126 réponses à ce sujet

[VikingDream]

well i just wrote a post that took 30+ mins and hit post and it deleted itself lol.

 

Summing it up endings should reflect choices made and close off plots not carried over to new games, endings have been bad for a few games but the way the endings were handled has been different, Fallout 3 for example had the ending re works and it seams to go down better with fans then the extended cut of ME3's ending. 

 

Ending a trilogy with a last scene of a hero taking a breath offers zero closure (would have worked for part 1 or 2) a lot of fans would have been happy for Shep to die to stop the reapers and have all the choices made reflected in the ending. The whole theme of Mass effect seamed to be free choice/choices mattering and the ending that railroaded players in a A,B or C ending just didn't seam to reflect what Shep would do of the theme of the game. 

 

The Witcher which i'm replaying did this well for example the witch/villagers story line you had to choose between 2 grim actions, now while it really doesn't effect the ending it did get dealt with later in the game and both choices are once that Geralt could have made easily. 

 

Now I know endings wont please every one that's a given as some people don't want the story to end, but the ending of a 3 part saga should reflect the theme and choices made not just be given over to artistic licence.

 

I really hope DAI deals with any player choices and plots that aren't going to be carried over to DA4 hell the lead protagonist can die for all i care as long as there is a reason for it and it fits the story.  

[Shahadem]

Maybe this is a bad idea, but I'd like to point out that A) the Catalyst has eons, EONS, EONS of experience with the issue (I don't think some special snowflake human meathead is going to solve this issue), and B, he specifically says that in the past humans and synthetics have come to an accord, but the end result was conflict. There was no plot hole (as far as this point is concerned, and really for most of the plot hole arguments). But I digress.

 

There was a huge plot hole. Here it is:

 

 

This is also a direct contradiction from what Sovereign tells us about how the Reapers are infinite, gained sentience before organics, and their purpose is beyond our understanding.

 

But the bigger problem is, why would synthetics actually want to kill organics? A synthetic being can live the equivalent of thousands of organic lifetimes within a few days. It would very quickly do all the thinking that it would ever be capable of doing and have nothing left to continue living for. This is a problem that's brought up as part of a joke in Mass Effect 2 ("some seconds are harder than others") but completely forgotten about right after that moment.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Dunno about you guys but the choice between Synthesis and Destroy was one of the toughest decisions I ever had to make.

 

I ended up picking Destroy because I felt it was the right choice while bawling because I figured it meant losing my Shepard, EDI, and the Geth. It pulled at my heart strings like mad.

Then "An End Once And For All" kicked in and I melted into a hot emotional mess.

 

I did not expect a happy ending. Shepard turning out to be alive shocked me.

 

If that's not a good ending I don't know what is.

 

 

Granted I played a year after release (I didn't even know about the release problems as I was too busy playing other games) so I don't have a colored view of whatever mess the game was in before the EC and DLC. Honestly the current iteration is amazing and I suggest you play it again with an open mind.

 

It's not about it not being happy. It's about the mechanics of it being beyond moronic. When I finished the game, I spent the entirety of the supposedly sad and dramatic ending cinematic groaning loudly at the sheer mindboggling idiocy of the synthesis ending. The EC doesn't get rid of the synthesis ending, so it doesn't help the tiniest bit with improving the ending overall. Shepard doesn't die due to the overwhelming power of the reapers or the hopelessness of the situation. He dies due to arbitrary and nonsensical constraints placed on an otherwise seemingly all-powerful wish fulfillment device.

[xkg]

Best video gaming ending in the history of gaming imo.

And I've had gaming as a hobby for 23 years and counting.

 

Mask of the betrayer is great thou it is bit too philosophical heavy, as it's ending  is.

For me it would be siding with LaCroix in VtMB.

Don't read if you don't want spoliers:

 

Spoiler

The story was so great, and me chasing the whole game after the sarcophagus, and then got trolled just like that ...

haha that was something I have never felt before.

 

And Jack at the end laughing, and "talking" to Messerach, brilliant

 

[Medhia_Nox]

I really enjoyed ME 3... until the end, when I wondered why I had bothered playing the franchise at all.

