how they like it. They might not always have the words for it, or be willing to accept it, or be aware of it, but they know. because they live in their body and their mind.

[ArmOfJustice]

I'm still not understanding in any way why Merrill isn't considered demisexual. Gaider's WoG did not address the ways in which she forms sexual attraction so I don't see why she doesn't count. His 'just bisexual' quote was in reference to her being playersexual and, thus, could potentially be different sexualities in different playthroughs. He was clarifying that her sexuality doesn't change and is 'just bisexual' in all playthroughs. He wasn't talking about her placement on a romantic spectrum. There's nothing in or out of game in the lore to refute or support Merrill being demisexual. I think it's fair to interpret it as her being demibisexual.

I still dont understand why people here behave like Merill is clearly demisexual, when there are also signs against it. It's like you all want it so much that you ignore all contrary arguments. (I know I quote you, but I am not meaning you alone.)

 

I mean it gets a bit ridiculous at times. Some people remind everybody that Merill finds the Qunari "easy on the eyes" and those who want her to be demisexual argue that she of course can only mean it in an aesthetic way. A race of shirtless bodybuilders. Come on! 

 

So you can interpret her as demi, but you also have to accept that interpreting her as bi is not only okay but also has some support in the game. 

 

I'm all for a future demisexual and for that reason I would advocate to stop talking about Merill and concentrate on discussing that.

[Abelas Forever!]

I think you are right, it is fair to interpret her as demisexual.

 

However it is also just as fair to interpret her as being  a very shy bisexual.

 

As I said above, the way she is written could go either way, we have no way of knowing.   Without reading her thoughts all we have to go on is her behaviour, which could be interpreted in many different ways.  The fact that her behaviour would be interpreted in different ways is, in my opinion,  what makes writing such a character next to impossible. 

 

After all, most would consider Merril shy, not demisexual.  This would go for all other demisexual characters was well, that their actions would not be interpreted as them being demisexual, it would be interpreted as being something different, despite the writer's intentions.

I agree that writing demisexual character in a way that people will know that this character is demisexual is almost impossible unless the character will say that she/he is demisexual. I can think of only one way how it's possible to create demisexual character so that people know that this character is demisexual and the way is that writers of course write the character to be demisexual and then when the characters are announced they say that this character is demisexual. If they don't say that a character is a demisexual then I don't know how it's possible to know that the character is a demisexual because it's possible to interpret the actions of that particular character in many different ways like you said.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I agree that writing demisexual character in a way that people will know that this character is demisexual is almost impossible unless the character will say that she/he is demisexual. I can think of only one way how it's possible to create demisexual character so that people know that this character is demisexual and the way is that writers of course write the character to be demisexual and then when the characters are announced they say that this character is demisexual. If they don't say that a character is a demisexual then I don't know how it's possible to know that the character is a demisexual because it's possible to interpret the actions of that particular character in many different ways like you said.

Yeah, it depends on the game. 

 

For Mass Effect, that takes place in our future so the person can just flat out say they are it. 

For Dragon Age, they'll have to give the confirmation in a meta way like they did with The Iron Bull being pansexual. 

For the new IP, depends if the sexual terminology we have will exist there as well. If it does, then it would be like Mass Effect. If not, it will be like Dragon Age.