1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

I'm not ignoring you, it's just you have not talked about demisexual characters in here for pages, and your last few comments have been essentially anti-Bioware rants. 

 

You said earlier you would make a thread to discuss the things you've been discussing recently. I humbly request that you do so. That way you can explain more clearly what you wish to discuss while this thread isn't off-topic. Or just take it to PMs. 

 

Not really, I said ME has some good examples and actually highlighted several examples from BG as well. Also it is the larger issue in some ways. I will leave though because you obviously aren't reading anything I'm writing anyway at this point. If anyone else responds I'll just take it somewhere else.

 

Edit: That also means not necessarily defending the topic against people who want to table your idea and so on... so... good luck I suppose.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone have any ideas for a backstory they would like a demisexual follower and/or LI to have?

This is for any Bioware game by the way, not just Dragon Age. 

[bondari reloads.]

It's usually the other way round, but I'd welcome a PC whose role dictates hat he or she takes an interest in another NPC for story reasons (e.g. Geralt and Ciri) and learn more about them. They'd have to meet fairly early so as to avoid rushing to the conclusion right away. I can't see them being a bard, but the rest would really depend on the motivations of said character and why they should care, and for what. It would nice if the PC could mistake the NPC's handling of their relationship for playing coy before learning more about them.
This is why I thought the Krem convos were well executed - you could be ignorant, Krem would offer a new perspective and you would move on. That's character development right there.

[Wyvernet]

For a demisexual love interest, would you like to have the characters fall in love through the events of the game or would you prefer them to know your character already beforehand?

[Saphiron123]

They're not going to add a sexuality to the game that was invented on tumblr and isn't even acknowledged widely... you might as well ask them to include a character who is one of those deerkin people who want us to believe they identify with being a deer as a gender.

[Grieving Natashina]

It's considered as a part of asexuality, to be honest.  The current lead writer, Patrick Weekes, has already expressed interest in writing such a romance.  The devs have been tweeted this thread and have been reading it over.  Why won't others stop worrying about one LI possibly being demisexual?  

 

You know, there is still going to be two bisexual love interests.  So, why not make one of them into someone that has very very little to no sex drive until they actually love the LI?  Instead of sex as a possibility before the romance is locked in (like most of the LIs in the DA series,) it can only be available after.  Throw in a second option to cuddle instead of sex for those that would prefer that and I don't see the issue.  

 

By the way, is it considered a legitimate form of sexual identity outside of tumblr.  Like the fact that GLAAD, one of the most respected LGBT+ organizations in the world recognizes it as a type of asexuality:

 

http://demisexuality...-demisexuality/

http://www.asexualit...-demisexuality/

http://www.glaad.org...-awareness-week

 

 

Here's an article discussing asexuality, also mentioning demisexuality from almost two years ago:

http://www.huffingto..._n_3362206.html

 

For kicks, here's the psychological report that was the source of that article, and also directly mentions demisexuality:

http://markcarrigan....uality-studies/

 

It's amazing what you can discover by research.  

 

Besides, demisexuality wouldn't be mentioned by name in the game.  Just like no one calls themselves bisexual, gay or lesbian.  This is a character concept for a type of romance, and to me, no different than making a dwarf LI, or having a female LI non-Chantry.  It's not harming anyone, and I've always supported this idea.

 

Why are people so opposed to the very idea of the writers trying out something that most others might not understand?  No one is taking anything away from anyone here.    

[Grieving Natashina]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to answer this.

 

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone have any ideas for a backstory they would like a demisexual follower and/or LI to have?

This is for any Bioware game by the way, not just Dragon Age. 

 

 

One idea I had for DA was someone that was promised to the Chantry at a young age.  She was there from early childhood (say, about 5 years old) and was groomed to take formal vows, until her mage powers showed at about the age of 13.  Now, while she is a mage and older now, she is as devout as ever.  Her time is spent in devotion to the Maker, learning the Chant, and learning the precise control she would need to maintaining her powers as a mage.  While she's capable of romantic love, she has never experienced it for herself.  Where others talk about nudity and attraction, she sees a beautiful form, but never quite understanding what sexual attraction is.  She's focused on teaching and training others and is, for now, largely distanced from the realms of sex, love and romance.  

