312 réponses à ce sujet

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

I think the 8-ability limit, more than anything else, hinders the mage the most.

[Mightylink]

Wile they have fewer options they seem really cool with all the new options they got, Knight Enhancer and Necromancer sounds hella fun to play over previous games.

[Churchader]

Mages finally off the god tier. Serves them right

[umadcommander]

If you've got this attitude I think you should readjust your expectations for what mages are compared to warriors and rogues.

 

In D&D, and therefore Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and DA:O (which was originally designed to use the D&D engine), mages were supposed to be a class with far more variety in their abilities, and a large non-combat role. Fighters/Warriors were supposed to have much more limited and simple gameplay – indeed in D&D 2^nd edition they basically just made basic melee attacks over and over.

 

That’s why DA:O still had warriors who were mostly just levelling up into passive and sustained abilities, with the odd special attack, whereas mages had dozens of spells to choose from.  

 

Dragon Age’s gameplay philosophy has changed drastically since those days. In DA2, Bioware made it clear that they wanted each of the classes to feel like they have multiple abilities that have complex effects on the battlefield. Each one should be as interesting and rewarding to play as the other.

 

The fact that in DA:I mages have the same number of talents/spells as the other classes is a sign that they’re fulfilling their design spec. If you’re only interested in mages if they are considerably more complex and varied than the other classes, I’m not sure you’re going to be satisfied any time soon, because game design is moving in the direction of making sure all classes are equally complicated and interesting. 

thats possibly worse, the draw of a mage is having varied spells, a mage having the same amount of activated abilites as say a sword+shield warrior sounds much less appealing no matter how its dressed up, regardless if 17 "total" active spells is all there is then thats verging on pathetic and id feel sorry on anyone set on being a caster, thats not many spells from each school at all

 

besides it doesnt matter to me i already ruled out being a mage for the previous reason, if they just dont have the level of abilities you'd expect full stop then my overall choice of class wont change

[bluebullets]

Mages finally off the god tier. Serves them right

No. it doesn't. Mages should, by nature, have more abilities, and be more flashy.

 

Warriors close gaps and lop off heads. Mages use flame, cold, hexes, conjure storms, summon spirits...

[Meltemph]

No. it doesn't. Mages should, by nature, have more abilities, and be more flashy.

 

Warriors close gaps and lop off heads. Mages use flame, cold, hexes, conjure storms, summon spirits...

They should have ACCESS to more abilities maybe, but I dont believe they should have more abilities as a whole(after choosing those abilities). As a non magic player it is annoying how much attention the mage class gets by comparison. It was much, much worse in D&D games, so I'm not complaining, really, but it is nice to see that non casters are getting the same amount of attention in this game.

[FumikoM]

I loved being a mage in DAII. After reading about them and seeing videos I doubt I'll be playing one in Inquisition. The melee mage (swinging that staff in close-range was cool, imo) is gone and my favorite spec the Blood Mage is also gone. I liked the force mage, too.

 

Sure, it's nice flinging spells at enemies, but in the videos the mage simply does not seem have the "oomph" that the rouge and warrior has. For example; Rogue with their ability to go right through an enemy (always loved that in anime), and the warrior smacking down with their two-hander almost shaking the ground. I'm talking about animations here, not the damage capabilities. There's just something plain about the mage that bores me.

 

The only thing that mages in Inquistion have now is, well, the ability to use clothing. Some of the clothing I have seen looks good and I'm a bit shallow (well a lot really), but it ain't enough to sway me over.

 

Edit: Another thing, the mages in videos I've seen always comes off as just a supporter, like a henchmen, a minion. And not like someone who can hold their own, thus not at all fitting the protagonist I think.

 

Yeah I feel sad to say that the mage have become really dull. Maybe I will feel differently if I play as one, but from what I have seen I doubt it.

[sylvanaerie]

For what it's worth I will be playing a mage come release.

Wait...this just hit me.  You guys actually wait for release day?

 

OMG I couldn't.  I'd find a nice dark corner I could hide a laptop in and play till my fingers bled.

 

I'd be such a lousy employee I'd be on the unemployment line the next day.

[Fiddzz]

Played a mage on my first playthrough, didn't feel constrained in spell choice, I went pure damage and it was a blast.

[JohnstonMR]

I have to agree. I played a control/support mage with some damage from fire and lightning in the others, and thus far everything I'm seeing is AOE elementalist flavorings.  They talk about trying to make it more tactical, then give all the CC and single target damage to the rogues.

 

As it is, the only reason I'm playing this game now is the story. Mages are a supreme disappointment so far.

Why don't you wait until you've played it before making statements like that? 

[JohnstonMR]

They should have ACCESS to more abilities maybe, but I dont believe they should have more abilities as a whole(after choosing those abilities). As a non magic player it is annoying how much attention the mage class gets by comparison. It was much, much worse in D&D games, so I'm not complaining, really, but it is nice to see that non casters are getting the same amount of attention in this game.

I just want to say that, as a longtime and almost-exclusive Mage player, I get where you're coming from, and I actually pretty much agree with you.  Nobody should be left out in the cold.  

[Astrolabe]

Why don't you wait until you've played it before making statements like that? 

