250 réponses à ce sujet

[Noviere]

I love her, but because I'm playing a mage who's romancing Dorian, I have to leave her behind on my first playthrough

[Ulathar]

Actually my thoughts when i see here are always "Damn... why can't this girl be romancable"

Yeah, same here. Although I think woman, not girl. ;-)

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah, same here. Although I think woman, not girl. ;-)

I think she would prefer being call a lady and she'd make sure you wouldn't forget it.  

 

I look forward to meeting her.  Also, with my PC I've picked (dwarf/rogue,) I don't have as much immediate stake the Mage vs Circle Loyalist vs Templar nonsense.  It help keep my options open with as few of my own prejudices as possible.

[Nattfare]

This man knows what's up.

 

Sounds like something is up for him at least.

[ENCHANTMENT]

I'm looking forward to having her in the group. She might be hilarious to make angry lol.

Then again I remember when I started DA 2 I had a notion as to what characters I'd like and dislike. Some of the ones I liked turned out to be so annoying.

I guess I will keep an open mind about everyone until I see how they react to my Inquisitor's first controversial action lol.

[Darth Death]

 

She's one of those characters you hope you can Sparta kick off the hold.... and then revive using necromancy just to do it again.

How dare you, you villain! With that said, I like the way you think. Carry on. 

[Neuromancer]

I wouldn't be surprised if some people hate her because she's black, a woman-of-color. Not only that, she's powerful, strong, has authority and influence, and doesn't look like she'll take any of their sh*t. Maybe they've never seen that many women-of-color characters in video games like that and it rubs them the wrong way because here's not another forgettable token character that they can dismiss or make submit to them.

And so they mask their racism behind the fact that she's "haughty" or whatever when what it might boil down to is that she makes them uncomfortable. And then they wish violence on a character they barely know, but of course, their reactions would be far less intense if it was some proud, condescending white man.

Just a theory.

Absolutely not.

And don't pull out the sex card either.

Now if I liked her because she was black that'd be racism too. On the other hand I find the personality and character untrustworthy, potentially backstabbing, dangerous, infernally irritating and coming across as if she has no loyalties.

Regardless of race, creed, sex, religion, etc I dislike people like that strongly.

So do not play the race card.

Bio ware instead created a very realistic character. It just so happens though that they made the impressions we've gotten so far so close to real life I do plan to throw her of thekeep.

Me bringing back the pompous and untrustworthy Vivienne by necromancy to just do it again is only the icing on the cake.

[Xilizhra]

You know, if a character has got a strong enough feeling to merit such a reaction even prior to the release date, then the DA team did what they wanted to  I think the worst thing for the writers is a character that the player feels almost nothing for.  According to David Gaider at GDC last year, Genn from NWN was such a character.  The only reason why I can even member Genn's name off of the top of my head is because I was talking about him with a poster yesterday.  

 

If you love Vivienne, Mary Kirby won.  If you hate Vivienne, Mary Kirby won.  

 

I know that writers in general don't always set out to make likeable characters.  I think they like interesting characters that the fans will either grow to love or hate.  I even conjecture that they find threads like this amusing.  You're talking about our lovely mage, and you're passionate in your negative feelings for her.  Hate's quite the strong word, after all.  

 

Seems to me Mary accomplished her goal with Vivienne.  

I think there's a line. When you cross the line from hating a character to hating Bioware for making them and wanting everything to do with it wiped off the map, that's a bad thing. It's exactly how I felt about All that Remains. I didn't cry; I was enraged about Bioware manipulating my emotions with plot idiocy and considered it complete artistic trash.

[pinkjellybeans]

I wouldn't be surprised if some people hate her because she's black, a woman-of-color. Not only that, she's powerful, strong, has authority and influence, and doesn't look like she'll take any of their sh*t. Maybe they've never seen that many women-of-color characters in video games like that and it rubs them the wrong way because here's not another forgettable token character that they can dismiss or make submit to them. 

 

And so they mask their racism behind the fact that she's "haughty" or whatever when what it might boil down to is that she makes them uncomfortable. And then they wish violence on a character they barely know, but of course, their reactions would be far less intense if it was some proud, condescending white man. 

 

Just a theory. 

 

For a moment there I thought I was on tumblr where everything is racism. I love michonne from the walking dead, she's my favorite character, so no, I'm not racist. Most people here who already dislike Vivienne have given valid reasons. Yes, we've only seen a few things about her but what we saw it's enough for some people. First impressions are always important and you can't blame people for that. I for one have more than one reason. She supports the circle, she thinks Cole should be banished, she's arrogant, she has her own agenda (because of it I probably won't trust her at all). I'm sure people will still recruit her and give her a chance, just like me, but we're allowed to not like characters and their personalities/opinions, are we not? Someone mentioned Morrigan being the same, but no, Morrigan was just a cruel, dark person (if you watch a playthrough on youtube of a warden who kills and insults everyone, morrigan is just over the moon with joy) she's not a snooty stuck up person like Vivienne seems to be, and I think that's what turns people off. But like I said, I'm allowed to dislike her but still give her a chance when I play the game. Hell, I didn't like half of the companions on DA2 but they were still in my party and I still did their quests. Hate is a strong word, but I can totally understand why people will say "no thanks" to her. While I also understand why most people will love her. It's a matter of opinions.

 

Also, like someone mentioned, there are numerous threads of people saying they want to kill Hawke and Cullen so people hating on characters is not new. But just because it's a black character the only valid reason is that we must be racists. Okie dokie.

