1942 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I also think Curie is just a character you'd love in general, Hanako. I only just met her yesterday, and I was completely enamoured of what an absolute sweetheart she is. A lot of it is in the details, too. She's darling to talk to, but if you look around to see some of the things she does outside of conversation, like some of things she's clearly already done in the place you find her, are sentimental and fastidious in a way that just sums up her character marvelously well.

 

Come to think of it, I believe writing "establishing character moments" for your companions are one of Bethesda weakest points, but I like what they did with Curie.

Yeah. I've been watching some videos of Fallout 4 since spoilers don't bother me, and she is definitely one of the nicest companions we have. I'm surprised at how much Bethesda has advanced in companion writing, and look forward to seeing how far they can get with this new trend. 

 

It is weird to talk about Bethesda companions as human beings with personalities, and not just packmules for loot. 

 

I really love Curie, mostly because everything is a wonder to her, it is magical. Little things that we take for granted in every day life, and it makes me think. Then i just get sad because i feel like we squander the gift of life, i wish there were more videogame characters like her to remind me of how amazing life can be. 

That's a wonderful sentiment. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, that's one thing I like about characters like that. 

 

Her personality kind of reminds me of Merrill's. The reason why because both are still kind of adapting to the world, I can see this with Merrill when she moves to Kirkwall and with Curie after completing her personal quests.

I can definitely see that. Yeah, neither have been away from their home before, so like Akabra said everything is a wonder to them. 

[Lady Artifice]

Yeah. I've been watching some videos of Fallout 4 since spoilers don't bother me, and she is definitely one of the nicest companions we have. I'm surprised at how much Bethesda has advanced in companion writing, and look forward to seeing how far they can get with this new trend. 

 

That's a wonderful sentiment. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, that's one thing I like about characters like that. 

 

I can definitely see that. Yeah, neither have been away from their home before, so like Akabra said everything is a wonder to them. 

 

 

Have you recruited Curie yet, Hanako? Make sure to read the terminal in the room where you find her. 

 

She's so darn adorable. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Have you recruited Curie yet, Hanako? Make sure to read the terminal in the room where you find her. 

 

She's so darn adorable. 

Yeah. After I saved the Minutemen in Concord and got them safely to Sanctuary Hills I made a beeline down a train track that was close to Concord and Vault 81 then did everything in there to get her. 

 

She is a perfect fit for how I play my character, so much so I triggered her personal quest even before reaching Diamond City. Everything I did had "Curie likes this" or "Curie loved that" show up on screen. 

[Gamedam Meister]

I'm glad that Fallout 4 has provided a love interest that can be seen strongly as demisexual.

[Andrew Lucas]

Unnecessary. Focus on more important stuff.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Unnecessary. Focus on more important stuff.

 

Well, it's a game. Technically everything about it is unnecessary. Since making a demisexual love interest wouldn't be any more work than making any other kind, and some people would like to see one, why not? Assuming there will be romances in DA4, and I think that's a good bet.

[Andrew Lucas]

Well, it's a game. Technically everything about it is unnecessary. Since making a demisexual love interest wouldn't be any more work than making any other kind, and some people would like to see one, why not? Assuming there will be romances in DA4, and I think that's a good bet.

Everyone wants to have something, Imagine if they had to cater to every single type of sexuality out there, it's a LOT of work for game that isn't a dating sim by any means; there's always that one more request, and that one, and that one.

So, yes, unnecessary.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Everyone wants to have something, Imagine if they had to cater to every single type of sexuality out there, it's a LOT of work for game that isn't a dating sim by any means; there's always that one more request, and that one, and that one.

So, yes, unnecessary.

 

But they don't have to cater to anyone if they don't want to. Nobody is going to make them. Hell, they don't have to put romances in the game at all. This is just a suggestion, much like the gay KISA thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody saying 'I would like a demisexual love interest' or with me saying 'I would really like to romance a dwarf.' BioWare can take the suggestions or leave them or ignore the entire forum.

 

I do not understand how a demisexual love interest is more unnecessary than any other kind.

[daveliam]

Slippery slope arguments are never really compelling.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

Unnecessary. Focus on more important stuff.

 

So... I would characterize a varied and interesting cast of characters, including romance options, as fairly important in the sort of plot heavy RPG that Bioware makes. There are other important things, of course, but I would place that as pretty high on the list. This could conceivably be an interesting new character who adds a lot of value for a lot of players.

 

What would you consider more important?

[Andrew Lucas]

But they don't have to cater to anyone if they don't want to. Nobody is going to make them. Hell, they don't have to put romances in the game at all. This is just a suggestion, much like the gay KISA thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody saying 'I would like a demisexual love interest' or with me saying 'I would really like to romance a dwarf.' BioWare can take the suggestions or leave them or ignore the entire forum.

