232 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Actually, its not sadistic, even on Samara's case. Shepard honored samara's wishes and her code, and then wouldn't let an ardat yashki live to turn into a banshee. It may be Shepards darkest action in the game, but it wasn't sadistic. Shepard ironically did what the justicar would do and followed their code, and did what Samara could not bring herself to do. Remember, having a Ardat Yashki outside a monastery is a risk, especially if Banshees are made out of them. And another example of a Renegade action that people think was sadistic, shooting Mordin wasn't sadistic at all. Shepard felt hurt after doing it and Garrus notices something wrong.

[Daemul]

There was nothing sadistic about killing Falere or Mordin, they were completely logical and justifiable decisions, especially in the case of Mordin, who let his guilt cloud his judgement, something which in ME2 he said he would never allow to happen. Shepard clearly derived no pleasure from killing Falere or Mordin, it was something that needed to be done.

Going off topic, Samara killing herself makes no sense, not after her LM in ME2 and after all the things she has said. That entire mission was strange tbh.

[Reorte]

You've got a rather strange perspective. Samara shot herself because it was the only way she saw of saving Falere. To then shoot Falere anyway is just pissing all over that. If Shepard had just shot Falere in the first place you'd probably have a point - Samara would be very, very upset probably but would still have her code unbroken (which would've prevented her from attacking Shepard) so would probably have managed to go on, seeing how dedicated to it she was.

[TurianRebel212]

Witcher pwnds both for mature content and adult material..... So... yeah. GG. 

[KaiserShep]

@ HYR 2.0

 

Renegade choices can be useful. in ME2, choosing the Renegade path in ME2 makes Zaeed happy and lets you avoid a high speech check to keep his loyalty. Paragons can finish that quest without his loyalty, even kill him. Renegades also hurt the gunship in Garrus's recruitment mission, takes a killer out of the world in Samara's loyalty mission, etc. The Paragon non-charm option in Tali's loyalty mission has repercussions in ME3. And Renegades have the optimal outcome in the Tuchanka scenario when it comes to War Assets.

 

The problem with Renegade was that in ME1 and ME2, they attach a sadistic and mean tone when there shouldn't be one as Renegade is a philosophy on how to handle a situation. ME3 eliminates this sadism, as the Renegade Shepard is far more human and less of a sadistic power fantasy one liner. In fact, he is the more confident and realistic Shepard while the Paragon mopes at times.

 

DAO, outside that one choice on deciding who should be king of Orizimmar is pure black and white. It just has no scale. I am simply not fooled. The easy rule is if Leliana approves, its light side, if Morrigan approves, its dark side. Many choices in DAO are clear good and clear evil, unlike say The Witcher. Paragon and Renegade on the other hand are not good and evil. Many moments the Renegade is also doing a good thing, saving someone, not approving of a despicable action (see Gavin Archer experiment on David) or toughing someone up. Not so much with evil DAO characters.

 

Both Zaeed and Tali's loyalty missions end up being a wash for the simple fact that persuasion exists at all. A character like Zaeed would be far more convincing if his loyalty was impossible to get if Vido escapes. He's a stubborn son of a b**ch that would gladly walk all over innocent people just to get his revenge. A little talking to shouldn't change that. That Vido escapes ends up being pretty irrelevant, because his role in the trilogy ends then and there no matter what. And with Tali's loyalty mission, Shepard can yell at the admiralty board or blow smoke up their proverbial asses to the same exact effect. It doesn't matter what the other options entail, because the fact remains is that they are all suboptimal compared to the shared result of charm/intimidate.

 

As for the Paragon Of Her Kind quest, whether or not an action may be considered clearly immoral and whether or not a certain companion approves are irrelevant. What matters is whether or not you gain useful assets as a result of that choice, and in this case, taking the "dark" option will actually yield more.

[Arcian]

Lol what a stupid thing for the executive producer of the less popular franchise to say. Regardless of which is better, he looks like someone throwing mud on a popular car to try and make the lesser one next to it stand out. Not really a tactful way to talk your game up.

