1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Toasted Llama]

I kind of appreciate the idea here but again as I said to Puncher I've never really had any deep philosophical issues with myself, I've pretty much always known exactly what I am.

 

It's more I keep seeing this notion pop up and that people suggest or hint at that being chaste or whatever is actually some kind of weakness or something, which is simply false.

 

I suspect that's largely because those who have frequently embodied that persona (i.e. in Hollywood Movies) etc might come off that way

 

I'm not even sure demisexual would be the right term for me anyway, at any rate.

 

In many ways this just kind of fuels the point Hanako was maying, he nor I want to see this like "virgin girl" trope thing, or someone that's confused about sex.

 

For example the character in 50 Shades (maybe a bad example) was a virgin and was waiting for the right guy, etc, etc, and she also let him beat her and decide most things for her, etc, etc.

 

A demisexual character (I would hope) wouldn't be such a push over.

The fact that you don't have any deep philosophical issues with yourself seems to correlate with the fact that you aren't even sure if demisexual is the right term for you. There's probably no "desire" to put a label on yourself, so why would/should you? Labels aren't necessary, but it helps people put their minds at ease.

That said my comment was more directed in general, not at you personally.

[Seraphim24]

Great. So you can understand how people would be contemptuous of these sorts of terms, feeling their only purpose is to draw undeserved attention to what we can agree is a non issue?

 

Is this really drawing undeserved attention though? We are on a sub-forum of a sub-forum for a Canadian video game company that for whatever reason likes to talk about sex.

 

No one here is pushing for "financial restitution, or passing laws" or any of the things you mentioned.

[Seraphim24]

The fact that you don't have any deep philosophical issues with yourself seems to correlate with the fact that you aren't even sure if demisexual is the right term for you. There's probably no "desire" to put a label on yourself, so why would/should you? Labels aren't necessary, but it helps people put their minds at ease.

That said my comment was more directed in general, not at you personally.

 

I just took issue with the "mind at ease" comment, implying these people were fragile misdirected spirits. There is really nothing fragile about demisexuality, it's overwhelming intense and single minded in focus, among other things, in many respects.

 

My guess is more frequently the issue for people is simply a lack of understanding or a point of relation to the rest of the world, not so much one of fragility.

 

I'd rather see them empowered and not satisfied with being given a little wing in the Social Justice Base Camp, quite frankly these are pretty valuable people.

[Br3admax]

A bunch of other people on the internet claiming to be like you builds a community in the same way a bunch of people going to a concert, a restaurant, or a movie theater builds community. Not at all. 

 

Calm down? Please refrain from making assumptions about my state of mind when all you have is toneless text.
The origins of demisexuality are irrelevant. People have started to adopt the term to better describe cases where they are stuck between sexual and asexual. I believe gray-asexual has been the term before demisexual was adopted. This is one of the many ways how definitions and words come to existance. More and more people are identifying as demisexual, so a request to have representation in a game is very valid and reasonable when you keep in mind that Bioware is a company that cares about making their romances for everyone.

Please do not tell me what I need or need not care about. If there's anything I currently don't care about, it's your opinion on what WoG should or should not impact or influence.

 

Calm down is an extremely common internet phrase. So common that I feel you only responded with so much anger, which you're clearly oozing at this point, only to feel some sense of selfrightouneous to add legitmacy to your claim. Saying, "More and more people feel as special as me, and that makes it legitimate," would make everything from headmates, to being a toaster legitimate. But, as it doesn't, BioWare really doesn't need to do anything regardless of how widespread this movement is, especially when it's incredibly marginal. And if the origins of demisexuality go back 11 years, I'll go out on a limb and say it's completely made up and irrelevant to the products being produced to make money, as this is a business, not your soapbox. And since your "demixexuality"-ness won't get in the way of you romancing anyone not demisexual, I don't see the point to what you're trying to argue besides, "I'm special, and this romance isn't special to me unless it's just as special as I am." That being said, feel free to ask for this, and I never suggested you shouldn't. I said I disagree. 

