312 réponses à ce sujet

[HellaciousHutch]

The healing in Inquisition can be classified as reactive healing really (mechanically speaking). The mechanics are very similar to the Inquisitor and Templar class in EverQuest. They are more about preventing the damage before it's done, and dispelling and canceling negative effects while said damage is being prevented, as to prevent damage being taken after the barrier/ward effect expires. 

 

It seems BioWare wanted to go with this method of healing instead of the typical healing associated with the RPG genre. Both valid.

[Amfortas]

I pretty much prefer using defensive skills cc and damage debuffs on the enemy than using the traditional healing abilities or potions. I've never liked the fact in normal gameplay getting hit means nothing.

 

As for Origins' spells, I'm not sure if I played the same game as the rest of the people, because at the end of the game I used every spell in my quickbar, which was full. The redundant or filler spells never made it into one of my quickslots, I had more spells than quickslots. And to be honest, I wouldn't have said no to even more spells.

[Xilizhra]

Preferring healing over mitigation is actually really sick from an RPing standpoint.

 

Warrior:  Great, the mage can make sure I don't take massive wounds from swords anymore!
 

Mage:  Yeah, but if you don't take those wounds... I can't be a HEALER! 

 

It's deranged. 

 

-------

 

You're right - DA:I doesn't have healers - they have protectors.  

This is absurd. Relying solely on healing might hurt, but relying solely on protection leaves you completely stuck when it fails. And it will fail; barriers and the like are all temporary.

[Sylentmana]

It's my personal opinion that what makes mages powerful is their versatility and large variety of spells.  They should also have an extensive spell list so you always have something for every situation.  That being said, the only games I've played that meets this criteria are the table-top pen and paper games.

 

I admit that I'm disappointed in the spell variety for Inquisition and view this type of streamlining to be a detriment to games that far too many developers end up emplementing in their games.  In my opinion, it says to players "we didn't have time to create a proper magic system so here is a glass cannon." This is somewhat understandable as games, especially Inquisition, are getting much bigger with a lot of work involved in creating it. Its a limited medium and funding plays a major part in what is included and what is left in the character sheets.

 

However, this does not effect my excitment for the game nor should it anyone else's.  For me, its making the rogue look like a better option. I'm thinking of grabbing me stabbers, taking the Tempest spec, and pretending to be a ninja for this particular jaunt through Thedas.

[Navasha]

Well, in the end, all classes have been cut down to just having 8 skills.   While this definitely affects mages quite a bit more, I will have to see how they "feel" in the game itself.  

 

I do know that in ESO with its 5 only skills, you felt very limited and combat turned into mindless repetition regardless of what enemy you encountered.   The 5 skill limit was ultimately what killed that game for me.    Who wants to cycle over and over the same skills ad nauseum in every battle?

 

I am hoping that since DA at least has 4 characters to control in battle and 8 skills each, I don't feel like I am entering every battle as a simply a proxy for a keyboard macro.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  No Xil, it's not absurd. 

 

When you fail... THEN healing becomes necessary.  

 

And that's why my Knight Enchanter will be such a boss at protecting.

 

My Barriers will be maxed (with reduced cool downs, reflecting dmg, etc).

 

Spirit tree - maxed. 

 

Focus: Heal

 

Loving the idea behind Life Ward - just curious how it works with Revive. 

 

And I can't wait to find out what's at the bottom of the KE tree (Eluvianus Rex - you're my "go to" DA:I wiki - we find out yet?)  

 

I look forward to playing a Mage Protector over a Mage Healer.  I like the idea of my mage stepping up and actually being pro-active.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  No Xil, it's not absurd. 

 

When you fail... THEN healing becomes necessary.  

 

And that's why my Knight Enchanter will be such a boss at protecting.

 

My Barriers will be maxed (with reduced cool downs, reflecting dmg, etc).

 

Spirit tree - maxed. 

 

Focus: Heal

 

Loving the idea behind Life Ward - just curious how it works with Revive. 

 

And I can't wait to find out what's at the bottom of the KE tree (Eluvianus Rex - you're my "go to" DA:I wiki - we find out yet?)  

 

I look forward to playing a Mage Protector over a Mage Healer.  I like the idea of my mage stepping up and actually being pro-active.

I find healing to be much more fun than mitigation, although avoiding attrition (something you simply can't do with barriers, as you have to be in combat for them to work) is the biggest part of it.

[DMaster2]

I think people think of "healing" as healing in the traditional sense, which is reactive healing, i.e. take x damage, restore x health. 

 

But, players who have MMO experience probably have been exposed to a lot of classes who are "healers" but specialize completely/predominanty in the usage of shields. Damage prevention in terms of shields is basically healing except it's proactive instead of reactive.

