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A Request for Demisexuality in Bioware Games


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#1876
In Exile

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Don't be silly. Elven gods make sense within the setting and it makes sense that the hero of this type of story would meet them. They weren't random encounters, were they? I was questioning if a transsexual person fit this setting.

 

We're talking about statistical probability. Out of the hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people living in the DA setting, there are maybe 10-20 that could be "elven gods". The odds of running into one are so astronomically low that it's almost comical to write out the probability. 

 

 

The Arishok saying he lost no Qunari is not really "No True Scotsman." He's using the word Qunari to mean followers of the Qun, not a race. The Tal-Vashoth have left the Qun and therefore are not Qunari.

 

I don't believe that you can so fundamentally misunderstanding logic. He's not saying the Tal-Vasoth are not qunari. He's saying they were never Qunari. That's literally the No True Scotsman fallacy. 



#1877
Saphiron123

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I should make a thread requesting transracialism in bioware games. Rachel Dolezal should be a good example.

I swear, if a character comes along and says "I'm human but I identify as an elf" I'm turning it off forever.



#1878
Saphiron123

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We're talking about statistical probability. Out of the hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people living in the DA setting, there are maybe 10-20 that could be "elven gods". The odds of running into one are so astronomically low that it's almost comical to write out the probability. 

 

 
 

 

I don't believe that you can so fundamentally misunderstanding logic. He's not saying the Tal-Vasoth are not qunari. He's saying they were never Qunari. That's literally the No True Scotsman fallacy. 

Still with the anti-scottish terminology. Just because a british guy said it first doesn't make it cool.



#1879
In Exile

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I swear, if a character comes along and says "I'm human but I identify as an elf" I'm turning it off forever.

 

DA2 beat you too it, as the link I provide above shows you. 

 

Still with the anti-scottish terminology. Just because a british guy said it first doesn't make it cool.

 

Would you prefer "No True Qunari"? It's still the same thing. 


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#1880
Natashina

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I think the expression is older than that.  IIRC, "No True Roman" was used back in the Roman Empire.



#1881
Shechinah

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It is also the term used by TvTropes and Wikipedia amongst many others because it seems to be the most common example used of a informal fallacy. It has nothing to do with "anti-scottish terminology", it is like a nickname being derived from one example while the actual name is something else but using the nickname and the example it is derived makes it easier to grasp and remember as well as explain and understand.  

 

In my country, "Freud's egg" is a nickname derived from placing the Id, Ego and Superego into different sections of an egg-shaped form. This is how most psychology students are introduced to this topic and how most learn to grasp it because it is more approachable. A different example of sectioning the pscyhe tripartite would be the glacier looking model. There is two different examples but the one from which the nickname that I am most familiar are derived from is "Freud's egg", not "Freud's glacier" hence why I would refer to it as the latter, not the former. 

 

TL:DR"When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule" - An informal fallacy otherwise known as the "No True Scotsman", not to be confused with "True Scotsman" the term used in Scotland for a man wearing a kilt without undergarments.         



#1882
Abelas Forever!

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I think the words of Arishok could be interpreted that the Qun didn't lose anything because those who abandoned them were weak so when the weak left the Qun then it became stronger. That's why I think it's not no true Scotsman fallacy.



#1883
In Exile

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I think the words of Arishok could be interpreted that the Qun didn't lose anything because those who abandoned them were weak so when the weak left the Qun then it became stronger. That's why I think it's not no true Scotsman fallacy.

 

But that's not what he's saying. He's saying they're definitionally not Qunari. He then has his rant about weakness, but that's different. 



#1884
TheOgre

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I swear, if a character comes along and says "I'm human but I identify as an elf" I'm turning it off forever.


It can happen.. I mean, Sera happened.

#1885
Abelas Forever!

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But that's not what he's saying. He's saying they're definitionally not Qunari. He then has his rant about weakness, but that's different. 

What I said was my opinion about how Arishok's words could be interpreted and I think that if they are interpreted like I said then it isn't no true Scotsman fallacy. I mean if Arishok doesn't think that the Qun lost qunari when they joined Tal-Vashoth because they were weak then that is in my opinion not  no true Scotsman fallacy.



