250 réponses à ce sujet

[Astrolabe]

The thing is, most, if not all of the people who commented on here gave valid reasons why they dislike her. I didn't see anyone talking about her skin color. I think her personality is enough to put some people off. For me it was more than that, like I said in my previous comment. So that's why I was "defensive" about it. Yes, racism is a problem but it's not always about racism.

 

Do you think anybody would be dumb enough to talk about her skin? And out themselves as actually being racist? And face the backlash? That's part of my point as to why people would find other ways to justify why they don't like her, but the actual motivation behind those negative emotions is because of her race. 

I'm still not convinced people's reasons are "valid" when it's just based on assumptions since she's one of the few companions who has gotten the least information revealed about her. 

The strong point about Bioware characters is that they are ALWAYS deeper than they appear, but people are jumping to write her off based on "feelings" that they have. 

[New Kid]

Do you think anybody would be dumb enough to talk about her skin? And out themselves as actually being racist? And face the backlash? That's part of my point as to why people would find other ways to justify why they don't like her, but the actual motivation behind those negative emotions is because of her race. 

I'm still not convinced people's reasons are "valid" when it's just based on assumptions since she's one of the few companions who has gotten the least information revealed about her. 

The strong point about Bioware characters is that they are ALWAYS deeper than they appear, but people are jumping to write her off based on "feelings" that they have. 

Not trying to argue here, but you sound a little paranoid. Can people's reasons not just be genuine?

[Roninbarista]

I love that Vivienne has raised above her station, as a mage/court jester to a powerful role of court advisor and first enchanter.  It reminds me of when the Warden and Hawke traveled similar paths to be better than who they were. It's quite inspiring and interesting.

 

I don't know if, game-wise my Inquisitor will 100% will agree with her on all her views, but damn. I'm happy to see what works, and what doesn't. 

[Astrolabe]

Not trying to argue here, but you sound a little paranoid. Can people's reason not just be genuine?

They can be. And that's fine and legitimate. But paranoia would be when I don't have precedence on which to rely. 

 

When Vivienne was first revealed, somebody altered her picture so that she was white. There are actually racist people who play Dragon Age. It's not something Bioware can screen out or prevent. I didn't say everybody who dislikes Vivienne is racist. I'm saying some are - and the more violent, volatile, or intense that dislike or hatred is, the more it doesn't make sense to me since people know so little about her.

 

Edit: 67,500 people downloaded a mod to make Isabela "fair-skinned" (read - white) because that's "sexier."

[boissiere]

Honestly, there is only one thing I disliked about Vivienne, it is the fact that she is not a darf that you can romance because she is a mage...

[xkg]

Edit: 67,500 people downloaded a mod to make Isabela "fair-skinned" (read - white) because that's "sexier."

 

Bioware made Isabella skin darker in DA2. So, Your point is?

 

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[New Kid]

They can be. And that's fine and legitimate. But paranoia would be when I don't have precedence on which to rely. 

 

When Vivienne was first revealed, somebody altered her picture so that she was white. There are actually racist people who play Dragon Age. It's not something Bioware can screen out or prevent. I didn't say everybody who dislikes Vivienne is racist. I'm saying some are - and the more violent, volatile, or intense that dislike or hatred is, the more it doesn't make sense to me since people know so little about her.

 

Edit: 67,500 people downloaded a mod to make Isabela "fair-skinned" (read - white) because that's "sexier."

I didn't see that poster, who made it?

I'm a bit of a grampa when it comes to mods, so I can't really comment on that (I've only really used dialogue patches and romance enhancers).
I suppose it is a little odd that people would want to change her skin, but it isn't inherently racist, is it?

The way I see it, yes there will be racists playing it, but unless they campaign for an ethnic cleansing of Thedas, then I can't see what problems they will cause. I also have re-read this thread and have found no racist comments.

[Scerene]

 
Ok googled it.
 
Can't find any link betwen me prefering yellow skined women and racism.

Spoiler

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

 
niether here, since I don't think that all yellow skined pepole are superior

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the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

 
not this, obviously

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prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 
this doesn't fit eiither

Spoiler

: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

: the belief that some races of people are better than others

 
nope

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1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

 
not even in urban dictionary, since I don't prefer all yellow pepole as in "yellow race", just yellow skinned women

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Noun.
1) Strict definition: An irrational bias towards members of a racial background. The bias can be positive (e.g. one race can prefer the company of its own race or even another) or it can be negative (e.g. one race can hate another). To qualify as racism, the bias must be irrational. That is, it cannot have a factual basis for preference.
2) Commonly intended definition(in America): A bias that white people have against blacks.
3) Politically motivated definition: A justifiable reason to redistribute resources or opportunities between groups on the basis of race alone.

 
 
Hah, apparently I am not racist.

i think s/he meant you fetishize asian women, or something like that.

i like her, she reminds me of me in real life, except i would never wear that hideous hat.

[pinkjellybeans]

(...)

I'm still not convinced people's reasons are "valid" when it's just based on assumptions since she's one of the few companions who has gotten the least information revealed about her. 

(...)

 

 

Well if you want to go down that route, we don't know anything about the other companions and there are people who already dislike Cole, Sera, Iron Bull, etc. It's just the way it is. People are all about first impressions, sure they might be surprised later, but right now we were given enough footage to know what Vivienne's personality is going to be like and some of her views (like that conversation about the rebel mages). Maybe you don't see those reasons as valid because people have different opinions, so you just don't agree with them. It's fine, but don't pull the racism card just because you don't agree. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

referring to asian's as "yellow" skinned does sound pretty racist to me.

[Cespar]

I didn't see that poster, who made it?

