I would centennially disagree with the notion that the Blight could ever consume the whole world. No way that would ever happen.
Why would you disagree once every 100 years? 
Maybe not because the Wardens have numbers and are organized outside of Ferelden, but the Darkspawn would also be much stronger if they weren't stopped there. I'd have to go back and listen to what Duncan says about the Blight.
The people of other countries might not care about Ferelden, but we the player are meant to. Also, those other countries would care if the Darkspawn were at their doorstep. Who outside of Kirkwall cares about Kirkwall?
And those other countries would deal with them then, they all have bigger armies and more Wardens. But they would wait until Fereldan get's destroyed and acted after that. Then they would move in and get to act as saviors. Players care about Fereldan too much. And of course no one cares about Kirkwall, as the city, a lot more people care about what happened there.
Now I'm not trying to say that Hawke is of much importance to the whole world. I'm just saying that HoF is in no way as important as people would have her to be (and qutie frankly, boring). I mean the same logic you have behind Hawkes "not being important", can very easily be applied to Warden as well. From the start she just have things happened to her instead of actually causing the things herself.
The HoF is the most important person in Origins and is certainly far more worthy of recognition than Hawke. One killed an Archdemon and the other did...stuff.
Haweke is nowhere near as important in affecting Thedas. Hawke was mostly along for the ride as events happened around him/her.
Okay, I'm reluctant to perpetuate this debate, but - even though, as someone who loves DA:O and is distinctly underwhelmed by DA2, I'd lean towards the HoF being the more important of the two - let's not forget one thing: We haven't seen the end of Hawke's story yet. The events of DA2 are not the sum total of his/her achievements.
Hawke will be in DA:I. Whether that decision makes sense to us or not at this stage, let's just agree we don't know what Bioware have lined up for the Champion in DA:I. By the end of that, we may all have to reevaluate his/her significance. One way or the other!
And those other countries would deal with them then, they all have bigger armies and more Wardens. But they would wait until Fereldan get's destroyed and acted after that. Then they would move in and get to act as saviors. Players care about Fereldan too much. And of course no one cares about Kirkwall, as the city, a lot more people care about what happened there.
Now I'm not trying to say that Hawke is of much importance to the whole world. I'm just saying that HoF is in no way as important as people would have her to be (and qutie frankly, boring). I mean the same logic you have behind Hawkes "not being important", can very easily be applied to Warden as well. From the start she just have things happened to her instead of actually causing the things herself.
They didnt do so well against the fourth blight. That took a long time
They didnt do so well against the fourth blight. That took a long time
That is true but my point was, if something as small as Fereldan was able to deal with the Blight on it's own. It shouldn't be that much of a problem for the other, bigger countries.It actually doesn't make much sense that they were able to do that. I mean, one Dalish clan (those are quite small), few mages, bunch of decimated troops and... well there could actually be a quite a lot of dwarves but that's it.
And those other countries would deal with them then, they all have bigger armies and more Wardens. But they would wait until Fereldan get's destroyed and acted after that. Then they would move in and get to act as saviors. Players care about Fereldan too much. And of course no one cares about Kirkwall, as the city, a lot more people care about what happened there.
Now I'm not trying to say that Hawke is of much importance to the whole world. I'm just saying that HoF is in no way as important as people would have her to be (and qutie frankly, boring). I mean the same logic you have behind Hawkes "not being important", can very easily be applied to Warden as well. From the start she just have things happened to her instead of actually causing the things herself.
That may well be true for the national armies, but would they be successful? Loghain thought he could handle it too, but he didn't take the threat seriously and didn't know what was at stake. He certainly didn't know about the Archdemon.
But that wouldn't be true of the Wardens. Their whole existence is to defeat the Darkspawn. And if the Blight spilled over into just one area, the same logic applies that the other countries wouldn't care then either.
The Warden's story certainly starts as having events happen around them, but it doesn't stay that way. After Ostagar, the Warden chooses where to go and whom to help. They decide the fate of the anvil of the void, who rules Orzammar, the fate of the entire Circle of Magi in Ferelden, the fate of Redcliffe, the fate of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the fate of the largest Dalish clan in the nation, the next ruler of the kingdom, and are given the opportunity to be the first Warden to survive killing the Archdemon at the cost of performing a strange ritual we don't understand.
