Questa discussione ha avuto 92 risposte

[MKDAWUSS]

It's why companions I don't want or like "exit stage left" instead of die, just to preempt/prevent a retcon.

[Senjougahara Hitagi]

It's not like she has to explain it. There is no one except for Morrigan and Alistar in that game that actually knows she is dead. And since she isn't really a companion, there is a high probability that those two will never meet. 

[Natureguy85]

It was a decision made after DAO. Someone loved her so much that they brought her back.  And Not recruiting her, she shows up anyway.

 

Will she still claim to have been a companion of the Warden? I didn't ever not recruit her.

[AlanC9]

If they were going to retcon it so that you never had a choice about Leliana joining the party, they'd do it in the Keep too.

[Birdy]

Will she still claim to have been a companion of the Warden? I didn't ever not recruit her.

Nah, from what I picked up, she goes searching for the Urn of Ashes, if you defile them that's the option you'll get to see her, don't know if you see her otherwise.

You don't actually have to recruit anyone but Morrigan if I remember right?

[Natureguy85]

Nah, from what I picked up, she goes searching for the Urn of Ashes, if you defile them that's the option you'll get to see her, don't know if you see her otherwise.

You don't actually have to recruit anyone but Morrigan if I remember right?

 

Oh so if you don't recruit her in Lothering she shows up at the temple? I meant would she claim to be the companion of the Warden when she shows up in DA2.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm pretty sure there is specific dialogue and codex content for Leliana if the wasn't recruited in Dragon Age: Origins if Hawke runs into her in Dragon Age 2.

[Natureguy85]

I'm pretty sure there is specific dialogue and codex content for Leliana if the wasn't recruited in Dragon Age: Origins if Hawke runs into her in Dragon Age 2.

Hmm, now I kind of want to check that out. I've been considering playing Origins again. Maybe I'll do a minimum recruitment run. It probably wouldn't be an interesting import into DA2 though since I would just miss content. Mass Effect 3 replaced characters and I actually thought Padok Wiks had better lines than Mordin.

[crowskin]

The problem is messing with things that had unambiguous outcomes. There was zero reason to think that Leliana was anything but dead if you killed her. A decision was made later to bring her back. This is only a small problem by itself. The big problem is Bioware not admitting to this and instead feeding us BS about how "we don't actually know what happened."

 

The other issue, and where Leliana differs from Anders, is they brought her back just for a bit part cameo. This could be better or worse depending on your perspective, but it's certainly more perplexing as to why they bothered.

 

But this happens literally all the time in entertainment. How many times has the trope been used where someone was "definitely dead" only to have a scene where they waltz into the room and everyone's all "I thought you were dead"? It's a very common method of surprising the consumer of whatever media product you happen to be reading/watching. I literally just finished a book a couple of days ago where the main character's love interest was presumed dead. The MC thought he was dead and the circumstances he was supposedly killed in made me think he was dead too. Only, *surprise!* he wasn't actually dead!

 

I don't think we should confuse a game mechanic of corpses dissolving into what happens in the game universe. Leliana was "left for dead" and somehow survived. That seems clear cut enough for me.

[Natureguy85]

But this happens literally all the time in entertainment. How many times has the trope been used where someone was "definitely dead" only to have a scene where they waltz into the room and everyone's all "I thought you were dead"? It's a very common method of surprising the consumer of whatever media product you happen to be reading/watching. I literally just finished a book a couple of days ago where the main character's love interest was presumed dead. The MC thought he was dead and the circumstances he was supposedly killed in made me think he was dead too. Only, *surprise!* he wasn't actually dead!

 

I don't think we should confuse a game mechanic of corpses dissolving into what happens in the game universe. Leliana was "left for dead" and somehow survived. That seems clear cut enough for me.

 

Sure, but just because it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right. Like every other trope, it has to be used correctly and in the correct context. The best examples are where you never actually see the person die or details were uncertain. The one that happens to come to mind is Mission Impossible. When John Voigt's character "dies", you hear a gunshot, see his bloody hands, and see him fall into water from his view. However, they don't just bring him back,but they play out the scene in 3rd person so you can see and understand what actually happened. This a great example of how to pull it off. Now it's easier to pull off in more modern settings because it's much more feasible in real life to survive a gunshot wound, so seeing someone get shot and lying there isn't a sure thing. What were the circumstances of the presumed death in the book you mentioned?

