253 réponses à ce sujet

[Paul E Dangerously]

As for combat I am rather confused do people not understand the time forward button on the tactical camera? If you want more tactical combat you stay IN that camera mode for the battle you don't enter it give one set of orders then jump into twitch combat and expect a tactical experience. Stay in tactical camera mode press the time forward button, watch your orders being exceuted, pause, issue a new set of orders, rinse and repeat. That is how people who WANT a more tactical game get it.

 

Yeah, that sounds much more intuitive than the old method.

 

Wait, no, no it doesn't.

[Meltemph]

"Doing something" and "being present for one of the most chaotic and unprescedented things in the history of an entire fictional universe" are not equivalent.

Having a dwarf commoner learn about Dwarven castes and the criminal nature of the Casteless by shaking down some poor people and getting caught up in deception in the Proving Grounds teaches a lot by showing.

Having the story start with demons pouring out of the sky, demonstrating a fracturing of the divide between two realities not seen in the entirety of the world, right in the middle of a peace conference between Mage and Templars that stems from bucking against a system that has stood for millenia and staging it in a city that has racial tensions that are coming to the biggest head since the last race war against the empire hundreds of years ago is all a lot to swallow in the first five minutes.

I actually like that. I like being thrown into the crazy in movies or books, before even understanding what is going on. Makes you have to pay attention to everything. It's all about taste, but I enjoy not knowing everything that is going on, or why this fight I'm watching is a big deal, only to figure out later...oh, ya that was kinda huge deal. 

[StillBornVillain]

In previous Dragon Age games you would assign orders and then let it play out, according to these guys it doesn't work like that anymore in this game. DA:I is allegedly designed around selecting a character and then swiping away in 3rd person mode, while only occasionally entering tactical mode to issue orders for teammates.

 

BTW, you should probably play the game before you claim as a fact that tactical mode has vastly improved. 
 

You killed bears and bandits in Lothering for maybe 30 minutes in DA:O, not six hours. These guys played DA:I for six hours and said that they ran into numerous fetch quests during this time.

 

 

Watch a Video dlux before you start slinging non-sense.

 

The Tactical Mode HAS Vastly Improved. but it doesnt work the same as it did in Dragon Age Origins.

 

The two guys reviewing the game from PC Gamer are either brain-dead, or just plain oblivious to well.... everything.

 

Its hard to understand how the two guys missed how to use TacCam entirely, since when you open the TacCam a Legend at the bottom of the screen tells you all the buttons to use while in this mode.  but I digress.

 

Allow me to explain the Tactical Camera.

 

 

In Dragon Age: Inquisition you have two modes of Play. 3rd Person active combat, or Full Camera Control Tactical View.

 

While 3rd Person Active Combat is rather self-explanitory TacCam is apparently not..../facepalm

 

Full Camera Control Tactical View is like how it sounds. full pan and zoom controls while in TacCam, you can;

1. Issue Orders Ranging from;

 -Attack Target

 -Move to Location

 -Hold Position

 -Use Item

 -Use Ability

 

However it is worthy to note if you have the Companion AI tured on, after giving a command to your allies; your command will be executed, but soon after the AI will take over and do what it pleases.

 

Now if you have the AI turned off and you wish to live out Combat in the TacCam, there is a button to allow live action to resume, and at anytime you wish to pause combat and issue new orders you simple release the button.  Its that simple.

 

So again before you start slinging Nonsense, dlux please check yourself.

[Lebanese Dude]

Yeah, that sounds much more intuitive than the old method.

 

Wait, no, no it doesn't.

 

The old method was intuitive?

[XMissWooX]

It's funny how I interpreted it as Shepard being helpful to those in need, rather than a stalker
 
Also thanks for the laugh (rest of the post). I needed it

I didn't mean it seriously, I've just yet to come up with a more amusing explanation for it.

[Lebanese Dude]

I didn't mean it seriously, I've just yet to come up with a more amusing explanation for it.

 

Hmm..how about uninvited busybody?

[XMissWooX]

Hmm..how about uninvited busybody?

Shepard spends his/her off-hours channeling Jessica Fletcher.

New headcanon.

[Itkovian]

In previous Dragon Age games you would assign orders and then let it play out, according to these guys it doesn't work like that anymore in this game. DA:I is allegedly designed around selecting a character and then swiping away in 3rd person mode, while only occasionally entering tactical mode to issue orders for teammates.

 

BTW, you should probably play the game before you claim as a fact that tactical mode has vastly improved. 
 