#1886
GGGenesis

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It can happen.. I mean, Sera happened.

 

She was more like an elf who didn't identify as Dalish or being an 'elf' but a person. I'm (half) Asian, but with Australian nationality. I identify as Australian and feel awkward if people call me Japanese because I've never lived there and know next to nothing about Japan (compared to Australia).



#1887
Gamedam Meister

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I would love if there was a love interest who was demisexual. 


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#1888
Natureguy85

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Wait, are you defending dragon as a gender? It's a work of fiction. It was made up as part of a story...

 

Prove it. No, I was kidding. However, I don't know if you realize just how far your response reaches.It's true and applicable to a lot.

 

I think they were speaking sarcastically, but yes I do agree with you. I'm not trans, but I hate gendered things (like why can't men wear dresses and why can't women fight in the front lines), and this whole 'species dysphoria' I find to be insulting to trans people. I understand trans people because there is a biological and scientific explanation, same goes for sexuality, but species dysphoria doesn't have that.

 

I also cringe when people start inventing all of these new 'sexualities' which really...they're not sexualities. How you court and what fetish you have doesn't define your sexual orientation, who you court does. It really gets annoying when people create their minority identity then trample all over other minorities because 'hey, I'm a special snowflake and need airplay too'. It really trivialises minority groups. It's like when people say "My coffee at Starbucks was cold and it made me depressed." No. No it didn't. It made you upset. If you knew depression you'd know cold coffees are the least of your troubles.

 

Yes, I'm glad my overblown response was understood by someone for what it was.

 

Men shouldn't wear dresses because they are women's clothes. Men and women are different. Not saying one is better, but they are different. As for women fighting on the front lines, it's two reasons. One, men protect women. That's what we do and hopefully that never goes away. Two, on average women are not as capable as men in all the things fighting a war requires. Obviously there are always exceptions. I hope our military holds the line and does cave by lowering standards for special forces.

 

As for those "new sexualities", it's two reasons. One, some people like to be victims. They want to join the ranks of the "oppressed". Two, when you hold up a group and celebrate everything about them, a new batch of special snowflakes will come around wanting their parade too.

 

We're talking about statistical probability. Out of the hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people living in the DA setting, there are maybe 10-20 that could be "elven gods". The odds of running into one are so astronomically low that it's almost comical to write out the probability. 

 

 

I don't believe that you can so fundamentally misunderstanding logic. He's not saying the Tal-Vasoth are not qunari. He's saying they were never Qunari. That's literally the No True Scotsman fallacy. 

 

Again, these aren't chance encounters are they? It makes sense that such beings would be around important or extraordinary events. Also, these:

 

http://tvtropes.org/...rativeCausality

 

Specifically: Another way to look at it is that amazing things don't happen to the main characters because they're the main characters — rather, they're the main characters because amazing things happen to them. If they weren't remarkable people with remarkable feats and tales to their name, there wouldn't be a story about them and you wouldn't be hearing it in the first place.

 

http://tvtropes.org/...hropicPrinciple

 

 

As to the Qunari, what the Arishok says makes perfect sense because he believes that everyone is a certain thing and can not be otherwise. He isn't just trying to detach himself from an undesirable group; this is in keeping with his core philosophy.



#1889
Hanako Ikezawa

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Can we get back on topic please? 


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#1890
Lanavis

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If bioware includes demisexuals, then I want some sapiosexuals who only experience sexual attraction towards very smart people. Hell, throw in some vegetariansexuals as well who only experience sexual attraction to vegetarians.


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#1891
XMissWooX

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If bioware includes demisexuals, then I want some sapiosexuals who only experience sexual attraction towards very smart people...

You jest, but I believe there were a number of people who were really drawn towards Mordin in Mass Effect due to his intellect.
Personally, I think a super-Intelligent LI would be pretty cool. I guess Solas sort of counts, though he wasn't much like Mordin.

#1892
9TailsFox

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You jest, but I believe there were a number of people who were really drawn towards Mordin in Mass Effect due to his intellect.
Personally, I think a super-Intelligent LI would be pretty cool. I guess Solas sort of counts, though he wasn't much like Mordin.