 

It would take a special love, a special person, to get her to break her vows that she made in her heart.  Rather than just showering her with compliments, instead the flirt options are about teaching each other.  Instead of a first kiss, a first hug to start with.  This was a character that didn't find such affection unwelcome, but would be unused it to at first.  I could see her being a bit nervous, and uncertain, then just easing into the hug.  That's as far as I've gotten.

 

I don't know if it's that good or not, but that was my idea.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's usually the other way round, but I'd welcome a PC whose role dictates hat he or she takes an interest in another NPC for story reasons (e.g. Geralt and Ciri) and learn more about them. They'd have to meet fairly early so as to avoid rushing to the conclusion right away. I can't see them being a bard, but the rest would really depend on the motivations of said character and why they should care, and for what. It would nice if the PC could mistake the NPC's handling of their relationship for playing coy before learning more about them.
This is why I thought the Krem convos were well executed - you could be ignorant, Krem would offer a new perspective and you would move on. That's character development right there.

Yeah, it would be better if they were around from the beginning of the game as one of the first companions or followers. That way they know each other longer so the bond formation would feel more natural than if recruited later and suddenly they have feelings. It could work that way, but it'd be easier to have it be more gradual I think. 

That could be interesting. Have the protagonist possibly see it as just a preference but then can learn it isn't. Shows the difference without being too preachy about it.  

 

For a demisexual love interest, would you like to have the characters fall in love through the events of the game or would you prefer them to know your character already beforehand?

I would be fine with either, but I can see the points that some people brought up about how some don't like predetermined friendships. 

 

One idea I had for DA was someone that was promised to the Chantry at a young age.  She was there from early childhood (say, about 5 years old) and was groomed to take formal vows, until her mage powers showed at about the age of 13.  Now, while she is a mage and older now, she is as devout as ever.  Her time is spent in devotion to the Maker, learning the Chant, and learning the precise control she would need to maintaining her powers as a mage.  While she's capable of romantic love, she has never experienced it for herself.  Where others talk about nudity and attraction, she sees a beautiful form, but never quite understanding what sexual attraction is.  She's focused on teaching and training others and is, for now, largely distanced from the realms of sex, love and romance.  

 

It would take a special love, a special person, to get her to break her vows that she made in her heart.  Rather than just showering her with compliments, instead the flirt options are about teaching each other.  Instead of a first kiss, a first hug to start with.  This was a character that didn't find such affection unwelcome, but would be unused it to at first.  I could see her being a bit nervous, and uncertain, then just easing into the hug.  That's as far as I've gotten.

 

I don't know if it's that good or not, but that was my idea.

That's a very interesting idea. I like it.

[Pasquale1234]

@Kefka:

A wise old owl lived in an oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard.
Why can't we all be like that wise old bird?

 

It would take a special love, a special person, to get her to break her vows that she made in her heart.  Rather than just showering her with compliments, instead the flirt options are about teaching each other.  Instead of a first kiss, a first hug to start with.  This was a character that didn't find such affection unwelcome, but would be unused it to at first.  I could see her being a bit nervous, and uncertain, then just easing into the hug.  That's as far as I've gotten.
 
I don't know if it's that good or not, but that was my idea.

My concern with such a character is the implication that she chose celibacy for religious reasons, which could easily overshadow the underlying demisexuality. A lot of people might choose celibacy for various reasons, but it doesn't mean they are anything other than sexual. Also, it sort of comes across as the "good girl" virgin trope.