[Gnoster]

As long as I can remove her amazingly stupid looking hat, I think I'll be able to learn to ignore her demeanor and way over proportioned lips; if not a sparta kick sounds good to me 

[Tevinter Rose]

The sassy black woman who doesn't need a man, for starters.

 

Frankly from what I've seen I believe I'll enjoy her, but there's still the fear that she'll be stereotypically written.

 

I'm a bit worried about that as well.

[Astrolabe]

Honestly, if you don't like her for non-racist reasons, then don't be defensive about what I said.

 

I said, "some people" and by "some people" I do not mean all people.

 

The people I'm talking about are the people who download mods to lighten Isabela's skin or the people who agree w/ whichever idiot thought Vivienne would be better as light-skinned or white. But obviously, they couldn't explicitly hate her for her skin color or else they'd be reported or whatever.

 

I don't think everybody in this thread is racist, probably a few, but not all. 

 

Racism is a big issue and it takes form in a lot of ways. I'm sorry my concern somehow makes you feel attacked when of course, your favorite character is a person of color and therefore you're not racist. 

[Itkovian]

So far I think I'll love Vivienne. Beautiful woman, beautiful name, awesome hat.

 

And since we seem to agree on politics, it should go well (not that I think mages are treated fairly, but rebelling like that was a bad idea... I particularly disagreed with their reaction in Asunder). Sad that we can't romance her, but then she'd probably fireball me at the first advance (who knows, that might actually happen in game, sort of how we can flirt with Aveline *grin*).

[Sylentmana]

How can anyone not like her. She's Maleficent, what's not to love?  If she doesn't call down all the powers of hell at least once, then I shall be sorely disappointed.

[xkg]

The people I'm talking about are the people who download mods to lighten Isabela's skin or the people who agree w/ whichever idiot thought Vivienne would be better as light-skinned or white. But obviously, they couldn't explicitly hate her for her skin color or else they'd be reported or whatever.

 

What does preferences have to do with racism ?

I am white, I prefer yellow skined women. If there was a mod available, for example, to make Cassandra yellow I would use it.

I don't feel like being racist against my own race.

[Astrolabe]

Nope - not going to touch that even if I had a hazmat suit. I've said my piece. If you want to learn more about your "preferences" and how they're racist, google it. 

[xkg]

Ok then. I am racist in your opinion. Happens.

 

Carry on then.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Vivienne is not sassy, and the fact that the word keeps getting associated with her is a bit racist and relies on the cultural "sassy black woman" stereotype. She's sharp and clever, and she's definitely not "lively, bold, cheeky, full of spirit." That sounds nothing like her and frankly sounds like a person she would look down upon, which is probably one of the reasons she doesn't get along with Sera because that is someone that "sassy" describes.

[New Kid]

Vivienne is not sassy, and the fact that the word keeps getting associated with her is a bit racist and relies on the cultural "sassy black woman" stereotype. She's sharp and clever, and she's definitely not "lively, bold, cheeky, full of spirit." That sounds nothing like her and frankly sounds like a person she would look down upon, which is probably one of the reasons she doesn't get along with Sera because that is someone that "sassy" describes.

I agree, I think some people are on alert for stereotypes these days.

[Barquiel]

I'm pretty sure that Vivienne is meant to be a very polarizing character (...and I wouldn't agree with her pro-circle views even if she were blue ).

[llawsford]

On the other hand I find the personality and character untrustworthy, potentially backstabbing, dangerous, infernally irritating and coming across as if she has no loyalties.

Basically this. It's kinda good to know that there might be possibility to throw companions out of the airlock... I mean - kick them out from Skyhold (by constantly having disagreemants with them for example). Just sayin'. Options are good.

[pinkjellybeans]

Honestly, if you don't like her for non-racist reasons, then don't be defensive about what I said.

(...)

 

The thing is, most, if not all of the people who commented on here (even the OP) gave valid reasons why they dislike her. I didn't see anyone talking about her skin color. I think her personality is enough to put some people off. For me it was more than that, like I said in my previous comment. So that's why I was "defensive" about it. Yes, racism is a problem but it's not always about racism.

[xkg]

Nope - not going to touch that even if I had a hazmat suit. I've said my piece. If you want to learn more about your "preferences" and how they're racist, google it.

 
Ok googled it.
 
Can't find any link betwen me prefering yellow skined women and racism.

Spoiler

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

 
niether here, since I don't think that all yellow skined pepole are superior

Spoiler

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

 
not this, obviously

Spoiler

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 
this doesn't fit eiither

Spoiler

: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

: the belief that some races of people are better than others

 
nope

Spoiler

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

 
not even in urban dictionary, since I don't prefer all yellow pepole as in "yellow race", just yellow skinned women

Spoiler

Noun.
1) Strict definition: An irrational bias towards members of a racial background. The bias can be positive (e.g. one race can prefer the company of its own race or even another) or it can be negative (e.g. one race can hate another). To qualify as racism, the bias must be irrational. That is, it cannot have a factual basis for preference.
2) Commonly intended definition(in America): A bias that white people have against blacks.
3) Politically motivated definition: A justifiable reason to redistribute resources or opportunities between groups on the basis of race alone.

 
 
Hah, apparently I am not racist.

[KaiserShep]

How can anyone not like her. She's Maleficent, what's not to love?  If she doesn't call down all the powers of hell at least once, then I shall be sorely disappointed.

 

Maybe they should hustle as hard as they hate.

[Adanu]

You're not the only one who hates her already. Thus far, she sounds like a chantry apologist/loyalist.