Part of Hawke's problem is that the game time skips over what would be interesting parts of Hawke's life. I think skipping that first year was a mistake. We don't get to learn the city with Hawke or learn what it's like just starting out there. We don't get the tension between Hawke and Aveline as the former works with shady groups as the latter becomes a guardsman. We don't get to work our way up through the ranks and actually earn the respect we are told Hawke has at the start of Act 1. We don't get to see the Hawke family's transition from lower to upper class. These things just happen off screen.
Also, this is not an argument that the Warden his/herself needs to show up as Dragon Age Origins/Awakening/Witch Hunt pretty well wrapped up their story. The Ultimate Sacrifice forces us pretty hard toward needing a new protagonist. But I feel that we should have picked up where that story left off. I'm very intrigued to see what role they play in Inquisition.
That is true but my point was, if something as small as Fereldan was able to deal with the Blight on it's own. It shouldn't be that much of a problem for the other, bigger countries.It actually doesn't make much sense that they were able to do that. I mean, one Dalish clan (those are quite small), few mages, bunch of decimated troops and... well there could actually be a quite a lot of dwarves but that's it.
True, but Ferelden also fought the Blight at it's weakest.
The HoF is the most important person in Origins and is certainly far more worthy of recognition than Hawke. One killed an Archdemon and the other did...stuff.
Haweke is nowhere near as important in affecting Thedas. Hawke was mostly along for the ride as events happened around him/her.
The HOF being the most important person alive in 9:30-9:31 does not mean the that HOF is the most important person from 9:32 and beyond. The Dragon Age series is not about the Warden, or the blight, or Darkspawn in general. It's about the events that occur during the Dragon Age.
The fact is that Hawke affected Kirkwall, from 9:33-9:37, and the events of Kirkwall affected the whole of Thedas from 9:37-9:40. There can be no dispute that Hawke had some role in those events. And if those events have affected Thedas more than the Fifth Blight, then it means Hawke is far more important to the Dragon Age than the HOF is(Anders is more important to the events than Hawke, but Hawke is still important to them, nonetheless). The HOF is important to Ferelden... But, as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, Ferelden isn't the only country in Thedas, nor is it the most important country.
That is true but my point was, if something as small as Fereldan was able to deal with the Blight on it's own. It shouldn't be that much of a problem for the other, bigger countries.It actually doesn't make much sense that they were able to do that. I mean, one Dalish clan (those are quite small), few mages, bunch of decimated troops and... well there could actually be a quite a lot of dwarves but that's it.
They didnt fight all the darkspawn though. If the Archdemon and it's generals hadn't been killed Denerim would have been overrun
They didnt fight all the darkspawn though. If the Archdemon and it's generals hadn't been killed Denerim would have been overrun
This is an important point I meant to make earlier. We don't know that the combined army would have been able to defeat the darkspawn had the latter not run away as soon as the Archdemon dies. Think of The Return of the King movie, where Aragorn and company are totally surrounded by enemies and about to be overwhelmed, but the destruction of the tower causes the enemies to flee.
It seems you don't have much understanding of the fact that the team have limited time. The team can't just do all the work for free because they have lives to live outside of programming the game and Keep, a point you seem to be forgetting. They are not our servants to do as we demand. They are people that have been given a time limit and ran into a brick wall when they couldn't import saves, and thus had some of their limited time wasted. So that's the issue. Time.
Now I agree with you, the Keep isn't just a world importer its the story of our Warden's and Hawke's. But you aren't being practical and you're complaint isn't well placed time wise. They have a couple of weeks to get the keep up and running at a good enough standard with all the decisions that they've managed to program into Inquisition to make it effect the in-game world. if they could spend forever on it we'd get the perfect game, but they can't. So cut them some slack. Yes, we need to make our voices heard, but yours has come across as rather...unreasonable. For example, Isabela...how many people has she slept with besides the Warden and/or Hawke? Do you really think she's going to bring it up easily.
Now could those decisions be important in an update or DLC of some sort? Yes, but right now their main focus is getting the Keep ready for Inquisitions lanch day. Your complaint isn't valid until after that point, because then they aren't tied to such a short strict deadline. If you'd waited say...a week, after Inquisitions launch world wide, then yes your complaint would have gained more validity and more support. But right now, most of us are going to dismiss it because we grasp the fct that the team have had a time limit to work with.
The HOF being the most important person alive in 9:30-9:31 does not mean the that HOF is the most important person from 9:32 and beyond. The Dragon Age series is not about the Warden, or the blight, or Darkspawn in general. It's about the events that occur during the Dragon Age.
