203 réponses à ce sujet

[The Devlish Redhead]

I was being sarcastic.

ah my mistake. Sorry

[Eternal Phoenix]

I just want to see one proof, however small that the universe is finite.

 
Big Bang theory or don't you believe in that?
 
The universe is expanding so it came from somewhere. All theories and evidence suggest it had a beginning too.
 
If the universe is infinite then it's always been here and no evidence supports that.

 

There's also the Borde Guth Vilenkin theorem that supports the finite universe.
 

 

http://now.tufts.edu...g-was-beginning

[Dermain]

"Don't care what they say, or what games they play, nothing is enough, til I have your love, LET'S DO IT TONIGHT, I want you tonight, I want you to stay, I want you tonight, GRAB SOMEBODY SEXY, TELL THEM HEY, GIVE ME EVERYTHING TONIGHT..."

 

Why do I have the feeling that the scientists in question have adopted the philosophy below?
 

 
It seems to me that they are making speculation based on poor research. First we have Brian Co*k saying "no aliens exist because I'm God and I know all there is to know, do not question me!!11" and now we have these scientists making similar statements.
 
I'll quote Einstein on this matter, "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects."
 
Yet we have some scientists making absolute statements when we're still children to the universe (and always will be). We haven't even ventured past our solar system and yet we have some scientists telling us where the universe ends and that there's no life elsewhere. No scientist even understands the origin of life yet to be making these claims either.
 
When it comes to scientific claims, empirical evidence is required and this lacks that. The reason no alien species have visited us could be because of the vast distance required just to reach the next solar system. According to estimates, it will take The Voyager spacecraft 80,000 years just to reach the next solar system and it's travelling at 37,000 miles per hour. We have no reason to believe light speed travel or FTL travel is possible (current knowledge says it's impossible) and if this is true then other civilizations will have spacecraft that will take tens of thousands of years just to reach the nearest star to their's.

 

Not necessarily. If they use the Earth as the evidence then generalize what happens on Earth to other planets it's entirely possible that their theory is correct.

 

It also gives a possible explanation for the lack of alien life, but it does not say "THIS IS THE ONLY REASON WHY". What it does say is "If astronomers ever do discover life on another planet, then, it is unlikely to be much older than life on Earth itself".

 

I emphasized the key phrase there. It isn't an absolute. 

 

 

The universe is finite?

 

How so? Have you found the edge of the universe? No one has.

 

Oh and why can't a life form exist using other methods that are not carbon based?

 

It's related to the Big Bang Theory if I remember correctly from my one Astronomy class.

[OdanUrr]

Big Bang theory or don't you believe in that?

 

The universe is expanding so it came from somewhere. All theories and evidence suggest it had a beginning too.

 

If the universe is infinite then it's always been here and no evidence supports that.

 

You're talking about infinity in time then not space.

[Dermain]

 
Big Bang theory or don't you believe in that?
 
The universe is expanding so it came from somewhere. All theories and evidence suggest it had a beginning too.
 
If the universe is infinite then it's always been here and no evidence supports that.
 

 

http://now.tufts.edu...g-was-beginning

 

If I recall correctly, the universe is expanding in the sense that galaxies are moving away from each other.

 

By saying that the universe is finite it means that everything in the universe already exists (in one form or the other) because of the big bang, and that it's not being constantly formed.

 

It can also be said that the Big Bang was the event that caused all of the galaxies to be moving away from each other.

 

Edit: No idea on the videos since those were added when after I quoted. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

You're talking about infinity in time then not space.

 

Big Bang theory says space and matter originated with The Big Bang just as time did so I'm talking about all.

[OdanUrr]

Big Bang theory says space and matter originated with The Big Bang just as time did so I'm talking about all.

 

On that note...

 

Is the Universe finite or infinite? An Interview with Joseph Silk

[Obadiah]

So... it's certainly not an absolute claim, and it is speculation.

Did no one read the article?

[Fast Jimmy]

You're talking about infinity in time then not space.

You can't separate the two. If something goes on for an infinite amount of space, it HAS to have existed for an infinite period of time. Otherwise, it had a beginning Origin point, which means it must be expanding from a single source and, therefore, finite.

[Sigma Tauri]

So... it's certainly not an absolute claim, and it is speculation.

Did no one read the article?

 

Most of the science behind the likelihood of intelligent life is just speculation, considering that we've not encountered another.

[Sion1138]

 
If the universe is infinite then it's always been here and no evidence supports that.

 

 

What do you mean by "always"?

 

If always means at all times, then it certainly has always been.

 

There is no time until there is a universe. And if there is no time then no reference to it can be made with regards to the "beginning" of the universe. A beginning requires time, that is, it requires a point in time both before and after.

 

There is no point in time before the beginning.

 

The beginning is not the beginning.

[OdanUrr]

You can't separate the two. If something goes on for an infinite amount of space, it HAS to have existed for an infinite period of time. Otherwise, it had a beginning Origin point, which means it must be expanding from a single source and, therefore, finite.

 

If you can't separate the two and time had a beginning (Big Bang), wouldn't that mean the universe is finite? Something that has yet to be proven afaik.

[Fast Jimmy]

If you can't separate the two and time had a beginning (Big Bang), wouldn't that mean the universe is finite? Something that has yet to be proven afaik.