I do not understand how a demisexual love interest is more unnecessary than any other kind.

I don't know why you're making drama now, never said you're not allowed to give your suggestion.

Chill.

So... I would characterize a varied and interesting cast of characters, including romance options, as fairly important in the sort of plot heavy RPG that Bioware makes. There are other important things, of course, but I would place that as pretty high on the list. This could conceivably be an interesting new character who adds a lot of value for a lot of players.

What would you consider more important?

How does sexuality makes a character interesting, uh?

Because if we follow your logic,

Romance is better than anything else that can define a solid game - such as a coherent story, good gameplay, interesting visuals and engaging characters; not romance that you'll eventually mod so that your character can romance everything that breaths as seen in DAI and other games..it's a side content, not major.

"Bioware: Makes more gay and bisexual characters than any other game developers. Still not enough for everybody." - Quote from another fellow poster.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

How does sexuality makes a character interesting, uh?

Because if we follow your logic,

Romance is better than anything else that can define a solid game - such as a coherent story, good gameplay, interesting visuals and engaging characters; not romance that you'll eventually mod so that your character can romance everything that breaths as seen in DAI and other games..it's a side content, not major.

"Bioware: Makes more gay and bisexual characters than any other game developers. Still not enough for everybody." - Quote from another fellow poster.

 

And how exactly did my logic lead you there? That's not what I said.

[Natureguy85]

But they don't have to cater to anyone if they don't want to. Nobody is going to make them. Hell, they don't have to put romances in the game at all. This is just a suggestion, much like the gay KISA thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody saying 'I would like a demisexual love interest' or with me saying 'I would really like to romance a dwarf.' BioWare can take the suggestions or leave them or ignore the entire forum.

 

I do not understand how a demisexual love interest is more unnecessary than any other kind.

 

It's probably harder to write for a couple of reasons.

 

1a) It requires no hint of sexual interest. Often two people will show hints of interest through natural interaction, even if it isn't full blown desire to be with that person.

 

1b) When you try and do something like this, doing it "wrong" draws all kinds of venom from people who are whatever was trying to be portrayed.

 

2) It requires you to form a deeper relationship between the characters than these games often do.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

2) It requires you to form a deeper relationship between the characters than these games often do.

I think it would work best if the companion is one for more than one game. The first game can have the strong bond being developed, then in the second game is when the feelings start to emerge. You can do it in a single game, but having it across more than one would probably allow them to dive deeper into it. 

[Natureguy85]

I think it would work best if the companion is one for more than one game. The first game can have the strong bond being developed, then in the second game is when the feelings start to emerge. You can do it in a single game, but having it across more than one would probably allow them to dive deeper into it. 

 

That's a good point, which means this would probably be far more likely in a defined character narrative, like The Witcher, for example, where they can make sure the relationship is shown to and guarantee that it develops as oppose to a game like the Mass Effects, where you can just leave a companion at home and never talk to them. However, they could do something like they did with Tali in ME2, where she mentions events from the first game that drew her to Shepard.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's a good point, which means this would probably be far more likely in a defined character narrative, like The Witcher, for example, where they can make sure the relationship is shown to and guarantee that it develops as oppose to a game like the Mass Effects, where you can just leave a companion at home and never talk to them. However, they could do something like they did with Tali in ME2, where she mentions events from the first game that drew her to Shepard.

I was thinking more the latter, like they did with Tali and even Garrus. If you play the first game, you see the buildup of their friendship with Shepard. In the second, even if you don't play the first you can tell they have a strong bond with Shepard. 

[Gamedam Meister]

I was thinking more the latter, like they did with Tali and even Garrus. If you play the first game, you see the buildup of their friendship with Shepard. In the second, even if you don't play the first you can tell they have a strong bond with Shepard. 

Yeah, that would probably work better, since then it would give more time for them to differentiate it from other similar things. Since Mass Effect takes place in our future, they could also always have the character even describe it unlike in DA where such terminology doesn't exist. 

[nightscrawl]

2) It requires you to form a deeper relationship between the characters than these games often do.

I think it would work best if the companion is one for more than one game. The first game can have the strong bond being developed, then in the second game is when the feelings start to emerge. You can do it in a single game, but having it across more than one would probably allow them to dive deeper into it.

It could work depending on the format of the game itself, but then they have to put in the dialogue to support it.

Let's say that there were such a companion in DA2, since that (playable Hawke time) takes place over seven years. By Act 2 where the romance happens you've already known these people for three years. And of course Isabela and Fenris don't actually complete their romance until Act 3.