 

As to the last bit, God, you sound mad. Saying please really doesn't change that. 

[Seraphim24]

A bunch of other people on the internet claiming to be like you builds a community in the same way a bunch of people going to a concert, a restaurant, or a movie theater builds community. Not at all. 

 

 

Calm down is an extremely common internet phrase. So common that I feel you only responded with so much anger, which you're clearly oozing at this point, only to feel some sense of selfrightouneous to add legitmacy to your claim. Saying, "More and more people feel as special as me, and that makes it legitimate," would make everything from headmates, to being a toaster legitimate. But, as it doesn't, BioWare really doesn't need to do anything regardless of how widespread this movement is, especially when it's incredibly marginal. And if the origins of demisexuality go back 11 years, I'll go out on a limb and say it's completely made up and irrelevant to the products being produced to make money, as this is a business, not your soapbox. And since your "demixexuality"-ness won't get in the way of you romancing anyone not demisexual, I don't see the point to what you're trying to argue besides, "I'm special, and this romance isn't special to me unless it's just as special as I am."

 

As to the last bit, God, you sound mad. Saying please really doesn't change that. 

 

My only question is then do you feel the same way about all sexualities and representations in Bioware video games? In other words, is this point about it being a soapbox consistently applied to other questions of the same nature?

[KaiserShep]

Calm down is an extremely common internet phrase.

 

I just wanted to note the terrific irony in the phrase. I don't believe that there's ever been a time in all of human history when it's been used that the person it's being told to actually complied XD

[Br3admax]

My only question is then do you feel the same way about all sexualities and representations in Bioware video games? In other words, is this point about it being a soapbox consistently applied to other questions of the same nature?

 

That said I'd agree that "more and more people are doing X" is a pretty absurd reason to justify something, like it's the next coolest thing.

Nah. I'm fine with people asking for homosexual LIs, because they can be represented, and well mind you. When it gets down to, "I need a dev to tell me this person is this," however, I draw the metaphorical line. Merrill was pretty close to this; hell, people thought she was, but as soon as Gaider says, "She's bisexual," they flip their **** as if suddenly she became less of a character, which really goes on to prove the point. 

 

I just wanted to note the terrific irony in the phrase. I don't believe that there's ever been a time in all of human history when it's been used that the person it's being told to actually complied XD

Ha, true. 

[Seraphim24]

Nah. I'm fine with people asking for homosexual LIs, because they can be represented, and well mind you. When it gets down to, "I need a dev to tell me this person is this," however, I draw the metaphorical line. Merrill was pretty close to this, hell people thought she was, but as soon as Gaider says, "She's bisexual," they flip their **** as if suddenly she became less of a character, which really goes on to prove the point. 

 

What makes you think something that looks like "demisexuality" can't be represented?

 

I'm not really sure what your point is to be honest, you are talking about Merrill and this thing with Gaider I don't know what that is or whatever.

 

I guess I'm just not sure what your problem is here, if it's ok for other kinds of sexual desires or experiences to be discussed or included in game discussions or whatever why not this one?

 

Edit: Well no response for now will come back later I suppose potentially.

[berelinde]

A bunch of other people on the internet claiming to be like you builds a community in the same way a bunch of people going to a concert, a restaurant, or a movie theater builds community. Not at all. 

I would dispute that.

 

Last weekend, I attended the arrival of a steam locomotive. There were thousands of people there, and the only thing we had in common was that we like steam engines, but there was a great sense of community, the mutual appreciation of something. People were looking out for each other, bringing water for their neighbors or saving each other spots in line if somebody had to step away for a moment. People talk about the event, yes, but they also talk about other interests. Some of the people there knew each other from other rail events, and I wound up shaking a lot of hands that day.

 

Sure some people are going to go to an event, stand around and tap their feet until the anticipated event happens and then leave, and they won't feel a sense of community, no. But like the internet, some people reach out more and interact with the people around them, forming friendships and a sense of community.