A few ideas that might help clarify that a character is demisexual (without using the term):
-- The character does not react to sex jokes, flirts, etc. No expressions of disgust, just indifference.
-- The character has a romantic past - and is widowed or separated. It would provide a platform for the character to discuss the nature of the relationship and what it took to get her invested.
-- I think the character should be an LI, as it would make it much easier to explore her sexuality.
-- The character should clearly express emotional intimacy prior to any sexual attraction.

Certainly not easy to write, but do-able.

[SofaJockey]

If BioWare wish to do this, that would be fine.

All I would ask is that they do it authentically.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So I had a crazy idea about a possible character that this could work for and thought I should at least write it down before I forgot. 

 

I was trying to think of a way Bioware could easily express the character as not simply inexperienced or naive in sexual matters but instead could illustrate demisexuality. And what better way than a DDD, or Demisexual Desire Demon. When asked about such matters, the desire demon could easily say something along the lines of "I am familiar with mortals desiring such things, yet I have never felt such desires myself." Since we know Fade entities have wishes, like the one desire demon who wanted a family, this would show that while the desire demon is well aware of sexuality and sexual attraction, they do not experience it themselves and are indifferent to things like looks, sex discussions, flirts, etc. Then if one pursues a romance, it starts with you and them forming an emotional bond first and at one point it can have them say something like when they are with you they understand what mortals feel. That gets rid of the biggest issue Bioware would have with this in Dragon Age: the inability to discuss sexuality. Since we are going north and most likely that meaning Tevinter, demons have been noted as being around since some magisters would bind them so it wouldn't draw quite as much attention. Or they could simply be like Cole and look fully mortal when in public. So lore-wise it could work. 

[Saphiron123]

It's considered as a part of asexuality, to be honest.  The current lead writer, Patrick Weekes, has already expressed interest in writing such a romance.  The devs have been tweeted this thread and have been reading it over.  Why won't others stop worrying about one LI possibly being demisexual?  

 

You know, there is still going to be two bisexual love interests.  So, why not make one of them into someone that has very very little to no sex drive until they actually love the LI?  Instead of sex as a possibility before the romance is locked in (like most of the LIs in the DA series,) it can only be available after.  Throw in a second option to cuddle instead of sex for those that would prefer that and I don't see the issue.  

 

By the way, is it considered a legitimate form of sexual identity outside of tumblr.  Like the fact that GLAAD, one of the most respected LGBT+ organizations in the world recognizes it as a type of asexuality:

 

http://demisexuality...-demisexuality/

http://www.asexualit...-demisexuality/

http://www.glaad.org...-awareness-week

 

 

Here's an article discussing asexuality, also mentioning demisexuality from almost two years ago:

http://www.huffingto..._n_3362206.html

 

For kicks, here's the psychological report that was the source of that article, and also directly mentions demisexuality:

http://markcarrigan....uality-studies/

 

It's amazing what you can discover by research.  

 

Besides, demisexuality wouldn't be mentioned by name in the game.  Just like no one calls themselves bisexual, gay or lesbian.  This is a character concept for a type of romance, and to me, no different than making a dwarf LI, or having a female LI non-Chantry.  It's not harming anyone, and I've always supported this idea.

 

Why are people so opposed to the very idea of the writers trying out something that most others might not understand?  No one is taking anything away from anyone here.    

I wish Weekes would focus dragon age back on complex side quests with multiple parts and full voice acting and a great main quest instead of more of this LI stuff. It's a nice addition but it can't be the central concept of the game.
 

 

Though I do appreciate the paradox of a desire demon who superficially has no desire... I don't think demon romance is gonna be on the table any time soon...

(or on the bed, in the bathroom, etc.)

I'm okay with that as long as he has some juicy things that I might consider taking for more then 1/10th of a second. Seriously, Ishmael is the worst desire demon ever... with no good options i elected to fight him in the hopes of a seeing a badass new male desire demon design. Recycled rift demons forms instead.

I felt literal disappointment.

 
 

[AresKeith]

I wish Weekes would focus dragon age back on complex side quests with multiple parts and full voice acting and a great main quest instead of more of this LI stuff. It's a nice addition but it can't be the central concept of the game.