The fact is that Hawke affected Kirkwall, from 9:33-9:37, and the events of Kirkwall affected the whole of Thedas from 9:37-9:40. There can be no dispute that Hawke had some role in those events. And if those events have affected Thedas more than the Fifth Blight, then it means Hawke is far more important to the Dragon Age than the HOF is(Anders is more important to the events than Hawke, but Hawke is still important to them, nonetheless). The HOF is important to Ferelden... But, as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, Ferelden isn't the only country in Thedas, nor is it the most important country.
I never said the HoF was the most important person in Thedas, but they are certainly more important and their story more interesting than Hawke. Hawke did not affect Kirkwall a great deal and almost none of it would affect anything beyond Kirkwall. Anders initiates the Mage Rebellion, not Hawke. Hawke choosing sides doesn't change much of anything other than how many mages survive. I could see the Arishok returning with the book or being killed mattering.
Ferelden may not be the most important country but it is the one we have the most investment in. Remember the complaints about Earth being so central to Mass Effect 3 despite players having no connection to it other than that it's the planet we live on in real life?
That said, I'm sure they will find ways in Inquisition and later to make things matter even if they don't on their face. I just hope it's not ham-fisted or contrived.
I never said the HoF was the most important person in Thedas, but they are certainly more important and their story more interesting than Hawke.
Whether the HOF has a more interesting story is subjective. I enjoyed the story in Origins, but I found nothing compelling in it that made me like them, in any way, more than Hawke...
But the HOF's importance, in the grand scheme of things, can't really be disputed: The HOF is not important at all. If they were, they'd have been seen/mentioned after 9:31, far more than they have been...
Ferelden may not be the most important country but it is the one we have the most investment in. Remember the complaints about Earth being so central to Mass Effect 3 despite players having no connection to it other than that it's the planet we live on in real life?
There is nothing interesting about Fereldan for me. It's a boring country.
The HoF has a role to play (in the background) and the Champion has their own (bigger) role to play as well. Remember that there was supposed to be a big Exalted March dlc showing what happened because of the war.
Also the Champion set Corypehus free
They didnt do so well against the fourth blight. That took a long time
It took only 12 years. That was the shortest Blight in history at the time. Eventually the other nations would have almost certainly defeated the Archdemon, but little would probably be left of Ferelden by then.
The HoF has a role to play (in the background) and the Champion has their own (bigger) role to play as well. Remember that there was supposed to be a big Exalted March dlc showing what happened because of the war.
Also the Champion set Corypehus free
Which is the most significant thing Hawke does in the entire game.
Edit: and that took a DLC to happen
Whether the HOF has a more interesting story is subjective. I enjoyed the story in Origins, but I found nothing compelling in it that made me like them, in any way, more than Hawke...
But the HOF's importance, in the grand scheme of things, can't really be disputed: The HOF is not important at all. If they were, they'd have been seen/mentioned after 9:31, far more than they have been...
That depends on what the grand scheme of things is. I'm sure the HoF isn't important to the mage v templar issue, but neither are the gray wardens generally. However when the dark spawn come back into the picture, that could change. It won't though because the HoF could be dead and that always minimizes a character's future role.
Although, if the HoF (or perhaps Orlesian Warden. I don't know since I never did that) weren't important, the Seekers wouldn't be looking for them.
I think it's certainly easier to argue a case for the Hero of Ferelden being more important than Hawke. One saved a whole country, while the other saved one city. One stopped a Blight which would have consumed the whole world, while the other didn't even manage to prevent one war.
I think that this discussion goes deeper than this. It's not a matter of who is more important: it's a matter that goes straight into the kind of different stories were being told in DA:O and DA2. In my opinion, Origins is epic: major threats, rulers, treaties between races, assemblies to elect kings, ancient artifacts, a landsmeet. In Kirkwall, the story is intimate: you have a character undergoing a sort of Greek Tragedy, in which he/she keeps rising to power and is nonetheless unable to save his/her loved ones. Both of them were pretty awesome, in my humble opinion, and I have enjoyed both of them greatly. But arguing on which character is more important, would be like arguing wether Oedipus is less important than Agamemnon. What kind of question is that? Different characters, different roles. A totally different angle. Just sit back and enjoy the stories. Every character has a different role to play when it comes to the great scheme of things. And now I sound like Gandalf.