 

So, if your argument is that a thread about demisexuality is going to be as effective as a public gathering in building a sense of community, I'd expect a favorable outcome.

 

Edit: Please ignore the repetitive wording. I fail at language today, apparently.

Modifié par berelinde, 02 juin 2015 - 09:57 .

[Toasted Llama]

I just took issue with the "mind at ease" comment, implying these people were fragile misdirected spirits. There is really nothing fragile about demisexuality, it's overwhelming intense and single minded in focus, among other things, in many respects.

 

My guess is more frequently the issue for people is simply a lack of understanding or a point of relation to the rest of the world, not so much one of fragility.

 

I'd rather see them empowered and not satisfied with being given a little wing in the Social Justice Base Camp, quite frankly these are pretty valuable people.

I didn't even remotely try to imply with "mind at ease" that demisexual people are fragile or misdirected people. Stop projecting so much negativity or hostility on my words please.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would dispute that.

 

Last weekend, I attended the arrival of a steam locomotive. There were thousands of people there, and the only thing we had in common was that we like steam engines, but there was a great sense of community, the mutual appreciation of something. People were looking out for each other, bringing water for their neighbors or saving each other spots in line if somebody had to step away for a moment. People talk about the event, yes, but they also talk about other interests. Some of the people there knew each other from other rail events, and I wound up shaking a lot of hands that day.

 

Sure some people are going to go to an event, stand around and tap their feet until the anticipated event happens and then leave, and they won't feel a sense of community, no. But like the internet, some people reach out more and interact with the people around them, forming friendships and a sense of community.

 

So, if your argument is that a thread about demisexuality is going to be as effective as a public gathering in building a sense of community, I'd expect a favorable outcome.

 

Edit: Please ignore the repetitive wording. I fail at language today, apparently.

Exactly. Recently, like only a couple decades ago at max, asexuality wasn't seen as an orientation. But with the Internet, word of it being an orientation and not just something wrong with you spread and now there is a big asexual community. 

[Seraphim24]

I didn't even remotely try to imply with "mind at ease" that demisexual people are fragile or misdirected people. Stop projecting so much negativity or hostility on my words please.

 

That's exactly what you implied, heck, anyway I hardly think we need to restart this kind of discussion again with all the deleterious consequences it would have.

 

Anyway it's perhaps another reminder that perhaps I should just start another thread and perhaps create another sexuality, superdemisexuality or something.

 

To the first, that was something that I had (and still do at times) struggles with.  Apparently it's mixed opinion.  Some people do exactly what you mentioned:  demiheterosexual or demihomosexual for example.  Others seem to indicate that it's a separate sexuality that negates other sexualities.  I can't seem to understand consensus on this.  If the former is correct, then certainly Merrill could well be considered demibisexual, given that some people had considered her demisexual until Gaider formally WoG'd that she was bisexual.  Again, people who see it as compatible with other sexualities would view her as demibisexual.  People who see it as incompatable now consider her to be bisexual and not demisexual. 

 

To the second, I think the request is to have it be confirmed in some way.  Given that there are already LI's who could be considered demisexual, it seems like the request is to get it confirmed by devs in some capacity.  Which I can understand to a degree.  It's nice to have a confirmation that a character in a game represents you in some capacity.  The trick is how that would happen with this particular sexuality, which I know has been discussed several times in the thread.

 

For example for this, I personally kind of have an issue with for instance "demibisexual" or something because it seems to imply an attachment to more than one individual. For instance someone who is bisexual eventually settles down with a male or female whichever but is still capable of feeling attraction towards the other gender (and thus, it would seem, at least one other person).

 

That suggests that bisexuality eventually becomes either homosexuality or heterosexuality but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

[Toasted Llama]

It's primarily you were speaking for other people (do you even identify as demisexual?) and since none of those reasons you gave spoke to me at all (and were in fact somewhat contrary) it seemed like a good time to say something.

 

Maybe it wasn't intended as hostile but it's annoying when people put words in your mouth particular if they don't seem accurate.