 

 

Implying they are mutually exclusive 

[KaiserShep]

I wish Weekes would focus dragon age back on complex side quests with multiple parts and full voice acting and a great main quest instead of more of this LI stuff. It's a nice addition but it can't be the central concept of the game.

 

Don't confuse the fandom's endless discussion on the subject to the reality of it. It's hardly central to the game's story.

[Lady Artifice]

Don't confuse the fandom's endless discussion on the subject to the reality of it. It's hardly central to the game's story.

 

Exactly. Even for those of us who love the romance content, many of us are capable of paying attention to other parts of the story as well, and our level of interest in it is not a reflection of how much of it actually makes up the game.

 

People are always free to ignore it and still play through a complete story.

[KaiserShep]

I'm just posting to people who have asked me questions are otherwise responded with interest (and they aren't off topic by the way)

 

I'm merely counting down the moments to the point where people ignore me for all the wrong reasons as they have pretty much my entire life which I believe we're down to about maybe only 1 or 2 people left now, so it shouldn't be much longer.

 

Obviously you hit that point a bit ago, as well as Artifice, Puddi, Malthier, and liam, but Bondari was still talking and that was actually an extremely important and valuable for myself, forgive me learning more about myself and having positive experiences though, like I said, it won't be much longer though if you'll indulge me that long.

 

For what it's worth that was a lot more than I ever expected, at least I had a few conversations in whole life where people showed even the slightest interest in things I have to say (even though it was pretty much for negative reasons, it's better than nothing)

 

Counting down? That's an ignorin'.

 

[berelinde]

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone have any ideas for a backstory they would like a demisexual follower and/or LI to have?

This is for any Bioware game by the way, not just Dragon Age. 

If I were to design a demisexual LI, they would be fairly ordinary at first blush. No mystic prophecies, no fate of the universe written all over them. They would be regular characters, developed as much as any regular characters in the franchise. Most of all, the LI would *not* be monstrous or be undesirable. Love crosses boundaries, yes, and it's important to feel empathy for the undesirable, but to me, the take-away message with demisexuality is not that the character is not able to love or is not too gross to love by conventional/physical means, but that the protagonist enters the relationship on an intellectual/emotional level first.

[bondari reloads.]

The irony of a demisexual desire demon would be exactly what I'd be aiming for, but it wouldn't agree with the lore (corrupted spirits embodying the essence of a sentiment and all that) at all imo. In order to make the character work there would have to be a spouse or something to confront them about their unwillingness to consummate the marriage, with the PC witnessing the exchange. A little bit like a Dorian who didn't run.

[SofaJockey]

I wish Weekes would focus dragon age back on complex side quests with multiple parts and full voice acting and a great main quest instead of more of this LI stuff. It's a nice addition but it can't be the central concept of the game.

 

BioWare have never made love interests central, they have stated this repeatedly.

Most of the game is combat.

[Toasted Llama]

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone have any ideas for a backstory they would like a demisexual follower and/or LI to have?

This is for any Bioware game by the way, not just Dragon Age. 

Here's an idea (it's tough to do with multiple race options though):

Say you have a potential LI,who I'm going to call... Annie for now, who is a childhood friend with the protagonist (you, duh!) and you play (short) sequences of this childhood, as flashbacks or as the origin story for your character, partially to bond with Annie.

 

By your interactions with her you even get to decide what the type of bond with Annie was; a friendly or an unfriendly bond. Depending on what type of bond you have with her her during childhood and beyond, she may or may not be interested in a romance (will explain how this works later).

During the main events of the game, you can flirt/inniate the romance with her, she'll get slightly confused and/or uncomfortable (and I don't mean as in "ew, sex! ew!" but as in; woah wait, you're interested me like that?) and then she'll request to have some time think about it. In the mean time, you've gotta move on with the main events and keep boosting the approval/stay friends with her.