 

Preventing x damage with a spell is basically the same as restoring x health because the receiver is going to be as healthy in the end. In fact, oftentimes, I find shields more useful because they can absorb burst damage. You can't heal a person who is dead (this is excluding revival) from burst, no matter how fast you react. 

No one is complaining about the introduction of barriers, which are fine. And you forgot to mention that those games still have a dedicated healing class, despite those mechanics you mentioned. And no, it's definitely not the same since you can have both if well implemented.

[Wulfsten]

being a mage kinda died for me with the 8-active ability limit, it'll be hit the hardest by that so *shrug*

 

not that i mind being a rouge or warrior anyway, i usually am some sort of melee focused build

 

If you've got this attitude I think you should readjust your expectations for what mages are compared to warriors and rogues.

 

In D&D, and therefore Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and DA:O (which was originally designed to use the D&D engine), mages were supposed to be a class with far more variety in their abilities, and a large non-combat role. Fighters/Warriors were supposed to have much more limited and simple gameplay – indeed in D&D 2^nd edition they basically just made basic melee attacks over and over.

 

That’s why DA:O still had warriors who were mostly just levelling up into passive and sustained abilities, with the odd special attack, whereas mages had dozens of spells to choose from.  

 

Dragon Age’s gameplay philosophy has changed drastically since those days. In DA2, Bioware made it clear that they wanted each of the classes to feel like they have multiple abilities that have complex effects on the battlefield. Each one should be as interesting and rewarding to play as the other.

 

The fact that in DA:I mages have the same number of talents/spells as the other classes is a sign that they’re fulfilling their design spec. If you’re only interested in mages if they are considerably more complex and varied than the other classes, I’m not sure you’re going to be satisfied any time soon, because game design is moving in the direction of making sure all classes are equally complicated and interesting. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  And that's your prerogative - but that's not how this game is going to function and you've already been told a hundred times that modding Frostbite is really difficult.  I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong to like being a healer - I am going to tell you that your incessant complaining is for nothing and that being a healer is in no way superior and that it's just your opinion.  

 

Just be prepared to make your statements for DA:4 and hopefully you'll get your healer back (and I'll just relegate the healer to the background again).  

[Paul E Dangerously]

@Xilizhra:  And that's your prerogative - but that's not how this game is going to function and you've already been told a hundred times that modding Frostbite is really difficult.  I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong to like being a healer - I am going to tell you that your incessant complaining is for nothing and that being a healer is in no way superior and that it's just your opinion.  

 

Just be prepared to make your statements for DA:4 and hopefully you'll get your healer back (and I'll just relegate the healer to the background again).  

 

That's what some of us thought for DAI. Gameplay is low on the totem pole.

[andar91]

Well, in the end, all classes have been cut down to just having 8 skills.   While this definitely affects mages quite a bit more, I will have to see how they "feel" in the game itself.  

 

You can switch skills in and out. I realize some people say they won't or that they don't want to or that that isn't good enough...but I still think it's important to keep in mind. 

 

As for healing, I'm not really all that bothered myself. I think how healing looks has changed quite a bit (not talking about Barrier). It's more like Revival is the standard heal spell so you aren't breaking it out for minor injuries, but when party members are down, you can get them back up. I dunno.

 

Maybe in the next game they'll include a healing spell that's more traditional, but if the gameplay is the same, the only way it will work is to set a limit on how high it can get your health. Such as...50% is the maximum or something like that. Otherwise, it renders health nearly unimportant if your mage can just heal everybody up as soon as the fight is done. And I don't want that because I love the new design of adventures (rather than just encounters).

[sangy]

I haven't done enough research on the mage spells and abilities yet.  I guess I was leaving some things to be surprised by.  I wasn't aware of the number of spells in each game, but it is interesting to see the difference.

 

I'm not counting out the mage effectiveness yet.  As I can't really tell exactly what's going on in the videos that are posted for DA:I, but I can say that every video I've seen has included a mage.  I'm guessing they're very effective in combat and can really keep the party going when things are done right.  I think the DA team worked a bit on balance this time around.  Both DA:O and DA2 I was able to pretty much use any combination of classes in a party.  This time around it looks like each class is very useful for specific situations.  That's cool.  It may make things a little more challenging, but with the difficulty choices, it shouldn't be too bad.

 

Someone mentioned some of the previous spells on earlier DA games, some of the spells did things that might not be so necessary.   Such as the weapon enchantments.  I know they had enchantments before, but you can also upgrade your weapons and gear with better materials which make you better equipped for battle. 

 

I know a lot of you are a lot more informed than I am, but I still think that you need to give it a go before giving it a thumbs down.  I don't think they would have released the game with broken mage abilities and spells.  I wish I could remember some of the things Mike Laidlaw has said in the videos while playing mage.  He's made some really good points about each class and their usefulness.

 

My first play through will be mage.  I'm still thinking it will be good.

