232 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It's a thing yes. Not the only thing though. Hell, not even the worst thing.

 

But it's not if ending at "Best Seats in the House," though Shepard is still badly wounded and far from help. What am I missing?

[Massa FX]

But it's not if ending at "Best Seats in the House," though Shepard is still badly wounded and far from help. What am I missing?

 

Not far from help. Not really. There are 13.2 Million souls on the Citadel. Not all of them are Reaper chow... 

 

Hypothetical 

 

Positive - Shepard is "saved" with High EMS by Citadel survivors. Anyone:Bailey. Dr. Michelle, Wilson (he escaped from Jail), Kolyat, Mouse, ...  there should be survivors in some of the wards. 

 

Negative - Shepard bleeds out. A slow agonizing death. Alone. In the dark (cybernetic eyes are gone). 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Not far from help. Not really. There are 13.2 Million souls on the Citadel. Not all of them are Reaper chow... 

 

Hypothetical 

 

Positive - Shepard is "saved" with High EMS by Citadel survivors. Anyone:Bailey. Dr. Michelle, Wilson (he escaped from Jail), Kolyat, Mouse, ...  there should be survivors in some of the wards. 

 

Negative - Shepard bleeds out. A slow agonizing death. Alone. In the dark (cybernetic eyes are gone). 

 

Such can be said for Breath Scene Shepard (devs confirmed he/she is on the Citadel at that time).

 

Yet that has never stopped folks from insisting that Shepard's survival = impossibru!!

 

You do not have to convince me of anything because it is quite obvious to me that Shepard survives... as a nugget.

[Iakus]

But it's not if ending at "Best Seats in the House," though Shepard is still badly wounded and far from help. What am I missing?

 

You're missing the synthetic genocide.

[themikefest]

You're missing the synthetic genocide.

What genocide? Every time I pick destroy, which is all the time, I never experienced any genocide at all. That's what's so great about destroy. No losses unless the player has low ems.

[Alamar2078]

Seeing that DA:I is the new game on the block I would of course expect developers to be of the opinion "it's the best thing we've ever don".  I don't know how much I'd downplay other games but at least it's understandable to compare yourselves to Game of Thrones or some other hot HBO property.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You're missing the synthetic genocide.

 

No, you're not understanding me. You said the player should be left to imagine what happens next after "Best Seats in the House." However, Shepard is not in much better shape there than after the final decision, and you've criticized the Breath Scene for doing exactly that rather than clearly showing Shepard alive, so... what gives?

[Iakus]

No, you're not understanding me. You said the player should be left to imagine what happens next after "Best Seats in the House." However, Shepard is not in much better shape there than after the final decision, and you've criticized the Breath Scene for doing exactly that rather than clearly showing Shepard alive, so... what gives?

 

And you are not understanding me.

 

No I don't like the breath scene.  I never did.  But there are worse aspects of the ending.  Aspects so bad that I'd be willing to accept such an uncertain outcome if it meant those aspects could be excised from the game.

 

If the game ended with the "best seats in the house" scene, it would mean much of that psuedointellectual drivel passed off as "deep themes" never appears on screen.  It still wouldn't be a great ending.  But it would be a price I was willing to pay.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 So your response to a bad ending is to... make it even worse in your head.

 

 

Okay then.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Let a thousand flowers bloom, I say. The key, in my view, is to not subsist exclusively on a diet either of escapist fantasy or serious, Tarkovsky-esque meditations on the meaning of existence. The disconnect in Mass Effect happens from the perception that it quickly attempts to shift from the former to the latter in a very short space, like tacking the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey onto The Avengers. The ending seemed desperate to reach for a Big Statement about Something Important in a way that had never been so overt previously in the series.

 

This is largely my stance on fiction. I think too many people try to shoe-horn art into a very narrow frame when it's capable of reflecting an infinite number of aspects of the human experience. 

[Iakus]

 So your response to a bad ending is to... make it even worse in your head.

 

 

Okay then.

Umm, no.

 

My response to a bad ending is "What made it bad and how can it be changed or removed"?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

And you are not understanding me.

 

No I don't like the breath scene.  I never did.  But there are worse aspects of the ending.  Aspects so bad that I'd be willing to accept such an uncertain outcome if it meant those aspects could be excised from the game.

 

If the game ended with the "best seats in the house" scene, it would mean much of that psuedointellectual drivel passed off as "deep themes" never appears on screen.  It still wouldn't be a great ending.  But it would be a price I was willing to pay.

 

Still, I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Sure, in hindsight we might be able to say "best seats in the house" is a better ending. Hell, I've purposely ended turned off my Xbox at exactly that point. But the only reason why that kind of ending comes off as marginally acceptable is that we're comparing it to the Catalyst convo. 

 

In terms of an actual ending though? I'd say Bioware would have been chewed out for that ending even worse than the Catalyst convo. They'd instead be saying "how could they end the Mass Effect trilogy, the first ever decision-importing RPG made on a cliffhanger?" 

[Iakus]

Still, I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Sure, in hindsight we might be able to say "best seats in the house" is a better ending. Hell, I've purposely ended turned off my Xbox at exactly that point. But the only reason why that kind of ending comes off as marginally acceptable is that we're comparing it to the Catalyst convo. 

 

In terms of an actual ending though? I'd say Bioware would have been chewed out for that ending even worse than the Catalyst convo. They'd instead be saying "how could they end the Mass Effect trilogy, the first ever decision-importing RPG made on a cliffhanger?" 

Maybe.  But I figure they'd catch seven kinds of hell if the Catalyst was added as part of an EC.

[CaIIisto]

I loathe the 'breath' scene.

If Shepard's alive then wtf can't we have a proper epilogue?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Casey wanted a movie. TIM Scene -> Crucible attaches -> "Enter Catalyst ID: shepard touches the panel" "ID accepted." -> Best seats in the house. -> Crucible fires - The End.

[themikefest]

As I've posted a few times before.

 

With the breath scene, show a slide with Shepard standing side by side with his/her LI or by herself/himself, if no LI, with their backs to the camera looking over a field with the sun setting

 

With all endings that Shepard is dead, show a slide with a statue of Shepard in his/her armor with LI, if someone was romanced, looking at the staute. Or if that doesn't work, have a slide showing Shepard's grave with LI, if someone was romanced, standing over it

 

With low-ems destroy, below 1750, and refuse, keep those endings the way they are in the game 

[Reorte]

Still, I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Sure, in hindsight we might be able to say "best seats in the house" is a better ending.

Agree, it's only hindsight that makes that look even remotely acceptable (as good a scene as it is) so probably isn't really worth considering seriously.

[Alamar2078]

And yet another topic that devolves to discussing the endings.  I'm noticing a pattern

 

I'd lay off of Lakus ... I understand what he's trying to say.  In South Park terms the ending he has is a "turd sandwich".  In comparison he'd prefer an ending that was a "Giant Douche" instead.  This doesn't mean he likes Giant Douches but just that those are better than turd sandwiches.

 

I haven't played DA:I but I understand that in terms of story & execution & similar it's of a much higher quality than how ME3's ending was handled [and the Cruicible elements].  If that's what they're referring to them maybe they are right -- in terms of a story or art-for-art's sake ME3 may be clumsy or childish by comparison.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 meh ... the only real worthwhile things about Inquisition's ending was a non-choice of three possible outcomes and a twist after the credits.

 

 

On the whole it was pretty weak, but when the developers can ship out an unimaginative ending with a run-of-the-mill celebration party and count on the fans lapping it up as such great work, what incentive do they have to create something truly special?

[Iakus]

 meh ... the only real worthwhile things about Inquisition's ending was a non-choice of three possible outcomes and a twist after the credits.

 

 

On the whole it was pretty weak, but when the developers can ship out an unimaginative ending with a run-of-the-mill celebration party and count on the fans lapping it up as such great work, what incentive do they have to create something truly special?

Or maybe it's a sign that the "unimaginative ending with a run-of-the-mill celebration party" is simply vastly superior to the excrement we were given in ME3?

 

Perhaps this should be taken as a challenge to make something truly superior.  To put some actual thought into the work, how it fits into the story being told,  the past decisions of the player, and how it's likely to be received.  Not just assume that everything one touches is automatically gold? 

 

And yet another topic that devolves to discussing the endings.  I'm noticing a pattern

 

I'd lay off of Lakus ... I understand what he's trying to say.  In South Park terms the ending he has is a "turd sandwich".  In comparison he'd prefer an ending that was a "Giant Douche" instead.  This doesn't mean he likes Giant Douches but just that those are better than turd sandwiches.

 

I haven't played DA:I but I understand that in terms of story & execution & similar it's of a much higher quality than how ME3's ending was handled [and the Cruicible elements].  If that's what they're referring to them maybe they are right -- in terms of a story or art-for-art's sake ME3 may be clumsy or childish by comparison.

 

I'd probably say I'd rather have just two slices of plain white bread than have a pile of excrement between the two.

 

To further compare the DAI ending with ME3's 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Or maybe it's a sign that the "unimaginative ending with a run-of-the-mill celebration party" is simply vastly superior to the excrement we were given in ME3?

 

If [better than (the largely exaggerated negative idea of) ME3's ending] is all the fans need to be satisfied, then enjoy more-of-the-same.

[dreamgazer]

Excrement.

[Iakus]

If [better than (the largely exaggerated negative idea of) ME3's ending] is all the fans need to be satisfied, then enjoy more-of-the-same.

If you think the backlash against the endings was exaggerated, I'd hate to see what you would consider a genuinely negative reaction.

[Reorte]

If [better than (the largely exaggerated negative idea of) ME3's ending] is all the fans need to be satisfied, then enjoy more-of-the-same.

Satisfied is hardly ecstatic, and being merely satisifed at something mediocre isn't a good excuse for being mediocre - but it's an even worse one for throwing up any old nonsense merely to be different. Doing something bad at the wrong time can utterly derail a story, being merely acceptable won't, it'll become something like ME2 does once the Reaper baby shows up, something to shrug and forget about.

As Iakus suggested there wasn't anything exaggerated.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If you think the backlash against the endings was exaggerated, I'd hate to see what you would consider a genuinely negative reaction.

An exaggeration is, by definition, deliberate dishonesty...

... which is what the general anti-ending crowd has perpetrated time and again.

Lobbying for a new, better ending is acceptable. The conduct of these "fans" during that time, though, was frankly embarrassing to those who count themselves among this fanbase ... and, appreciate a more reasonable and level-headed approach to things.

Satisfied is hardly ecstatic, and being merely satisifed at something mediocre isn't a good excuse for being mediocre - but it's an even worse one for throwing up any old nonsense merely to be different. Doing something bad at the wrong time can utterly derail a story, being merely acceptable won't, it'll become something like ME2 does once the Reaper baby shows up, something to shrug and forget about.

Google: "failing not trying quotes," and you will find many good ones that I would simply reproduce here as a response.

Actually, I will just leave one here...

http://www.forbes.co...tes-on-failure/