Then eventually Annie will come to you and talk. Depending on your interactions with her previously, there's 2 things that can happen: a.) if you were friendly with her: she'll admit she loves/appreciates you more than just friends or b.) if you weren't friendly with her; she has no interest in you. And then if you were friendly with her, the romance initiates and you go off to do tooth-achingly sweet stuff together full of cuddles. (cuddling is allowed, right?)

I also thought of having her personal quest decide when you'll be able to romance her if you are friendly with her.

Maybe you can ask her to join you in your bed/tent whatever and she'll politely decline the offer? But still vouch for her romantic interest in you.

And then maybe at the end of the game before the credits the emotional bond between you and Annie is strong enough for Annie to develop sexual attraction as well and surprises the protagonist in bed? Or maybe just not at all. Maybe only if you asked her to join her in your bed/tent.

I think this would work best if the main events take place over several years.

And yes, maybe is my favourite word. Maybe.

Feel free to throw your criticism at my idea.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Here's an idea (it's tough to do with multiple race options though):

Say you have a potential LI,who I'm going to call... Annie for now, who is a childhood friend with the protagonist (you, duh!) and you play (short) sequences of this childhood, as flashbacks or as the origin story for your character, partially to bond with Annie.

 

By your interactions with her you even get to decide what the type of bond with Annie was; a friendly or an unfriendly bond. Depending on what type of bond you have with her her during childhood and beyond, she may or may not be interested in a romance (will explain how this works later).

During the main events of the game, you can flirt/inniate the romance with her, she'll get slightly confused and/or uncomfortable (and I don't mean as in "ew, sex! ew!" but as in; woah wait, you're interested me like that?) and then she'll request to have some time think about it. In the mean time, you've gotta move on with the main events and keep boosting the approval/stay friends with her.

Then eventually Annie will come to you and talk. Depending on your interactions with her previously, there's 2 things that can happen: a.) if you were friendly with her: she'll admit she loves/appreciates you more than just friends or b.) if you weren't friendly with her; she has no interest in you. And then if you were friendly with her, the romance initiates and you go off to do tooth-achingly sweet stuff together full of cuddles. (cuddling is allowed, right?)

I also thought of having her personal quest decide when you'll be able to romance her if you are friendly with her.

Maybe you can ask her to join you in your bed/tent whatever and she'll politely decline the offer? But still vouch for her romantic interest in you.

And then maybe at the end of the game before the credits the emotional bond between you and Annie is strong enough for Annie to develop sexual attraction as well and surprises the protagonist in bed? Or maybe just not at all. Maybe only if you asked her to join her in your bed/tent.

I think this would work best if the main events take place over several years.

And yes, maybe is my favourite word. Maybe.

Feel free to throw your criticism at my idea.

That could work very well. I agree that a game that expands over a few years would work better than one that doesn't. I could work with a game that takes place over a few months but it would be easier if it took place over years. 

 

As for the multiple race thing, if we go to Tevinter it can be really easy: regardless of race, you were born a slave. You and Annie spent your childhoods serving the same magister. That also explains that regardless of you and her opinions of each other, you two are stuck together since you both get roped into the same situation that starts the plot. 

[Toasted Llama]

That could work very well. I agree that a game that expands over a few years would work better than one that doesn't. I could work with a game that takes place over a few months but it would be easier if it took place over years. 

 

As for the multiple race thing, if we go to Tevinter it can be really easy: regardless of race, you were born a slave. You and Annie spent your childhoods serving the same magister. That also explains that regardless of you and her opinions of each other, you two are stuck together since you both get roped into the same situation that starts the plot. 

Ooh the slave thing is clever!

[Saphiron123]

BioWare have never made love interests central, they have stated this repeatedly.

Most of the game is combat.

Most of the game should be story, especially because they dumbed the combat down to the point it's not interesting anymore.

[Saphiron123]

So basically you want a companion with a really low sex drive... that is what we're saying here, right? Just no physical attraction to others.

Doesn't need a label, it's just a really low sex drive.