You killed bears and bandits in Lothering for maybe 30 minutes in DA:O, not six hours. These guys played DA:I for six hours and said that they ran into numerous fetch quests during this time.

 

Why should I play the game? There's been ample gameplay vids out there that CLEARLY show you can play the game in Tactical Camera mode (as in, they actually did it), a mode which we KNOW features autoattack, and has none of the "issues" these particular previewers mention.

 

Furthermore, we also know for a fact that the Tactical Camera mode is improved over DAO: it has full camera control (so you're not locked in quasi-isometric view), displays enemy stats and effects, shows movement paths, AND is now available on the consoles. These are all, objectively speaking, clear improvements above and beyond what we had in DAO.

 

And yes, it's true that they were several (not 6, however) hours in the open world of the Hinterland, and saw numerous fetch quests, but the fact remains that they were still just in the exploration aspects. That doesn't tell us, or them, just how good the story quests are, because their preview stopped the moment they tried to progress the story.

 

It does tell us, however, that the exploration aspect of the game consists of light quests, some of which are fetch quest. But that's hardly new to anyone who plays open world games. I was using Lothering as comparison because, well, there's nothing else that compares: DAI's exploration aspect is new to Dragon Age (not doubt why the preview focused a lot on it). But the existence of fetch quests doesn't mean the quest design is bad, it's pretty standard for open world exploration, and the previewers were not allowed to progress the story anyway, so cannot render a proper judgement of the quest design in general.

 

That said, we do know there's more than fetch quests in DAI's exploration areas, as indicated by many other previews.

[Itkovian]

Uh, the point is that you will (and frankly deserve to) get lost if you start any series at the third installment with no prior knowledge, unless a convenient plot summary is written out (like Tolkien did in LOTR). That's just how it friggin works. And fortunately, Inquisition offers a rare example of a video game giving you a plot summary in the form of the Keep.

 

Also, and let's remember it people, we haven't seen the entire intro. Joe made a point of skipping all the cutscenes, of which there were several. What tells us that there wasn't any explanation as to the Inquisition, the Mage-Templar war, the peace summit, etc? If not immediately at the intro, then at Haven which seems to be a moment of calm after the storm? Let's at least play through the entire prologue before declaring it newbie-unfriendly, especially when the only sample we had is that of someone who purposefully skipped the cutscenes.

 

EDIT: also, The Witcher 2 added the tutorial months after release, because many people said the early game was kinda confusing and incredibly difficult. So that's not what I would call a good example.

 

Aye, looking at the AJ video, it does seem there's plenty of storytelling going on in the first hour, explaining what happened. The fact that none of the previewers had this complaint points at an issue with the previewer, rather than the lack of explanation.

 

Mind you, I personally love it when games tell you nothing and slowly reveal information as the game proceeds (KOTOR2 was a great example, where the backstory was slowly trickled to the player throughout the gameplay).

 

As for TW2, that's correct. The game was seriously panned (and unfairly so, IMO) for its lack of tutorial and background. It was only with the 2.0 and console release that the (really nice) tutorial was added.  Heck, I remember fighting that big fight in the cloisters at least a dozen time to ensure I had mastered the combat (I had won it beforehand, but it was so challenging that I kept doing it over and over so I could be sure I wasn't just being lucky). It was still an excellent game, after all.

[Fast Jimmy]

I actually like that. I like being thrown into the crazy in movies or books, before even understanding what is going on. Makes you have to pay attention to everything. It's all about taste, but I enjoy not knowing everything that is going on, or why this fight I'm watching is a big deal, only to figure out later...oh, ya that was kinda huge deal.

Agreed, but I'm sure you'd understand it if people criticized that style, saying it was difficult for a reader to get their footing.

My critique was directed at those who said the fact that he reviewers even mentioned it as a Con in their review was ludicrous. It's not - it may be enjoyable to some, irrelevant for others, but it's a valid criticism if people new to the series may commonly express it as something they don't like.

[DanAxe]

I'm sorry, but to tackle your points about the intro not being newbie friendly and the reviewers "not knowing how to play the game..." Those are legitimate complaints. If someone new to the series is expected to do research, watch videos and read DA Wiki articles just to be able to feel comfortable picking up your game, then that's bad design.

And you know who the people MOST qualified to make that assessment? I'll give you a hint - it's not the people who have stalked the development for the last four years, played previous games multiple times and own every novel Gaider or Weekes ever put out.