I was mentioning a reason why people like to use labels, not demisexuality specifically, so I don't even have to identify as a demisexual in the first place. Another thing is that I was mentioning a reason. Not the only reason. Not the official reason. Just a reason. If that's not the reason why you use that label, great, whatever, entirely possible, I never said that was impossible. But there are other people who struggle and can put their minds at ease when they discover and identify as the label, it's even in the op (and quoted another time):

"Many demisexuals grow up feeling different from those around them. Most people have their first instance of sexual attraction in late childhood or their preteen years. From that point on, sex becomes a topic of curiosity and interest for them, and they eventually look forward to pursuing it. For children and teens in school, there is a lot of talk about sex—what it’s like, what it’ll be like, etc. This becomes more prevalent as they approach college and early adulthood.

 

Demisexuals often feel alienated by these conversations because they aren’t interested in sex, they don’t find people attractive, or both. When the conversation turns to hot celebrities, for example, demisexuals may feel confused, and wonder what it is their friends see and feel. They wonder if they will eventually feel it too, and some even end up feeling “broken.” Knowing that there are others like them helps demisexuals feel less alone."
Notice how it talks about how demisexuals could feel different, alienated or even broken. Feeling less alone or knowing there are more people like them out there helps them put their minds at ease. Which is what I said and what I meant.

Acting as if the example I used counts for everyone and nobody can be an exception is all and therefore be putting words in your mouth, is all your own doing, not mine.

(on a side note, you said you weren't even sure if you identified as a demisexual)

 

A bunch of other people on the internet claiming to be like you builds a community in the same way a bunch of people going to a concert, a restaurant, or a movie theater builds community. Not at all. 

 

 

Calm down is an extremely common internet phrase. So common that I feel you only responded with so much anger, which you're clearly oozing at this point, only to feel some sense of selfrightouneous to add legitmacy to your claim. Saying, "More and more people feel as special as me, and that makes it legitimate," would make everything from headmates, to being a toaster legitimate. But, as it doesn't, BioWare really doesn't need to do anything regardless of how widespread this movement is, especially when it's incredibly marginal. And if the origins of demisexuality go back 11 years, I'll go out on a limb and say it's completely made up and irrelevant to the products being produced to make money, as this is a business, not your soapbox. And since your "demixexuality"-ness won't get in the way of you romancing anyone not demisexual, I don't see the point to what you're trying to argue besides, "I'm special, and this romance isn't special to me unless it's just as special as I am." That being said, feel free to ask for this, and I never suggested you shouldn't. I said I disagree. 

 

As to the last bit, God, you sound mad. Saying please really doesn't change that.

And even more baseless assumptions about my state of mind. I'm done here, you remind me far too much of  "lol u mad" trolls.

[Seraphim24]

I was mentioning a reason why people like to use labels, not demisexuality specifically, so I don't even have to identify as a demisexual in the first place. Another thing is that I was mentioning a reason. Not the only reason. Not the official reason. Just a reason. If that's not the reason why you use that label, great, whatever, entirely possible, I never said that was impossible. But there are other people who struggle and can put their minds at ease when they discover and identify as the label, it's even in the op (and quoted another time):

"Many demisexuals grow up feeling different from those around them. Most people have their first instance of sexual attraction in late childhood or their preteen years. From that point on, sex becomes a topic of curiosity and interest for them, and they eventually look forward to pursuing it. For children and teens in school, there is a lot of talk about sex—what it’s like, what it’ll be like, etc. This becomes more prevalent as they approach college and early adulthood.

 

Demisexuals often feel alienated by these conversations because they aren’t interested in sex, they don’t find people attractive, or both. When the conversation turns to hot celebrities, for example, demisexuals may feel confused, and wonder what it is their friends see and feel. They wonder if they will eventually feel it too, and some even end up feeling “broken.” Knowing that there are others like them helps demisexuals feel less alone."
Notice how it talks about how demisexuals could feel different, alienated or even broken. Feeling less alone or knowing there are more people like them out there helps them put their minds at ease. Which is what I said and what I meant.