 

I actually would have preferred the Reapers to do what they do to protect "Life" - not sentient life, but life.

 

The state of a sapient race is to diminish biodiversity down to its most usable components for that species.  Example:  Humans have diminished the natural biodiversity of the apple tree to suit them killing off over a hundred species of apple tree to suit their needs.

 

I'd have actually liked the Reapers to have been created by a sapient biological species that forced themselves into extinction... but not before creating the a synthetic race (or becoming a synthetic race) that protects life diversity in general without regard to whether or not a species can create reality TV.

 

This actually would have made the Reapers a sort of "Hero of Life Systems" against sapient species who are largely self-serving entities willing to destroy entire planets in their rise to self-engrandizment.  

 

I would have only allowed destruction or annihilation - 1)  The Reapers are destroyed and the sapient races are allowed to commit the sins the Reapers did in the first place.  2) The Reapers destroy sapient species in a "redo" protocol they run every ten thousand years or whatever to allow biodiversity a chance to continue.

 

Anyway - don't really cared who would have liked it - I think it would have been a more complex, harder to digest ending.that didn't paint the Reapers into an entirely evil light, but also presented you with a requirement for you to likely destroy them to save your own race.  

[rda]

well i just wrote a post that took 30+ mins and hit post and it deleted itself lol.
 
Summing it up endings should reflect choices made and close off plots not carried over to new games, endings have been bad for a few games but the way the endings were handled has been different, Fallout 3 for example had the ending re works and it seams to go down better with fans then the extended cut of ME3's ending. 
 
Ending a trilogy with a last scene of a hero taking a breath offers zero closure (would have worked for part 1 or 2) a lot of fans would have been happy for Shep to die to stop the reapers and have all the choices made reflected in the ending. The whole theme of Mass effect seamed to be free choice/choices mattering and the ending that railroaded players in a A,B or C ending just didn't seam to reflect what Shep would do of the theme of the game. 
 
The Witcher which i'm replaying did this well for example the witch/villagers story line you had to choose between 2 grim actions, now while it really doesn't effect the ending it did get dealt with later in the game and both choices are once that Geralt could have made easily. 
 
Now I know endings wont please every one that's a given as some people don't want the story to end, but the ending of a 3 part saga should reflect the theme and choices made not just be given over to artistic licence.
 
I really hope DAI deals with any player choices and plots that aren't going to be carried over to DA4 hell the lead protagonist can die for all i care as long as there is a reason for it and it fits the story.

One of the reasons the original end of Fallout 3 was so terrible was not because you died,but because the ending was so stupid depending on your choices in the game.

You could have a super mutant companion, immune to radiation, and he would stand by while you did all the stuff yourself and died. It made no blessed sense.

I have no problem with the sacrifice yourself ending, but it needs to be clear as to why you NEED to sacrifice yourself and there is no other option.

[N7KnightSabre]

I, like some have said in this thread earlier, loved ME3 until the ending.  And the old man with his grand kid at the end of the credits felt like a giant middle finger to me.

It was like the entire trilogy didn't matter.  No, actually, I would've preferred it if there was a picture of someone flipping me off after the ending because that would have made me realize it was really a joke.

[Annarl]

I have to say I am sceptical about that one. I still remember ME3 was said to have over 20 endings, and that all the choices in ME1-3 would affect the ending.

 

 

I have the same reaction.  

[phantomrachie]

Kinda surprised the end of Fable 3 hasn't been mentioned yet. 

 

Spoiler

Spending the entering game fighting your evil brother to become Queen & then being given a series of black & white decisions before a random 'thing' tries to kill everyone.

 

Unless you spend lot of time playing mini games to get gold, your only endings were, be a dick & everyone lives, or be nice & everyone dies.

 

And some of the dick moves are really, really evil.

 

[Ianamus]

It's beating a bog unicorn to say how much I abhor Mass Effect 3's ending.

 

Fortunately, considering Inquisition does not end when you finish the main storyline I'm not concerned this time around.

[Birdy]

I, like some have said in this thread earlier, loved ME3 until the ending.  And the old man with his grand kid at the end of the credits felt like a giant middle finger to me.