I'm a bit of a grampa when it comes to mods, so I can't really comment on that (I've only really used dialogue patches and romance enhancers).
I suppose it is a little odd that people would want to change her skin, but it isn't inherently racist, is it?

The way I see it, yes there will be racists playing it, but unless they campaign for an ethnic cleansing of Thedas, then I can't see what problems they will cause. I also have re-read this thread and have found no racist comments.

I don't think Astrolabe means there are racist comments, but people that actually wants to kill Vivienne, since we don't know much about her. The killing Hawke and Cullen make "sense" since we know them from previous games.

[Scerene]

Do you think anybody would be dumb enough to talk about her skin? And out themselves as actually being racist? And face the backlash? That's part of my point as to why people would find other ways to justify why they don't like her, but the actual motivation behind those negative emotions is because of her race. 

I'm still not convinced people's reasons are "valid" when it's just based on assumptions since she's one of the few companions who has gotten the least information revealed about her. 

The strong point about Bioware characters is that they are ALWAYS deeper than they appear, but people are jumping to write her off based on "feelings" that they have. 

you are such a drama queen. I really dislike the iron bull, because he is ugly and his voice actor is terrible. Someone made a thread about wanting to kill him for his pin head and bad voice acting. people mention wanting to kill Cullen in just about every topic even remotely related to him and even those that arent.

[General TSAR]

Yeah? Well I hate Dorian and Cole but we're going to have to put up with them until the opportune moment arrives. 

[xkg]

referring to asian's as "yellow" skinned does sound pretty racist to me.

 

But obviously not all asians are yellow skinned. So how should I say it to not sound racist ?

[Savvie]

I have to disagree. I was unsure about Vivienne, but after watching her companion intro vid, I am even more intrigued about what she will be like.

[Mathias]

Vivienne has the type of personality I don't get along with in real life.

 

Vivienne gives me an Emma Frost vibe. She's arrogant, competent, ambitious, and feels superior to most people. Some people will love that kind of character, some people won't. 

I can't imagine why they would.

[Astrolabe]

Okay, this is the last thing I'm going to say.

 

Why are people so adamantly trying to delegitimize my claim that there might actually be some racist people who dislike Vivienne because she's black? Is it fundamentally untrue? Do you believe there is nobody who dislikes her because of her race? 

 

If my claim does not apply to you, then ignore it! It is untrue when applied to you - fine. People reacting so strongly to me saying "some people" is bizarre! I haven't named anybody explicitly.

 

If you feel defensive about me making a claim that is not about you, re-evaluate why it makes you uncomfortable that you feel the need to clarify/defend so strongly. 

[BroBear Berbil]

 

Edit: 67,500 people downloaded a mod to make Isabela "fair-skinned" (read - white) because that's "sexier."

 

For many people it is sexier, and I think that's just fine. I don't generally find dark skin to be attractive. There are many who do. Everybody is allowed their preference.

[Kel Eligor]

I love her.

 

In fact, she strikes me as the single most interesting companion so far. One would think a mage with a strong personality such as herself would be all for the liberation movement, yet instead she firmly defends the need for a Circle. She is refined, powerful and a shrewd figure in Orlesian politics. Everything about her - at least to me - is immensely compelling. 

 

I also dig the Maleficent inspiration of her look. 

[xkg]

Why are people so adamantly trying to delegitimize my claim that there might actually be some racist people who dislike Vivienne because she's black? Is it fundamentally untrue? Do you believe there is nobody who dislikes her because of her race? 

 

Yes I want to delegitimize those two claims fo yours

 

That people who downlaod skin color altering mods are racists

 

The people I'm talking about are the people who download mods to lighten Isabela's skin or the people who agree w/ whichever idiot thought Vivienne would be better as light-skinned or white. But obviously, they couldn't explicitly hate her for her skin color or else they'd be reported or whatever.

 

And that I am racist, because of my preferences

 

If you want to learn more about your "preferences" and how they're racist, google it. 

 

I did as you said. There is nothing I could find. Your claim is not even remotely legitimate.

[pinkjellybeans]

Okay, this is the last thing I'm going to say.

 

Why are people so adamantly trying to delegitimize my claim that there might actually be some racist people who dislike Vivienne because she's black? Is it fundamentally untrue? Do you believe there is nobody who dislikes her because of her race? 

 

If my claim does not apply to you, then ignore it! It is untrue when applied to you - fine. People reacting so strongly to me saying "some people" is bizarre! I haven't named anybody explicitly.

 

If you feel defensive about me making a claim that is not about you, re-evaluate why it makes you uncomfortable that you feel the need to clarify/defend so strongly. 

 

It makes me uncomfortable because YOU brought that up on a thread where no one showed to be racist. Yes, of course, there are people who play dragon age that are racist, but they aren't causing a problem on this thread, are they? People here are stating reasons why they dislike Vivienne, and from the footage we've seen they are valid reasons, and you said "...people would find other ways to justify why they don't like her, but the actual motivation behind those negative emotions is because of her race." so you're obviously implying that some of us are just coming up with excuses to hate her because we're racists. And yes, you said "some people" and didn't name anyone specifically and that's why your accusation could be directed at anyone who dislikes Vivienne, it could be directed at me for all I know, so yes, I feel the need to defend myself. But yeah, let's just drop this and accept the fact that we have different opinions about her and that's it.

[Vanth]

Although I haven't seen enough of her to say should would be my favourite character or anything, she is much better than many of the others. I would much rather have Vivienne (as she appears in what little I have seen) than the whiney natures of Alistair or Anders.

 

I think I agree with Astrolabe that people are just being unconsciously racist. 

[sylvanaerie]

Bioware made Isabella skin darker in DA2. So, Your point is?

 

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That's the effect of the lighting in the Pearl.  If you look at her morph in the Toolset you can see her skin is dark.