So anyone saying that the reviewes "don't know what they're talking about" when they say the interface is unintuitive and the story starts out without much to help out new players... guess what? That's the point - people who don't know what to expect when they pick up a game are the exact players you need to design a smart UI for with teaching tutorials and to slow walk the character into the narrative instead of throwing them into the thick of international politics and metaphysics.

 

 

While i understand your point of view, i dont think its that simple. Inquisition is the 3rd instalment in the Dragon Age series. Everytime some game comes out with a lot of hype and peaks my interest, if its not the first game (if its a sequel, or a prequel, or within an universe that has been used before), I will always at least read something about what has come before. Im not saying people cant or shouldnt be able to enjoy a 3rd game in a franchise even if they didnt play the previous games, but if there are previous games, people should at least look into it if they dont want to feel "lost" within the lore. Inquisition is NOT a stand-alone game. Its the 3rd, and even if you have no interest in playing previous games, reading novels or comics, you should at least take a look at the games Wiki so you dont go blind into it.

 

I never finished Witcher 1 and 2, but ill probably play the 3rd game, but before i do that, im gonna do some "research" into their lore so that i can enjoy the game with some sense of - oh i heard of that character, oh that group of people was mentioned in the wiki, so there's a reason they are here doing this specific thing.

 

And this is how imho any person should go about a game thats a 2nd or 3rd in a franchise and never played it before. Its not mandatory ofc but it will help them feel better and less lost about the lore in the game. And if we are talking about reviewers, than hell yes, i expect them to do some research into the franchise before they play the game, they are paid professionals, they better act like it.

 

(oh and kudos for the mass effect side quests comic strip, i laughed really hard at that )

[Travie]

I really hope the 'forward' button in the tac cam is on a toggle. It sounds horrible to have to hold a button the entire time you're in that mode. 

[theflyingzamboni]

Am I the only one who liked the "stalker" method of delivering quests? It just made so much more sense to me than people unburdening themselves on a random stranger. "Hey, you've got a face! I trust you to handle a sensitive matter for me! I need you to go tickle my archrival."

[Meltemph]

Watch a Video dlux before you start slinging non-sense.

 

The Tactical Mode HAS Vastly Improved. but it doesnt work the same as it did in Dragon Age Origins.

 

The two guys reviewing the game from PC Gamer are either brain-dead, or just plain oblivious to well.... everything.

 

Its hard to understand how the two guys missed how to use TacCam entirely, since when you open the TacCam a Legend at the bottom of the screen tells you all the buttons to use while in this mode.  but I digress.

 

Allow me to explain the Tactical Camera.

 

 

In Dragon Age: Inquisition you have two modes of Play. 3rd Person active combat, or Full Camera Control Tactical View.

 

While 3rd Person Active Combat is rather self-explanitory TacCam is apparently not..../facepalm

 

Full Camera Control Tactical View is like how it sounds. full pan and zoom controls while in TacCam, you can;

1. Issue Orders Ranging from;

 -Attack Target

 -Move to Location

 -Hold Position

 -Use Item

 -Use Ability

 

However it is worthy to note if you have the Companion AI tured on, after giving a command to your allies; your command will be executed, but soon after the AI will take over and do what it pleases.

 

Now if you have the AI turned off and you wish to live out Combat in the TacCam, there is a button to allow live action to resume, and at anytime you wish to pause combat and issue new orders you simple release the button.  Its that simple.

 

So again before you start slinging Nonsense, dlux please check yourself.

Unfortunately this is most game reviews websites. The most casual gamers I personally know handle tasks easier then 90% of reviewers. Random youtubers do better, at playing the games properly. Then again, I dont need their opinion, I just want to see how it plays, so mute is kinda amazing in this regard. You can tell though why most game reviewers dont do lets plays or what not, because they dont look competent, at all. I know that's mean, but it is the truth, imo. 

[Jenaimarre]

Sold.

Damn, your crime co-efficient just went up.

[Medhia_Nox]

@theflyingzamboni:  I didn't hate it certainly.

 

It's not less artificial than the "do you need help stranger" method.

[Hillbillyhat]

The issue with the game starting with a bang depends on how its done personally. For example Destiny gives a brief intro of the background and then Peter Dinklage comes in to say "I've been looking for you, the Fallen are here run." Okay it was interesting and I was mainly waiting for an explanation for things that never came. Bioware games are much different since they'll dump info on you. DAO possibly one of the worst when it comes to it since there is soo much lore people can feel overwhelmed. The lore is interesting, but explaining it and learning about it can drag the game out for some people. 