Also all this "darker is more mature" crap is getting old. He just looks like he is desperately trying to get the GoTs crowd into the game. No other reason to make a retarded comparison mentioning HBO by name.

They have been pretty honest since the release of DA:O in 2009 that Asoiaf is one of the main inspirations for the Dragon Age setting.

[congokong]

(Looks at both Dragon Age and Mass Effect game cases)

 

Hmm, they're both rated M for mature. I really don't know if either is more "adult" than the other. Mass Effect 3 for example is very dark-themed and could be especially gritty if we saw more of just what the reapers were doing to those they harvested.

[congokong]

They have been pretty honest since the release of DA:O in 2009 that Asoiaf is one of the main inspirations for the Dragon Age setting.

I saw very little comparison between ASOIAF and Dragon Age actually besides taking place in a setting before the industrial revolution but after hunter-gatherers started forming society and agriculture. That's really not unique considering that time period occupies a good part of human history.

[Larry-3]

I always thought the common age for Dragon Age is 14 to 27. From my point of view the target age for Mass Effect is 19 to 35. I am not saying that it is bad if people who play through the stories are younger or older, I am just saying that from my point of view those seem like reasonable ages when assuming what age group plays the games.

If both was a T.V. show then Dragon Age seems like something you would see TBS or TNT. Mass Effect seems like something HBO or AMC would play. I would not call Dragon Age a cartoon, but it would make a good anime. I can picture Mass Effect with hour long episodes at 9 P.M. on HBO.

"Next on HBO. Commander Shepard finally gets a lead on the whereabouts of Samara but ends up teaming with a detective and getting ambushed in an alley. Meanwhile his former crew mate, Liara, is nearly shot in the head in her own apartment. Anything can happen on the dark planet of Illium. It is hardly any safe than Omega. The premier begins now... "

[ImaginaryMatter]

I always thought the common age for Dragon Age is 14 to 27. From my point of view the target age for Mass Effect is 19 to 35. I am not saying that it is bad if people who play through the stories are younger or older, I am just saying that from my point of view those seem like reasonable ages when assuming what age group plays the games.

If both was a T.V. show then Dragon Age seems like something you would see TBS or TNT. Mass Effect seems like something HBO or AMC would play. I would not call Dragon Age a cartoon, but it would make a good anime. I can picture Mass Effect with hour long episodes at 9 P.M. on HBO.

"Next on HBO. Commander Shepard finally gets a lead on the whereabouts of Samara but ends up teaming with a detective and getting ambushed in an alley. Meanwhile his former crew mate, Liara, is nearly shot in the head in her own apartment. Anything can happen on the dark planet of Illium. It is hardly any safe than Omega. The premier begins now... "

 

ME always seemed to me like something that would show up on ABC. Although that's because Cerberus is about as believable as HYDRA from Agents of Shield.

[KaiserShep]

I see both franchises fitting best as an animated series or movie. A live action Mass Effect or Dragon Age just doesn't sit well with me.

[Excella Gionne]

Just don't make a Twilight version of Mass Effect and a show of Dragon Age.

[Han Shot First]

That comment has me a bit worried about the next game. 

 

I hope "teen-rated sunday afternoon show" isn't seriously the mood they are aiming for with the next title. Mass Effect was at its worst when it when it felt like a video game adaptation of a comic book and at its best when it felt like hard Sci Fi.

[mybudgee]

What is so "mature" about Game of Thrones??

[Dr. Rush]

To be fair, this is true of all Bioware previous Bioware games. They are all pretty much PG-13. I don't know if that is really going to change with DAI or ME4, I don't think it will. 

[Excella Gionne]

What is so "mature" about Game of Thrones??

HODOR!

[txgoldrush]

@Reorte

 

Shepard can shoot Falere because Samara solved nothing by killing herself. This leads to Shepard still thinking that she can be a threat if allowed to be free.