Let's take a DAI LI for comparison: Dorian. If your approval is high enough (usually requires going the In Hushed Whispers route), you can complete his entire romance, including quarters lock-in scene, shortly after arriving at Skyhold. This makes sense for him for various character reasons, but it does move very fast. Different LI have different pacing. It certainly could be possible to hold off on allowing full romance lock-in until the later part of the game.
 
But other than Natureguy85's point above, which I agree is somewhat of a concern, I don't see why this couldn't work given the appropriate dialogue responses from the NPC.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

From the OP:

What is the emotional bond demisexuals need for sexual attraction?

 

It varies based on the demisexual’s personal experiences and is slightly different for everyone. Emotional intimacy is a main component, usually, so some demisexuals find themselves attracted to close friends or romantic partners. Other components may include familiarity with the person and knowledge about them (ex: learning about aspects of their personality).

However, forming an emotional bond doesn’t guarantee that sexual attraction will happen. It is just a prerequisite for it to occur at all. The length of time required to develop an emotional bond may vary. For some demisexuals, it’s after several years of being close friends with someone, and for others, it might be a short but intense experience, such as traveling abroad for a week with them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It could work depending on the format of the game itself, but then they have to put in the dialogue to support it.

But other than Natureguy85's point above, which I agree is somewhat of a concern, I don't see why this couldn't work given the appropriate dialogue responses from the NPC.

As I said above, luckily with Mass Effect at least the universe uses our terminology so they could simply explain it if necessary. Dragon Age would be harder since the terminology isn't there. And for their new IP, can't say yet. 

 

Let's say that there were such a companion in DA2, since that (playable Hawke time) takes place over seven years. By Act 2 where the romance happens you've already known these people for three years. And of course Isabela and Fenris don't actually complete their romance until Act 3.

Yeah, that's why until Bioware confirmed all the LIs other than Sebastian as bisexual I saw Merrill as demisexual, since she fit a lot of the other patterns and it took three years before her feelings for Hawke sprouted. 

 

Let's take a DAI LI for comparison: Dorian. If your approval is high enough (usually requires going the In Hushed Whispers route), you can complete his entire romance, including quarters lock-in scene, shortly after arriving at Skyhold. This makes sense for him for various character reasons, but it does move very fast. Different LI have different pacing. It certainly could be possible to hold off on allowing full romance lock-in until the later part of the game.

It is confirmed that from the start of the game to getting to Skyhold takes place over the span of a few months, so for characters like Josephine for example whose been there since the beginning the time and intensity of them working together can create that bond. 

[nightscrawl]

It is confirmed that from the start of the game to getting to Skyhold takes place over the span of a few months...

Sorry, where is this confirmed? I'm always interested in exact measurements of time in these games, since there are so few.

[Natureguy85]

 

It could work depending on the format of the game itself, but then they have to put in the dialogue to support it.

Let's say that there were such a companion in DA2, since that (playable Hawke time) takes place over seven years. By Act 2 where the romance happens you've already known these people for three years. And of course Isabela and Fenris don't actually complete their romance until Act 3.

Let's take a DAI LI for comparison: Dorian. If your approval is high enough (usually requires going the In Hushed Whispers route), you can complete his entire romance, including quarters lock-in scene, shortly after arriving at Skyhold. This makes sense for him for various character reasons, but it does move very fast. Different LI have different pacing. It certainly could be possible to hold off on allowing full romance lock-in until the later part of the game.
 
But other than Natureguy85's point above, which I agree is somewhat of a concern, I don't see why this couldn't work given the appropriate dialogue responses from the NPC.

 

 

But is it good enough to be told that the characters have a relationship? DA2 presents exactly the problem I was pointing to. Yes, Hawke has 10 years of relationships, but you the player only get a few brief glimpses into all that time. It's like how Obi-Wan and Anaking have to talk about adventures you don't get to see at the start of Attack of the Clones. We can't really see or feel their connection because it's mostly off screen.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sorry, where is this confirmed? I'm always interested in exact measurements of time in these games, since there are so few.

I can't remember where the Bioware dev said it, sorry.

But I know there is some ingame dialogue that references it being a few months. For example starting the romance with Josephine, which can happen almost immediately after getting to Skyhold, has her say "But we've haven't even known each other a few short months." when she gets flustered after the Inquisitor admits their feelings for her. I think a couple other characters mention a few months as well. 