Because some people just really like to file a grievance based on incomplete evidence and information. I try to empathize with most people to an extent, but frankly, it's very hard to do when they're just plainly misinterpreting what's been shown. 

[Super Drone]

It's about having fun ,my mage was not in that tower for many years just to  learn a few spells only .

 

Game Balance is fun for some people. So is not having one class be inherently better than the others.

[Super Drone]

No. it doesn't. Mages should, by nature, have more abilities, and be more flashy.

 

 

 According to who, exactly?

[Heimdall]

I don't think I've seen enough of Mage abilities to make a judgement about how limited they are, but from what I've seen the four trees available are much more extensive than in previous games, so I'm comfortable with that.

[cjones91]

The combat system has changed drastically,while it sucks that mages are less varied than before they still have plenty of spells to be effective.

[JakBlitz]

Played a mage on my first playthrough, didn't feel constrained in spell choice, I went pure damage and it was a blast.

 

What spec. and trees did you use predominately? 

[RedIntifada]

Can someone tell me why Bioware is advertising that there are over 200 spells in some of their previous videos?

I've avoided looking much at the game itself to avoid spoilers but this thread caught my eye.
There is obviously a big difference between 17 and 200.

P.S. I double checked at it's across all classes but still it would seem the division would be
more balanced.
https://twitter.com/...758092131348481

1. The number 17 is wrong
2. The 200 includes passives and upgrades

[Lennard Testarossa]

 According to who, exactly?

 

The lore.

[Meltemph]

The lore.

The lore states there are a lot of spells, not that mages(much less all mages) know all schools or even master them. We dont know the lore average of known spells per mage.

[Morroian]

Dragon Age’s gameplay philosophy has changed drastically since those days. In DA2, Bioware made it clear that they wanted each of the classes to feel like they have multiple abilities that have complex effects on the battlefield. Each one should be as interesting and rewarding to play as the other.

 

The fact that in DA:I mages have the same number of talents/spells as the other classes is a sign that they’re fulfilling their design spec. If you’re only interested in mages if they are considerably more complex and varied than the other classes, I’m not sure you’re going to be satisfied any time soon, because game design is moving in the direction of making sure all classes are equally complicated and interesting. 

 

I think in DA2 they got the balance right each class could spend the same amount of ability points but warrior and rogue probably had more passives and sustained abilities than mage, All 3 classes were fun to play. Now they've tipped the balance too far against mages, probably cause they thought they could with the 8 ability limit.

 

But they didn't have to reduce mages they could instead have brought rogues and warriors up to the same level as mages. Its not as though warriors and rogues don't have plenty of possibilities to choose from: Bard/ranger for rogue, dual wielding, bow and arrow, spirit warrior for warriors could have been added.

 

One thing that I like to reflect on is the way the kotor system (D20?) worked with melee having more feats and ranged having more abilities. The system was a bit clunky but possibly had the right approach in differentiating classes. 

[Assassin2727]

God forbid you actually have to specialize a certain char. The good thing about having 3 mages is that they can each specialize into something else. You can pick and choose which mage to bring along that suits the style of play you need to actively beat the baddies. Its a good thing.

[Lennard Testarossa]

The lore states there are a lot of spells, not that mages(much less all mages) know all schools or even master them. We dont know the lore average of known spells per mage.

 

The lore - at the very least - tells us that spells can create an incredible variety of different effects. It also tells us that regular warriors do not have any 'supernatural' abilities. This means that all their abilities (and their animations) should work within the confines of a person with a reasonable amount of strength using their body and weapon to hit or block things (disregarding specializations like Templar or Reaver here). So this means that the selection of potentially available active abilities should be far bigger for mages than for non-magic classes and that their animations should be far flashier.

[Super Drone]

The lore - at the very least - tells us that spells can create an incredible variety of different effects. It also tells us that regular warriors do not have any 'supernatural' abilities. This means that all their abilities (and their animations) should work within the confines of a person with a reasonable amount of strength using their body and weapon to hit or block things (disregarding specializations like Templar or Reaver here). So this means that the selection of potentially available active abilities should be far bigger for mages than for non-magic classes and that their animations should be far flashier.

 

Lore is a weak excuse for making imbalanced classes. They wrote the lore. They can disregard it.

 

Which it looks like they're doing.    

[Meltemph]

The lore - at the very least - tells us that spells can create an incredible variety of different effects. It also tells us that regular warriors do not have any 'supernatural' abilities. This means that all their abilities (and their animations) should work within the confines of a person with a reasonable amount of strength using their body and weapon to hit or block things (disregarding specializations like Templar or Reaver here). So this means that the selection of potentially available active abilities should be far bigger for mages than for non-magic classes and that their animations should be far flashier.

"regular warrior" is, well relative. Also, "regular warrior" in Thedas quite easily can mean something different from earth, seeing as you can even be a ravager in DA, same with tamplar and ect. I use Batman as an example, sure "normal" human, but human perfected with a large range of abilities and tools at his disposal. So I think maybe, you are looking at this purely from a "I'm a mage" vantage, specially where you guys were from my perspective, excessively focused on prior to this.