[txgoldrush]

@KaiserShep

 

The dark option can yield more in ME3 as well. Sending the academy students to the front lines is worth more points, as is sabotaging the cure with Wreav as leader (and I think Eve is worth more points than Mordin, so you may have to shoot him to get the best point value). ME3 balances it out.

 

And ME3 is quite playful with charm and intimidate, as well as interrupts. They don't always work.

[Reorte]

@Reorte
 
Shepard can shoot Falere because Samara solved nothing by killing herself. This leads to Shepard still thinking that she can be a threat if allowed to be free.

Paragon Shepard saved Samara by wrestling her out of being able to shoot herself. Renegade Shep could've done it just by shooting Falere, leaving Samara with no code contradictions. At least that fits with the "pragmatic" angle. JerkShep leaves both dead and loses someone useful for fighting Reapers.

[Linkenski]

HODOR!

[Ieldra]

If I may chime in on the debate:

 

I think Mark Darrah is correct with his statement. Regardless of all the brutaliy presented, the ME trilogy always had this simplistic feel-good morality that tells you that everything will be ok if you follow your heart. You can exclude the ending if you want since it alone features a decision that doesn't have a preferred outcome based on intuitive morality, but even here the fact is that the ending was intended to come across as "uplifting", and that it didn't was a storytelling failure, not a feature. The ME trilogy made some token efforts to cater to a more mature mindset, but it was rarely more than a token effort. Even where things got really dark as when you chose to sabotage the genophage, the game did everything it could to tell you you weren't supposed to make that choice. ME was more heavy-handed in its moralizing than any other Bioware game I've played, which, in my experience, is more likely to appeal to a T audience rather than an M audience. it also often appealed to emotion at the expense of reason, which is incompatible with any mindset you can reasonably call "mature".

 

Meanwhile, DA rarely went out of its way to attach values to the decisions you can make. That was left to the player and as a consequence, you have more freedom in roleplaying in DA, even where your choices are limited. A pro-templar Hawke could be any kind of person, while ME attached a certain dismissive or sometimes even sadistic tone and an almost canonical racism to Renegade Shepard. Playing a Renegade Shepard often felt like fighting the writers in ME. Meanwhile, the only preferences I have to fight when playing a pro-templar character in any DA game are my own.

 

The DA games may have their flaws, but overall they give me considerably more freedom in my roleplaying, and they haven't yet punished me for actually thinking about things and following up on that with a decision, even where that goes against the intuitive good. That's why I count them considerably more mature at heart than the ME games. For me personally, almost all of my problems with the ME trilogy can be tracked to my inability to recognize early enough that this - a classic space opera with easy-to-grasp, intuitive heroism - is exactly what ME wanted to be. You can play the DA games the same way and succeed, but it's more satisfying if you don't. Meanwhile, divert your Shepard from Bioware's vision and you'll end up fighting the story and being frustrated at every turn.   

[Coming0fShadows]

It seems like everyone has their own definition of what mature means these days.

[Linkenski]

Everyone likes to throw the term "mature" around a lot, yes. I think it's hilarious though how many think Mature means "blood sex and violence" because if there's no reasons for these things other than to just superficially have the themes represented in a work of fiction then it seems immature instead. (Yeah, I probably needed an example or some more context, but laziness hinders me)

[Iakus]

Yup.

 

Dark=/=mature 

 

@KaiserShep

 

The dark option can yield more in ME3 as well. Sending the academy students to the front lines is worth more points, as is sabotaging the cure with Wreav as leader (and I think Eve is worth more points than Mordin, so you may have to shoot him to get the best point value). ME3 balances it out.

 

And ME3 is quite playful with charm and intimidate, as well as interrupts. They don't always work.

 

Wrex dead, Eve alive, shoot Mordin in the back yields the greatest number of overall points for the Tuchanka arc, as you get most of the krogan support as well as the salrians.

[mybudgee]

Now THIS is mature: