248 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Attribute allocation has been removed from the player's control this time.   They are still there for you to look at so that it feels like a standard RPG, though.   However, they don't want players messing up by thinking outside the little boxes that they have created for the classes.  

 

Sorry, I am a bit hyper-cynical this morning.   Its one of my pet peeves in watching games remove things from the player's control in order to 'prevent' them from making a mistake. 

Bolded for emphasis. I feel very much boxed in by the limiting weapon choices and by being married and tied to my staff as a mage. Several other aspects add to the impression.

 

However, it's just combat. Nothing I'm too concerned about as long as what we do get is reasonably satisfying to play. Dialogue options and being boxed in in ideology and faith, that I'm much more concerned about.

[Medhia_Nox]

*que droning speech that won't change anyone's mind anyway*

Regardless of people's claims because THEY want the game to fit into a box of their description... DA:I is not solely about a singular character called the Inqusitor - but rather that character's ability to shape and mold the world around him/her through an organization called:  The Inquisition.

Because of this - a phenomenal amount of work "seems" (I haven't played it) to have been put into creating a system where you can play the role of a leader of a world altering organization by building it "mostly" from the ground up and shaping it through the course of the game.

 

Due to that extra effort - some things about the personal character - were automated.  I'm sorry it upsets people - but that's life.  

 

It is interesting that people talk about "in a box" - when they can't even wrap their heads around the idea that the choices a character makes through their Inquistion or shaping their world are "part of their character" and that has, presumably, been massively enhanced and added to. 

 

I can play a million character builders... I want Inquisition - as a game - to be a little more out of the box and feel like a more dynamic single player RPG.  RPG - to me - means the storytelling aspect.  Given what I DO know about the game - I am very hopeful.

[Gnoster]

Disregarding the obvious stat effects from gear has attribute increase been removed from leveling as well? I mean it's one thing for the game to automatically spend them, it's another to remove them completely.

 

Depending on the level of stat (including health) effect one can add through gear, I don't really see it as a huge problem. It actually makes crafting gear more important, which seems a good thing.

[Navasha]

Am I going to be allowed to craft armor that would allow my 2-handed warrior to have a high cunning rating?    I guess that is the question I would then ask.   Because if I can only craft class-restricted armor that boosts strength or constitution, then it absolutely is a limitation.  

 

My best 2-handed warrior in DA2 had high cunning and only moderate strength.   If the new system doesn't allow me for those kinds of 'off-brand' builds, then it is a lesser system.  

[Medhia_Nox]

@Navasha:  Yes, you can - it won't do anything though. Cunning - as far as I know - isn't tied to anything a warrior can do (it's not tied to conversation anymore as far as I know).

[AshenEndymion]

@Navasha:  Yes, you can - it won't do anything though. Cunning - as far as I know - isn't tied to anything a warrior can do (it's not tied to conversation anymore as far as I know).

 

Cunning was tied to defense in DA2(as opposed to Dexterity in DAO)... If Cunning is tied to defense in DAI, then having it can definitely help Warriors...

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Am I going to be allowed to craft armor that would allow my 2-handed warrior to have a high cunning rating?    I guess that is the question I would then ask.   Because if I can only craft class-restricted armor that boosts strength or constitution, then it absolutely is a limitation.  

 

My best 2-handed warrior in DA2 had high cunning and only moderate strength.   If the new system doesn't allow me for those kinds of 'off-brand' builds, then it is a lesser system.  

Yes, I'm fairly sure you can as the bonuses are based on the materials used (in the Crafting twitch stream Mike made some armour for Vivienne that gave her a strength boost for example).  On top of that masterwork materials can be even more esoteric (Skyhold twitch showed Cameron Lee making a two-handed sword that had a 5% chance to cast Walking Bomb on a hit target). 

[LonewandererD]

Gnoster, on 08 Nov 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:Gnoster, on 08 Nov 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

Disregarding the obvious stat effects from gear has attribute increase been removed from leveling as well? I mean it's one thing for the game to automatically spend them, it's another to remove them completely.

 

Depending on the level of stat (including health) effect one can add through gear, I don't really see it as a huge problem. It actually makes crafting gear more important, which seems a good thing.

Don't worry, attribute points will still increase on level up; it just automates what gets levelled up i.e magic and will power for mages, strength and constitution for warriors etc.

 

-D-

[Medhia_Nox]

@Illyria God King of the Primordium:  People seem to totally ignore that aspect - or maybe it doesn't matter to them - that it's also been said that, while rare, items that could give a non-warrior "Guard" are available...

 

It honestly looks like there's a chance gear could make each class crazy versatile - a Knight Enchanter who could also get the Guard ability would be a great tank... while a rogue that could cause Walking Bomb with their arrows would be awesome too.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

@Illyria God King of the Primordium:  People seem to totally ignore that aspect - or maybe it doesn't matter to them - that it's also been said that, while rare, items that could give a non-warrior "Guard" are available...

 

It honestly looks like there's a chance gear could make each class crazy versatile - a Knight Enchanter who could also get the Guard ability would be a great tank... while a rogue that could cause Walking Bomb with their arrows would be awesome too.

Yeah, personally I'm planning on speccing Vivienne as a walking turret of pure death with guard building and mostly ice/KE/Spirit abilities.  Barrier spam, freeze, swordswordswordsword.  As many spirit damage buffs as I can pick up and if necessary ice mining nearby allies to get the Winter Armour bonus for being near an active cold spell.  

[Medhia_Nox]

@Illyria God King of the Primordium:  Cool, my Inquisitor will be in your game as the role of Vivienne then cause that's exactly what I plan to have for my quizzy.  

[eternalshiva]

You do realise that the potion you're talking about in DA:O was a mod, right? You weren't supposed to be able to re-allocate your points once you put them in. There isn't much difference from hitting a + next to the stat versus crafting a piece of gear with +1500 to STR.

 

Not sure what the complainning is about, you only got like maybe 75 points to base stats added. With crafting you can allocate a couple thousands from some of the gear stats I've seen in spoilers. soooo....

[Kleon]

@Illyria God King of the Primordium:  People seem to totally ignore that aspect - or maybe it doesn't matter to them - that it's also been said that, while rare, items that could give a non-warrior "Guard" are available...

 

It honestly looks like there's a chance gear could make each class crazy versatile - a Knight Enchanter who could also get the Guard ability would be a great tank... while a rogue that could cause Walking Bomb with their arrows would be awesome too.

 

RNG and adding versatility? Unless, for example, a sword got from 50 to 100% chance of an effect of spell like a walking bomb it is not reliable. Furthermore, if classes gain acess to other classes abilites, what's the point?

 

Diablo 2 "multiplayer" was full of people who had sorceress spells or necromancer spells from items and didn't even bother with their own class spells/abilities. Diablo 2 was all about items and it was truly ridiculous for anyone who didn't want to bother with farming. Funny fact - Diablo 2 allowed atribute allocation as a hack&slash.

 

Focusing entire "character customization", or should I say, item customization doesn't make sense for single player games even with crafting. Why would anyone want to farm for crafting materials or depend on RNG drops in single player and supposedly story driven game?

[Otter-under-the-mountain]

Not sure what the complainning is about, you only got like maybe 75 points to base stats added. With crafting you can allocate a couple thousands from some of the gear stats I've seen in spoilers. soooo....

I think it's more that some members of the community are absolutely determined to hate anything about DAI that's even slightly different from Origins, regardless of whether that change helps or hinders them.

[azarhal]

@Navasha:  Yes, you can - it won't do anything though. Cunning - as far as I know - isn't tied to anything a warrior can do (it's not tied to conversation anymore as far as I know).

 

Cunning affected armor penetration in DAO and it's back in DAI (although maybe not under Cunning depending how they balanced the stats). In DA2, Cunning increased defense and critical damage, both are still present in DAI too.

[EmperorKarino]

Wait, we don't receive attribute points at level up? Where did this come from?