[Elevon]

Let's also not forget that specific animations that go into every single spell, in Origins it's just wave your magic hand for something rather minor to happen. Progressing through the series each spell began to gain its own identity and animation.

 

And if you honestly need to be playing with 70, rather similar, spells then go back to Origins and Awakening.

 

Problem is every player that plays  mage  in DA likes to play  and use different spells,I keep saying I've the feeling  this game in some ways is   being dumbed down and looks like I'm being right,wonder how far they will go with DA4 maybe only ten spells for mages.

 

You can argue all you want but taking skills/options away from the player is not what RPGs are about no matter how you try to justify it.

My mage is now a third rate magic user.

[Patchwork]

I don't like the heavy emphasis on elemental magic it seriously cuts down the versatility of mages (which could have been the point) but I'm really disappointed not to have one single cast healing spell- by all means give it a long cool down/cast time so it can't be spammed but you can't convince me that spamming barrier and potions is somehow oh so superior. Both options could have been in the game and gameplay could be all the better for it. 

[inquisitioned]

I think we can all agree that from what we've seen the spells DA:I look great and better designed than in previous games, and that Origins had a spell bloat (although some people are seriously overexaggerating it - if you found only 3 useful spells and you cast them in every combat, that's your playstyle and it's fine, but it's definitely not all that Origins had to offer).
It's just a shame some other characteristic mage-y things like entropy, buffs and glyphs got the axe. It was not an unreasonable thing to do with the new system, seeing that the amount of actives had to be cut down drastically to fit the new 8 abilities doctrine, and this must have been easier to balance, but it's a shame.
We still know nothing about the necromancer and the rift mage trees, so here's hoping there'll be some more diversity there.

btw. was this, like, the only topic on the forums that wasn't about how there's no more heal spell?

[HTTP 404]

The "can't please everyone" threads are going to be common place on the BSN come a new game.

 

I think all the classes have "less" trees to use and only one specialization.  I rather like it if it turns out each ability is have more punch than abilities in the past games.

[wcholcombe]

I don't like the heavy emphasis on elemental magic it seriously cuts down the versatility of mages (which could have been the point) but I'm really disappointed not to have one single cast healing spell- by all means give it a long cool down/cast time so it can't be spammed but you can't convince me that spamming barrier and potions is somehow oh so superior. Both options could have been in the game and gameplay could be all the better for it. 

You can't spam potions considering you only have 8.

[RedWulfi]

I always found mages to to a lot more powerful than the other classes, so i dont care.

[janddran]

Can someone tell me why Bioware is advertising that there are over 200 spells in some of their previous videos?

 

I've avoided looking much at the game itself to avoid spoilers but this thread caught my eye.

There is obviously a big difference between 17 and 200.

 

P.S. I double checked at it's across all classes but still it would seem the division would be

more balanced.

https://twitter.com/...758092131348481

[Medhia_Nox]

@Paul E Dangerously:  These threads only started showing up when the game was near completion.

 

Though you'll have my voice to contend with come DA:4 - because while I haven't played it yet, I'm very excited about everything I've read so far. 

 

Concerning gameplay - none of that has anything to do with roleplaying for me - I could roleplay with a four-sided and a character name (or just a Character Name).  

 

Note: Of course I find some rules systems more or less enjoyable - but that's just my opinion, not some dogmatic objective reality. 

[wcholcombe]

This is absurd. Relying solely on healing might hurt, but relying solely on protection leaves you completely stuck when it fails. And it will fail; barriers and the like are all temporary.

Which is why warriors generate guard and have a self healing system of some sort.

 

I have to be honest, it makes more sense to me for a warrior to have control over their healing and not dependent on a mage to stop slinging spells to heal them   The last bit was partly in jest

[Yermogi]

While initially I was disappointed about this issue, I trust that the Devs know what they're doing. They wouldn't make a game that's completely impossible to play, nor would they throw us into a game where the chances of us dying are so monumental that the lack of healing and buff spells will get us KO'd every time we get into a fight. It will be an adjustment, but I'm sure they know what they're doing. We'll just have to trust them and see.

[Elevon]

I always found mages to to a lot more powerful than the other classes, so i dont care.

 

 

Mages are supposed to be powerful offensively,fun part  is the options of skills available to the mage.

[Paul E Dangerously]

@Paul E Dangerously:  These threads only started showing up when the game was near completion.

 

Though you'll have my voice to contend with come DA:4 - because while I haven't played it yet, I'm very excited about everything I've read so far. 

 

Concerning gameplay - none of that has anything to do with roleplaying for me - I could roleplay with a four-sided and a character name (or just a Character Name).  

 

Note: Of course I find some rules systems more or less enjoyable - but that's just my opinion, not some dogmatic objective reality. 

 

Primarily because Bioware's been hiding everything to keep fans from finding out. They just keep parroting "tactical!" while removing whole swaths of character options that people have to find out about through scouring streams and dodgy Twitter messages.