Acting as if the example I used counts for everyone and nobody can be an exception is all and therefore be putting words in your mouth, is all your own doing, not mine.

(on a side note, you said you weren't even sure if you identified as a demisexual)

 

You are doing the same thing you did earlier which is talking down to this "sexuality" with tons and tons and tons of PR BS for us all to sift through to get to that point.

 

I'm just here to tell you I have no idea what grounds you are using for doing that, but whatever they are it's fallacious.

 

I have no idea why you would try and pull the same thing again.

 

Anyway if Hanako doesn't notice or care fine, but no point in pretending otherwise.

[Toasted Llama]

You are doing the same thing you did earlier which is talking down to this "sexuality" with tons and tons and tons of PR BS for us all to sift through to get to that point.

 

I'm just here to tell you I have no idea what grounds you are using for doing that, but whatever they are it's fallacious.

 

I have no idea why you would try and pull the same thing again.

 

Anyway if Hanako doesn't notice or care fine, but no point in pretending otherwise.

I'm literally quoting the OP and what Hanako quoted earlier. If that's PR BS or fallacious feel free to take it up with Hanako or the OP.

[Seraphim24]

I'm literally quoting the OP and what Hanako quoted earlier. If that's PR BS or fallacious feel free to take it up with Hanako or the OP.

 

No one who is of a lesser sexuality (promiscuous, etc) should speak down to one with a greater one, or do we really need to have this out again?

 

Ok maybe I should explain better, why is it that people who aren't promiscuous or don't have tons of sex are treated as kind of weird or different in most societies? In general, this is considered like a sign of inferiority.. I just don't get it....

[Toasted Llama]

No one who is of a lesser sexuality (promiscuous, etc) should speak for one with a greater one, or do we really need to have this out again?

Please don't be f*cking serious right now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Please stop this, you two.

[Toasted Llama]

Please stop this, you two.

I wouldn't even have begun if I didn't get demonized at every bloody turn. Or told that I'm not allowed to say anything because I'm of a "lesser sexuality" apparently.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I wouldn't even have begun if I didn't get demonized at every bloody turn. Or told that I'm not allowed to say anything because I'm of a "lesser sexuality" apparently.

Just put Kefka on Ignore. 

 

The fact I give a like to your posts should show which of you two is in the right in this discussion. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Kefka, stop now!

 

What you're doing is one of the main things demisexuals get accused of: people who are just s***-shaming while hiding behind an imaginary orientation.

Demisexuality is not that, so stop. You are not helping this thread or topic right now, you are being dentrimental to it. 

[Seraphim24]

Kefka, stop now!

 

What you're doing is one of the main things demisexuals get accused of: people who are just s***-shaming while hiding behind an orientation.

You are not helping this thread or topic right now, you are being dentrimental to it. 

 

I don't care! I DONT! Look, people want to have sex! GOOD FOR THEM. I have plenty of friends that have lots of sex, don't care at all! I like them tons, some of them are really cool people.

 

But the idea that I, who do not like to have lots of sex or partners, would be talked down to by someone who does is what drives me insane. I just can't do that.

 

Ultimately, I'm not going to do anything other than ignore them, for practical purposes, like I ignore many people that I disagree with in the end. What I find frustrating is not how I feel or react to these people, but how they feel and react to me, and quite frankly, I don't know why someone like me who doesn't want to hurt anyone or make anyone feel bad is constantly on the receiving end of so much vitriol who seem to want nothing but that....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't care! I DONT! Look, people want to have sex! GOOD FOR THEM. I have plenty of friends that have lots of sex, don't care at all!

 

But the idea that I, who do not like to have lots of sex or partners, would be talked down by someone who does is what drives me insane.

The only person who is talking down to others is you. 

[Seraphim24]

The only person who is talking down to others is you. 

 

I've just been looking for someone who says things I can understand, when people have their discussions fine, about characters or possibilities, and so on, but I can never, ever concede something like that.

 

In the worst case scenario I'll just go elsewhere so my eyes don't come across it.