Solas have god complex  :lol: He thinks he smart, and he is, he not stupid. But some people lift him like he smartest person in Thedas. And he isn't not even close he is old and know elvish stuff and that's it. He is arrogant and thinks he always right. He just human elf.


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#1893
Vanth

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I think there is another distinction that is relevant in the context of this discussion. I would not describe myself as asexual or demisexual because I can and do feel sexual attraction to people I don't know. By that I mean I can look at them naked and feel aroused. But, that certain doesn't mean that I am willing (or even able) to have a sexual relationship with someone I don't know. So in some sense I am functionally demisexual and a part of me just goes "ugh" when an npc in a game comes on to me. 

 

In other words, just because you can feel aroused by someone doesn't mean you are actually attracted to them and would ever want to have a relationship with them. 



#1894
Hanako Ikezawa

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You jest, but I believe there were a number of people who were really drawn towards Mordin in Mass Effect due to his intellect.
Personally, I think a super-Intelligent LI would be pretty cool. I guess Solas sort of counts, though he wasn't much like Mordin.

We've had a few super intelligent LIs. They are just super-intelligent in different areas. 



#1895
Natureguy85

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I think there is another distinction that is relevant in the context of this discussion. I would not describe myself as asexual or demisexual because I can and do feel sexual attraction to people I don't know. By that I mean I can look at them naked and feel aroused. But, that certain doesn't mean that I am willing (or even able) to have a sexual relationship with someone I don't know. So in some sense I am functionally demisexual and a part of me just goes "ugh" when an npc in a game comes on to me. 

 

In other words, just because you can feel aroused by someone doesn't mean you are actually attracted to them and would ever want to have a relationship with them. 

 

That's pretty normal. I believe the criteria for demisexual is that they not even feel that sexual arousal. As far as going "ugh", that just means you aren't pixel-sexual.



#1896
Hanako Ikezawa

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That's pretty normal. I believe the criteria for demisexual is that they not even feel that sexual arousal. As far as going "ugh", that just means you aren't pixel-sexual.

Yes. Demisexuals can find people asthetically pleasing, but are not sexually attracted to them.


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#1897
Gamedam Meister

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Yes. Demisexuals can find people asthetically pleasing, but are not sexually attracted to them.

Sort of like how there are heterosexual males who can find other males aesthetically pleasing but aren't sexually attracted to them for example.


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#1898
Hanako Ikezawa

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Sort of like how there are heterosexual males who can find other males aesthetically pleasing but aren't sexually attracted to them for example.

Exactly. 



#1899
daveliam

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Hanako, I'm glad that you found Curie in FO4.  I just saw that you had asked about companion romances which might be interpreted as demisexual.  And, unsurprisingly, those in the KISA thread all had Danse on the brain.  But, to me, Curie is the one I immediately thought of for you.  Now, granted, she's

Spoiler
, but she has the exact type of reactions that you tend to go for in LI's.  She's the Merrill or Josephine type of FO4.


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#1900
Hanako Ikezawa

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Hanako, I'm glad that you found Curie in FO4.  I just saw that you had asked about companion romances which might be interpreted as demisexual.  And, unsurprisingly, those in the KISA thread all had Danse on the brain.  But, to me, Curie is the one I immediately thought of for you.  Now, granted, she's

Spoiler
, but she has the exact type of reactions that you tend to go for in LI's.  She's the Merrill or Josephine type of FO4.

I figured he would be the most common answer, like how if I asked for Mass Effect I would expect Kaidan to be the most common answer on there. That said, Danse is the second closest so it was a good recommendation. I look forward to meeting them in the game once I get it. 

 

But yeah, after looking into it, Curie fits surprisingly well as a demisexual. She has no interest and even an aversion to sexual things with the exception of the Sole Survivor, and even then only once they develop a deep bond. She doesn't understand and gets uncomfortable with flirting and innuendos. And it's not like she just hasn't experienced it yet, since she has studied it and witnessed it a lot. 

This video in particular is what made me realize the similarities as more than just vagueness leading to seeing what one wants to see:


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