Well, the second law of thermodynamics more or less implies it. All detectable matter in the universe is expanding, implying there was a common point (or points) of origin. The energy expended by such expansion will run out - which means the matter, too, will cease to exist, making infinte space inherently paradoxal.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Any intelligent space-faring species with below light speed travel wouldn't even attempt a journey to the nearest star to their own considering they should know the estimate journey time. By the time they reach the next star, entire family generations would have passed, the species would have evolved for God's sake and what reason would they have to make such a journey unless their star is dying? We're near the youngest part of the solar system, any homeless alien species searching for a new solar system is nowhere near us seeing as the stars surrounding us are relatively young still. No alien species in our surrounding solar systems have a reason to attempt a journey to another star, let alone ours.

I don't know about that. It would be extremely rare for sure but it could certainly happen regardless of the estimated journey time. Yes entire generations would live and die and never live without ever setting foot on a habitable planet but that in theory could be planned for. The species would have evolved? Meaning what? The people back on the planet they left are half an inch taller or something? Meaningless.

As for reasons, they don't necessarily have to make complete sense. Crazy ruler decides his people should find somewhere better to live away from those other scrubs and launches these colony ships into space after initiating global thermonuclear war or something.

Of course the chance of a bunch of alien exiles showing up at earth is astronomically low, and considering the speeds we're talking about we'd (hopefully) spot in well in advance and (hopefully) be ready to kick their ass. Thus would begin a great war filled with glorious battles, betrayals, filthy alien sympathizers being gunned down for their crimes, a heroic resistance reliving the events of Red Dawn (but against the xeno enemy) somewhere out in the US Midwest, chemical and biological weapons of unknown horror, crazy cults, the three robot kings and their rings of power who lead the machine uprising, the great nuclear wasteland and the seemingly endless mutant armies which pour forth from those gates of hell. And in the end humanity will die among the ashes, or rise anew to advance into the stars. And then and only then will Half Life 3 be released.

[Fast Jimmy]

This all assumes that other alien life forms have death has part of their natural biology. Or that they haven't overcome it entirely through technology.

Our limited view of "life" I'm sure is like a bacteria's concept of "big." Not only unaware, but wholly incapable of even processing, let alone comprehending, the nature of such a word.

[Dermain]

I guess Earth got hit with one of these awhile back then?

 

Of course, there's also the fear that it may be hit again which would wipe us all out.

[Obadiah]

One of the past unexplained mass extinction events (forget which) may have been caused by a gamma ray burst. I think it is still unexplained though.

[Fast Jimmy]

One of the past unexplained mass extinction events (forget which) may have been caused by a gamma ray burst. I think it is still unexplained though.

Likely it hit, turned something into the Hulk, Hulk killed everyone, widespread extinction. That's science.

Personally, I'm more concerned wih calderas that space radiation. But that's just me.

[Sion1138]

You can't separate the two. If something goes on for an infinite amount of space, it HAS to have existed for an infinite period of time. Otherwise, it had a beginning Origin point, which means it must be expanding from a single source and, therefore, finite.

 

The something may "precede" time, as in something -> time.

 

In that case, it has indeed existed for an infinite period of time, without having existed for an infinite period of time.

[Sion1138]

If you can't separate the two and time had a beginning (Big Bang), wouldn't that mean the universe is finite? Something that has yet to be proven afaik.

 

It's still infinite only not with regards to time. It is theoretically not infinite at present, but since you can not ever, under any circumstance reach the hypothetical limit, it is practically or in real terms infinite.

 

It's expanding faster than anything can go, hence nothing ever reaches the limit. But everything keeps expanding resulting in infinite size potential. And there is nothing and there can be nothing that could possibly stop this potential from being realized, except time.

 

So the thing may not be infinite to time, but it most certainly is infinite to you and your dog.

[Fast Jimmy]

The something may "precede" time, as in something -> time.

In that case, it has indeed existed for an infinite period of time, without having existed for an infinite period of time.

Matter and/or energy can't exist outside time. Time is simply a construct for tracking the position, velocity and state of energy and matter - it's not like we can track the levels or presence of time. If something exists, then time existed. If something didn't exist, then time is not relevant.

If matter has existed infinitely, then so has time. However, our (granted, very incomplete) view of the universe suggests matter and energy are not infinte. Ergo, time would similarly not be infinite.


Still, it is finite to a level beyond human comprehension, which we cannot conceive nor have any known method of exploring or experiencing. So while the odds of alien life being out there surviving, the chances of it being close enough to us for a swing by could be quite remote.

[Fast Jimmy]

It's still infinite only not with regards to time. It is theoretically not infinite at present, but since you can not ever, under any circumstance reach the hypothetical limit, it is practically or in real terms infinite.

It's expanding faster than anything can go, hence nothing ever reaches the limit. But everything keeps expanding resulting in infinite size potential. And there is nothing and there can be nothing that could possibly stop this potential from being realized, except time.

So the thing may not be infinite to time, but it most certainly is infinite to you and your dog.

The universe is infinite to your mom!

[naughty99]

 Intelligent life may only be possible on the outer edge of a galaxy where life has a chance to evolve long enough without being wiped out by a gamma burst every billion years.

 

 

*starts prepping expedition to search for billion year-old Prothean ruins*