[nightscrawl]

But is it good enough to be told that the characters have a relationship? DA2 presents exactly the problem I was pointing to. Yes, Hawke has 10 years of relationships, but you the player only get a few brief glimpses into all that time. It's like how Obi-Wan and Anaking have to talk about adventures you don't get to see at the start of Attack of the Clones. We can't really see or feel their connection because it's mostly off screen.

 

I will admit that DA2 comes across badly for two main reasons: the time jumps are jarring, AND we can only have conversations with our followers during their quests that are locked to certain approval levels. I don't think that DAI or DAO has significantly more romance content than DA2, it's only a matter of presentation.

 

I primarily used DA2 as an example since we know that game took place over a long period of time.

 

 

I can't remember where the Bioware dev said it, sorry.

But I know there is some ingame dialogue that references it being a few months. For example starting the romance with Josephine, which can happen almost immediately after getting to Skyhold, has her say "But we've haven't even known each other a few short months." when she gets flustered after the Inquisitor admits their feelings for her. I think a couple other characters mention a few months as well. 

 

At any rate, that's not important in the grand scheme of things. As I said above, it's all about presentation. If the player has the illusion that there has been a decent amount of time to get to know the person and become close with them, then it can work.

 

I know you quoted the definition of demisexuality again, and I understand that that is what it is like for that person. BUT you have to consider the player's perspective since they are the one playing out the romance. If the NPC makes remarks along those lines, of forming an emotional bond and so forth, the player has to feel that there has been the time for that to happen or it will seem fake.

 

I can provide a counter example. For a female PC, the first, often controversial Anders flirt has him offer a warning that he would break your heart if they pursued anything. Regardless of the fact that this is just Anders being his f'd up self, it has always seemed absurd to me since we have only just met. That is mentally jarring and I supremely dislike the line.

 

It's not necessarily just about representing a demisexual NPC in the correct way, it's also about presenting the romance to the player in such a way that it can conform to demisexuality and make it seem "real" in that sense. You want the person to be a demisexual, not just an average-sexual person who might wait to have sex for whatever reason, which reasons you stated in your OP.

 

And whether it's in Mass Effect or Dragon Age, or some other game, I would generally prefer no labels. I readily admit that they can be convenient and even helpful, but I don't always think they are necessary. You stated that you initially thought that Merrill was demisexual, and that is based solely on the sequence of events rather than any such descriptions being used in the game.

 

It would actually be my preference for them to portray a demisexual romance without having the NPC explain it as such. Actions speak louder than words, and you can often see how a person is changing toward you as an emotional bond forms and gets stronger.

[Natureguy85]

I will admit that DA2 comes across badly for two main reasons: the time jumps are jarring, AND we can only have conversations with our followers during their quests that are locked to certain approval levels. I don't think that DAI or DAO has significantly more romance content than DA2, it's only a matter of presentation.

 

I primarily used DA2 as an example since we know that game took place over a long period of time.

 

 

 

At any rate, that's not important in the grand scheme of things. As I said above, it's all about presentation. If the player has the illusion that there has been a decent amount of time to get to know the person and become close with them, then it can work.

 

I know you quoted the definition of demisexuality again, and I understand that that is what it is like for that person. BUT you have to consider the player's perspective since they are the one playing out the romance. If the NPC makes remarks along those lines, of forming an emotional bond and so forth, the player has to feel that there has been the time for that to happen or it will seem fake.

 

I can provide a counter example. For a female PC, the first, often controversial Anders flirt has him offer a warning that he would break your heart if they pursued anything. Regardless of the fact that this is just Anders being his f'd up self, it has always seemed absurd to me since we have only just met. That is mentally jarring and I supremely dislike the line.

 

It's not necessarily just about representing a demisexual NPC in the correct way, it's also about presenting the romance to the player in such a way that it can conform to demisexuality and make it seem "real" in that sense. You want the person to be a demisexual, not just an average-sexual person who might wait to have sex for whatever reason, which reasons you stated in your OP.

 

And whether it's in Mass Effect or Dragon Age, or some other game, I would generally prefer no labels. I readily admit that they can be convenient and even helpful, but I don't always think they are necessary. You stated that you initially thought that Merrill was demisexual, and that is based solely on the sequence of events rather than any such descriptions being used in the game.

 

It would actually be my preference for them to portray a demisexual romance without having the NPC explain it as such. Actions speak louder than words, and you can often see how a person is changing toward you as an emotional bond forms and gets stronger.

 

It's not that Origins has more, it's that it's a connected whole. Also, the team is actually traveling together rather than just being in the same general area and getting together once in awhile. You know pretty much what happens between the characters and see them develop their relationship with the Warden and each other. In DA2 it's broken up by time so we really have no sense of how these characters interact and how their relationships have formed.