It was like the entire trilogy didn't matter.  No, actually, I would've preferred it if there was a picture of someone flipping me off after the ending because that would have made me realize it was really a joke.

Lol.  It's sad that Casey Hudson left, but if I remember correctly he was one of two people responsible for that shitty ending. **Kinda glad.

[Ieldra]

I really enjoyed ME 3... until the end, when I wondered why I had bothered playing the franchise at all.

 

I actually would have preferred the Reapers to do what they do to protect "Life" - not sentient life, but life.

 

The state of a sapient race is to diminish biodiversity down to its most usable components for that species.  Example:  Humans have diminished the natural biodiversity of the apple tree to suit them killing off over a hundred species of apple tree to suit their needs.

 

I'd have actually liked the Reapers to have been created by a sapient biological species that forced themselves into extinction... but not before creating the a synthetic race (or becoming a synthetic race) that protects life diversity in general without regard to whether or not a species can create reality TV.

 

This actually would have made the Reapers a sort of "Hero of Life Systems" against sapient species who are largely self-serving entities willing to destroy entire planets in their rise to self-engrandizment.  

 

I would have only allowed destruction or annihilation - 1)  The Reapers are destroyed and the sapient races are allowed to commit the sins the Reapers did in the first place.  2) The Reapers destroy sapient species in a "redo" protocol they run every ten thousand years or whatever to allow biodiversity a chance to continue.

 

Anyway - don't really cared who would have liked it - I think it would have been a more complex, harder to digest ending.that didn't paint the Reapers into an entirely evil light, but also presented you with a requirement for you to likely destroy them to save your own race.  

That would have been interesting indeed, though I'm rather sure it would be about as unpopular as the existing ending. Are you, perhaps, familiar with Karen Traviss' "Books of the Wess'har Wars"? They have a very similar theme, though nothing like the Reapers. 

[N7KnightSabre]

Lol.  It's sad that Casey Hudson left, but if I remember correctly he was one of two people responsible for that shitty ending. **Kinda glad.

 

I've heard that it was Casey and Mac Walters.  Casey is a big reason we have ME in the first place and I am grateful to him for that.  He just shouldn't have been in the writer's room and all the writers should have had a say in it.  But that is an old debate and I think Bioware learned from that.  

 

I don't think DA:I will have a bad ending.

[Birdy]

I've heard that it was Casey and Mac Walters.  Casey is a big reason we have ME in the first place and I am grateful to him for that.  He just shouldn't have been in the writer's room and all the writers should have had a say in it.  But that is an old debate and I think Bioware learned from that.  

 

I don't think DA:I will have a bad ending.

But you know someone is gonna complain about it.  XD

[Ibn_Shisha]

I wonder how different the reaction would be if ME3 had decided to give us the Till the End of Time ending instead of the Deus Ex ending...

 

Spoiler

Shepard arrives at the Catalyst, who tells him/her that the universe he/she knows is really just an MMO for his universe, but npc programs like Shepard and company started getting too uppity, so the Reapers are just an anti-virus suite he coded in to take care of the problem

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ieldra:  Thanks - I think the idea should be polarizing - because it calls to task our responsibility as a species which, it would seem, few people ever want to really consider... too much processed food and Breaking Bad to consume (I am equally as guilty in case there's a critique)

 

I am not familiar with the series - I'll have to look them up. 

 

As a note - that's an extremely truncated concept for the story I would have told (again, not saying it's a story people want to hear - but I feel like the template was actually already ingrained in the telling of the Reapers - but that the opportunity was not desired/taken).

 

I am absolutely in a personal camp that mankind is, quite possibly, the bipedal equivalent of a planetary malignancy.  There is nothing scientific about safeguarding our status as anything more than another lifeform.  Saying that we are somehow significant holds no true bearing except in the aspects in which we impact our biosphere - which is, at the point, negatively.  But, for anyone who disagrees - this isn't a place to debate this - it's just the vector by which I would deliver a very different story concerning the purpose of the Reapers. 

[Imported_beer]

I have just one criteria.

 

At the end, did it make you feel like it was worth all those hours you put into it? 

 

This is a highly subjective notion. However, I can think of some examples of endings that didn't work for me.