 

With DAI an explosive opening can get people interested in whats going on and learning about it. Its a way to peak the players interest in the lore. If done well that can work. Of course considering this is the third game in a series with a lot of complex issues. A quick conversation with one person trying to explain something won't work well. A new player will just have a thousand more questions that won't be answered until later. Hell it can be even more silly when a Mage PC asks "What's a Templar?" during the conference.

[DuckTheSecond]

Whether or not the game is newbie friendly, it's not something that will make or break the game. 

 

The first time I played through DA:O, I didn't understand everything completely. But after a second playthrough I did. So I don't believe a game should explain everything to you immediately at the beginning.

[Ferretinabun]

Am I the only one who liked the "stalker" method of delivering quests? It just made so much more sense to me than people unburdening themselves on a random stranger. "Hey, you've got a face! I trust you to handle a sensitive matter for me! I need you to go tickle my archrival."

Let's be honest, immersion is taking a bit of a knock either way for the sake of giving the player (possibly world-building) things to do. Neither bothered me too much.

[RedIntifada]

Here is an article with the opposite perspective in regard to DA:I's orientation to newcomers http://blog.us.plays...-for-newcomers/
 

Having neither seen the opening clips or seen to what extent you can ask questions of Cassandra either before or after... and not being new to the series I can't really offer much of a useful opinion as to how friendly the first few hours are to new people.

[theflyingzamboni]

Let's be honest, immersion is taking a bit of a knock either way for the sake of giving the player (possibly world-building) things to do. Neither bothered me too much.

That's definitely true. Stalking just seemed marginally more "natural."

[Peranor]

The stalking quests from Mass effect 3 makes a comeback (oh i overheard you talking, here take these bear claws)

Great the hear! The much loved eavesdropping quests that everyone praised in Mass Effect 3 sure deserves to make a comeback! I'll be sure to adjust my ear size in the character generator accordingly.

But to be serious. "Eavesdropping quests" does not inherently have to be bad. As long as they don't overdo it, that way of delivering quests to the player can fit the situation and story better sometimes.

[dlux]

Watch a Video dlux before you start slinging non-sense.
 
[...]
 
So again before you start slinging Nonsense, dlux please check yourself.

Why are you flaming me? The PC Gamer guys said that combat is very different (more action) than in previous installments and that the game has numerous fetch quests. I am not spreading nonsense, I am just reflecting upon what they said.
 
Seriously, do you suck at reading or something? Go and bug them on their channel instead if you disagree with what they said.

 

Why should I play the game? There's been ample gameplay vids out there that CLEARLY show you can play the game in Tactical Camera mode (as in, they actually did it), a mode which we KNOW features autoattack, and has none of the "issues" these particular previewers mention.

I know, you don't need to play the game to know that PC gamer is 100% wrong and that everything in DA:I is better than ever. You already wrote that before.
 
Maybe they are wrong because they are stupid morons, I don't know that and neither do you. No need to get so butthurt about it and bug me because of my comments that reflected upon what they said.

 

 

 

 

Even if what they said is true, it isn't the end of the world and it doesn't mean that the game will be bad.  Damn fanboyism here, jeez.

BTW, I have preorderd DA:I and am looking foward to the game. 

[aries1001]

At some point in this video, one of the guys from PC Gamer talks about the combat. And what he says doesn't fit what I've seen from other previews or even with Mike Laidlaw and Mark Darrah have said about the combat. As I understand it, you can change to the tactical - all the time - view when you're in combat. 

[Peter_Stauffenberg]

I don't get this con from the review:

 

"You  are apparently trusted into the inquisition rather than forming it".

 

I think story wise it feels more natural if you're being let into such an organization because they need you rather than you forming it.  Before the start of the game you're a nobody and then you get this special power to close rifts.

 

We know that Leliana and Cassandra (seekers) have been in the inquisition for some time. So it looks like they figure out they need your powers and you're let into their group.  After some time your leadership abilities means you become the new leader.  I think that is a pretty good start of the game. 

 

Players should probably play for themselves to make opinions because they are so different.  Some people enjoy the new combat and others don't. You can't please them all. Looking at videos will tell you much more than reading reviews by people.  I have stopped reading reviews from game magazines because they have a different agenda than just trying to inform us about how the game is.  Some poor games get good reviews and vice versa. Maybe it has something to do whether they get advertising for the game or not.