Lots of important choices are missing from the Keep
Important characters like Velanna and Sigrun aren't even mentioned
And don't start talking about "well they prolly arent importantu". Is feeding the prisoner important? Like, seriously...
Keep lacks many choices which though maybe are not going to influence the DAI specifically, still played an important part of the previous games
Also the Champion set Corypehus free
Corepheus is a darkspawn, so...
Corepheus is a darkspawn, so...
He's one of the Ancient Magisters and can control Wardens. So not something the HoF can deal with
He's one of the Ancient Magisters and can control Wardens. So not something the HoF can deal with
He can't exactly control wardens: he talks to them, he can tempt them, and all the other stuff I don't want to spoil about, but I don't think he can control them like puppets. That would be too easy. I think he functions a lot like a demon, in that regard.
He can't exactly control wardens: he talks to them, he can tempt them, and all the other stuff I don't want to spoil about, but I don't think he can control them like puppets. That would be too easy. I think he functions a lot like a demon, in that regard.
Well the more tainted you are the easier it is for him
I'm not saying the tile shouldn't happen, but I think It's not at all important and it's most certainly not an omission.
But the reasons for me saying this are kinda different. Isabella knows Zevran (he killed her husband and she slept with him 'cause of that) and he had too many chances to die to be ever featured in a game ever again anyway. Isabella will always know who Leliana is, should the two of them meet again (they meet in DA2). The same goes for Alistar. Not to mention that the comics most likely did happen no matter what and they would have far broader impact on Alistar - Isabella relationship then their meeting in DA:O. The only thing that isn't reflected in the Keep is if Isabella met Warden or not.
And this is just my personal opinion but I believe Bioware is trying to move away from Warden as far as possible, there are just too many variables (not to mention the lack of voice actor) for him/her to ever appear again in a physical form. The amount of people that would go "this is not what MY Warden would say here" is just too big for them to be able to deal with it. Also, he/she can die for gods sake, and died in canon. Also, at which point would in a conversation between Inquisitor and Isabella would her relationship with Warden ever came up? Do you expect an "Can you give me a list of all important people you have ever slept with?" question?
Then you have the comics, if they are anything to go by then the Isabella we meet, should we ever meet her, is going to be a very different person indeed.
In short, there is no need for such a tile, if you are worried about future meetings between Isabella and Zevran/Alistar/Leliana/Warden. IN game(s). But there are also a lot of tiles in the Keep that I'm sure are never going to matter so adding one more can't hurt anyone.
I obviously strongly disagree about the Warden reappearing in future games (or Zevran for that matter), in so far as I believe they should be present at least as much as Alistair in the grand scheme of things. Alistair has three times the oppurtunity to be dead as the Warden, right? Or at least 2/1. And Nathaniel has made returns as well, despite two oppurtunities to die. Then of course there are the canonically live characters who could be killed in previous games. Reappearing characters are important, even more when their appearance or the nature thereof is a result of player choices. So they don't get a pass from me on that.
It brings up an interesting question about outside media, though. If Zev was so important in Isabella's life, why no acknowledgment in DA:O? Because it was canonically introduced after the fact. And then we have this huge role for Alistair in outside media. But if he's dead, there's some alter-canon version of those events, but either way, most players will never see those events played out. So unless all the outside books etc. featuring present day characters are done in "Choice of" style game books (which I absolutely recommend btw; many of them are excellent) and like films etc, and those media directly effect characters that inhabit our worldstates, shouldn't it be possible for us to use the Keep to determine what version of those events took place in our continuities? That would be cool and helpful. Along with the continuing presence of our customizable NPCs, a.k.a. our former surviving protagonists.
edit: As for Warden and Isabella, going by DA2, she wears it like a badge of honor. As for how it would come up with the Inquisitor, I imagine it'd be something like: Isabella: "You're looking for the Hero of Ferelden? You know, I knew him, during the blight. The stories I could tell.. " Inquisitor: "Right. That's why I'm here. Apparently, you've told your 'stories' to half of Thedas. Anything more current I could persuade you to divulge?" And of course, there's the potential of future scenes, maybe even something like a DLC where they're party members. There's the new agent systems to consider that should take past ties into account. Maybe someday we'll get a choice someday of how things play out off camera to determine who with and how our characters show up at some point in the future. The list goes on.
The ability to kind of co-sculpt our stories over an extended life is really BioWare's great innovation. You never know where it can go, if it's fully embraced.
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