 

You would be right about the game mechanic had they initiated a cutscene showing Leliana's body there, just as even if you decapitate Zevran, the cutscene shows you talking to him. That allows us to file it under gameplay/story segregation. But they don't do that. Now what would have made it more believable is if instead of fighting her, you stab her in the gut with the "murder knife" like you can do to Morrigan in Witch Hunt. Then it would be far more believable and easier to use the urn excuse. Instead all we have is "surprise she's not dead". Since this clearly wasn't part of some plan all along, it's just a lame excuse.

 

Really, all they had to do was justify it in Dragon Age 2. If they did it right, maybe we could buy the idea of it being in that sacred/magical place or using the ashes itself. However, I'll point out that to cure Arl Eamon there was magic that needed doing with the Ashes. It wasn't just sprinkle the ashes into Eamon's beard and he's better.

[Senjougahara Hitagi]

Here you go:

 

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Feign_Death

[Etragorn]

Characters who appear to be truly dead and come back are generally the purview of soap operas and poorly written primetime drama's that are mid-season replacements and never get renewed

[AlanC9]

Perhaps, but there are so many exceptions to that rule, especially in fantasy and SF, that it's not a very useful rule.

[Birdy]

Sure, but just because it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right. Like every other trope, it has to be used correctly and in the correct context. The best examples are where you never actually see the person die or details were uncertain. The one that happens to come to mind is Mission Impossible. When John Voigt's character "dies", you hear a gunshot, see his bloody hands, and see him fall into water from his view. However, they don't just bring him back,but they play out the scene in 3rd person so you can see and understand what actually happened. This a great example of how to pull it off. Now it's easier to pull off in more modern settings because it's much more feasible in real life to survive a gunshot wound, so seeing someone get shot and lying there isn't a sure thing. What were the circumstances of the presumed death in the book you mentioned?

 

You would be right about the game mechanic had they initiated a cutscene showing Leliana's body there, just as even if you decapitate Zevran, the cutscene shows you talking to him. That allows us to file it under gameplay/story segregation. But they don't do that. Now what would have made it more believable is if instead of fighting her, you stab her in the gut with the "murder knife" like you can do to Morrigan in Witch Hunt. Then it would be far more believable and easier to use the urn excuse. Instead all we have is "surprise she's not dead". Since this clearly wasn't part of some plan all along, it's just a lame excuse.

 

Really, all they had to do was justify it in Dragon Age 2. If they did it right, maybe we could buy the idea of it being in that sacred/magical place or using the ashes itself. However, I'll point out that to cure Arl Eamon there was magic that needed doing with the Ashes. It wasn't just sprinkle the ashes into Eamon's beard and he's better.

 

Maybe they did have a plan for explaining it in DA2, but who'd she explain it too?  The only connection was Anders and that was only by meeting the Warden.  But the production of DA2 also got cut way short. They had one year to develop it.  Thankfully EA didn't **** the whole series over that stupidity.
Eh, Lilianna is just a weird character that someone  loved and there might have been more plans for her but it was never properly allowed to flesh out in production.

[Natureguy85]

Here you go:

 

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Feign_Death

 

Finally, an in-universe, non-BS potential answer. That's a good catch. I still think it should be revealed to the player somehow, but because it's an actual rogue talent, I could roll with this. Now the big question; does Leliana start with this or do you have to train it?

[AshenEndymion]

Finally, an in-universe, non-BS potential answer. That's a good catch. I still think it should be revealed to the player somehow, but because it's an actual rogue talent, I could roll with this. Now the big question; does Leliana start with this or do you have to train it?

 

The player has to decide if Leliana gets Feign Death in the game...

[Etragorn]

Here you go:
 
http://dragonage.wik...iki/Feign_Death

I think you may have found the only reasonable answer.

[Natureguy85]

The player has to decide if Leliana gets Feign Death in the game...

That's what I thought, but I could still file it under gameplay/story segregation. Like I said, it's at least a plausible excuse that uses an actual game mechanic rather than making excuses as everyone had done previously. I'd still prefer that there was some sort of cutscene that showed the body still there. Perhaps showing the company leaving the room and the camera lingering on her body. It wouldn't need any more than that to be at least believable.