 

from bioware, to make the game less "gamey"

[Teddie Sage]

Thinking "outside" the box only makes the game harder than it already should. Anyways, I heard that your stats are lower or the enemy's stats are higher when playing on Hard or Nightmare, and this shouldn't be be a problem if you just want a challenge. Just play the game for what it is and if you don't like it, well trade it back for money. Otherwise, people like me don't really care about automatic stats allocation as I just want to focus on the story, the characters and the way I equip my companion. I was really tired of having to make sure I had enough stats to equip X, Y or Z back in DAO or DA2, now that I know that all the weapons have a level fence, this will make things easier for me.

[Looper128]

There’s a big thread discussing attribute points here: http://forum.bioware...ts-on-level-up/ it should have all the available information we have so far.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Azarhal:  That's great news.  Doesn't change the minds of the item haters... but that's excellent for anyone looking to personalize their character (through the evil of itemization).

 

I just wanted to be clear to the questioner that while I knew customizing the stats were possible - I was not aware if they did anything.  Thank you for the clarification.

 

@Kleon:  I'm confused... so you want restrictions to make a class "matter" but don't want restrictions because it doesn't make your class matter?  I know exactly what you're asking for... I know parameters and requirements you need to make a game acceptable - because I've read your posts, but all it really boils down to is: "This is how I prefer to play - anything else isn't a desirable way."

[Kleon]

 

@Kleon:  I'm confused... so you want restrictions to make a class "matter" but don't want restrictions because it doesn't make your class matter?  I know exactly what you're asking for... I know parameters and requirements you need to make a game acceptable - because I've read your posts, but all it really boils down to is: "This is how I prefer to play - anything else isn't a desirable way."

 

I was talking about not making items ridiculous and completely disconnected from the lore. 

 

Single player games shouldn't use an artificial time filler like farming (farming for craftng materials is a consequence of item customization only) because they are supposed to offer a specific tailored experiance. MMOs are limited in their deisgn because of the number of players they needs to take into account. Single player games don't have that issue so using MMO designs in single player game can be described as simply regress.

 

MMOs offer limited character customization because of balance issues in PvP that a single player game doesn't have. Thats why they focus on items. Dragon Age is supposedly a single player game first and foremost so limiting players in decisions about their characters doesn't make sense, there is no PvP balance to consider. If a player finds a weay to abuse the system through planning or number crunching then it is his or hers reward to use it. 

[bazzybond]

I think it's to encourage crafting items and weapons that will add points instead

[Kleon]

I think it's to encourage crafting items and weapons that will add points instead

 

Wasn't crafting supposed to be optional?

[Mukora]

They've said it will be, and personally, I believe them.

 

I doubt this will actually impact anything, really.

[LordParbr]

Attribute allocation has been removed from the player's control this time.   They are still there for you to look at so that it feels like a standard RPG, though.   However, they don't want players messing up by thinking outside the little boxes that they have created for the classes.  

 

Sorry, I am a bit hyper-cynical this morning.   Its one of my pet peeves in watching games remove things from the player's control in order to 'prevent' them from making a mistake. 

Well, I mean, it's not like it really matters. In Da2, there was no reason to put attribute points into anything other than the 2 class attributes, aside from unique cases. Like, obviously a Blood mage needs higher consistution, but Blood Mage isn't a specialization this time around.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Well, I mean, it's not like it really matters. In Da2, there was no reason to put attribute points into anything other than the 2 class attributes, aside from unique cases. Like, obviously a Blood mage needs higher consistution, but Blood Mage isn't a specialization this time around.

 

Or, you know, anyone that wanted a larger HP bar. Which for a character with no (mage) or light (rogue) armor, is a tad bit more useful than you think.

 

Take characters like Varric, Merril, or Anders that were on the low end of the totem pole. One good hit from an enemy could drop them. A point into Constitution every so often can pop that up to the point you have time to get over there and save them.

 

Especially, anyone that's ever played older editions of D&D can probably vouch for this. Some classes (heya, mage) had less HP than inanimate objects and household pets without a CON modifier.