 

1. NWN2 OC: If you were evil, this was a great ending. If you were not, it was too obviously written for a sequel. I call this a "I went through all that to have THAT happen?" ending.

 

2. Planescape Torment: I know this is very highly regarded, but this was my biggest WTF ending to this day and I have been playing RPGs since Ultima. At the end- I felt, there had been no point to all I had done until then. Of course, this is subjective and some people saw some awesome destiny vs action zen thing going on, but I don't play RPGs to be told some kind of destiny>actions, so didn't work for me at all.

 

3. KOTOR 2: I still don't know what the ending is. If anyone does, let me know!

[Medhia_Nox]

@Imported_Beer:  Like Anders - I felt like the game strangely and unwelcomingly switched gears at the last second to an entirely different story.

 

The choices at the end actually felt like where the story should have started... not ending.

 

Okay... you've destroyed the Reapers and the universe is collapsing:  What do you do?

 

Okay... a terrorist demagogue just blew up a Chantry and ignited a war: What do you do?

I felt like... by the end of ME 3 that the entire franchise was an Origin story for ME 4... which is the game we should have just skipped to.  

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

I wonder how different the reaction would be if ME3 had decided to give us the Till the End of Time ending instead of the Deus Ex ending...

 

Spoiler

Shepard arrives at the Catalyst, who tells him/her that the universe he/she knows is really just an MMO for his universe, but npc programs like Shepard and company started getting too uppity, so the Reapers are just an anti-virus suite he coded in to take care of the problem

I'd actually be totally fine with this.  After all, Stealing Light pulled similar **** and it's one of my favourite SF books of all time.  

[N7KnightSabre]

But you know someone is gonna complain about it.  XD

 

Ah, but of course.  That is the way of the world. 

[Imported_beer]

@Imported_Beer:  Like Anders - I felt like the game strangely and unwelcomingly switched gears at the last second to an entirely different story.

 

Oh yes.

 

Personally, my only interaction with Anders had been extremely limited. My character was very creeped out by his glowing spirit eye thing, and that was it. I got the maps and our association ended. I didn't kick him out of the party, but I just never spoke to him after.

 

And then suddenly- you know what happens. Such a defining event of the game at the hands of someone who had such a small role to play in mine. But since I role-played a warrior who thought mages were going to so something bad because they are fragile, evil types; I could talk myself into it.

[Ibn_Shisha]

I'd actually be totally fine with this.  After all, Stealing Light pulled similar **** and it's one of my favourite SF books of all time.  

Not familiar with that.  I remember being one of many people raging about the tteot ending at the time.  There was the 'so our characters aren't even real, wtf' debate, as well as 'wait, if this is the case why didn't they do anything about the 10 Wise Men?' (IIRC, it was so controversial Enix actually did a damage control statement that tteot is a different continuity than the other Star Oceans.)

[MrMrPendragon]

I hope there's only ONE ending, with little variations. Like in Origns, no matter what you did, the Archdemon is dead by the end of the game. You can appoint kings and queens, and even kill important people, but the backbone of the epilogue is that the Archdemon is defeated. And in DA2, no matter who you sided with, Mage-Templars war is still going to happen. You didn't change the course of the war itself.

 

It would be hard to continue the story if there were multiple endings different from each other, because all those have the potential to be someone's canon.

 

AND the absolute most important aspect that I'm looking for is seeing the events after the ending, seeing all the consequences of my choices and the aftermath of the conflict. I absolutely hate it when I make a huge decision at the end, then I don't even get to see what my choice has done for the world that I'm "living" in. It's like ME3. I destroyed the Reapers - so what happens to me, my crew, and the rest of the world? It's common sense that they rebuilt but what else happened?

[Korvkioscar]

I think ME2 is the best Bioware-game I have ever played. It had everything. A fantastic story and a really good end. ME3 was disappointing because of the ending like many other also think. But I have a strong feeling this game is going to be the ME2 of Dragon Age. It's sad though. It feels like I know everything about the game so far. When ME2 was released I didn't even knew that Garrus was going to be in it. Still the best game ever so far. BUT anywho.. Since ME3:s ending was not that good it feels like they really thought of that in this game. I hope.