165 réponses à ce sujet

[berrieh]

To those who think that critically analyzing the choices of the game is "attacking" Bioware - I think that the reason Bioware has done a good job with diversity so far and improved in specific areas of diversity and gender-representation is because they actually seem to listen and critically examine these issues. I certainly hope no one there feels "attacked" by a further discussion of the problematic nature of certain choices, mainly driven by industry-wide expectations and socialized views of gender in stories, etc, etc. I think Bioware does a great job with diversity. I also think there are certain things that can continue to improve, and if we want that to happen just shutting up about diversity and being happy with what we already have isn't the path. You can commend Bioware for being an industry-leader in this area and also see they still have areas of improvement. 

 

I think its a little more balanced when you add in the advisors, which at times appear to assist you in the field at least Cullen and leliana. Advisors are not insubstatial NPCs, they are a group you can interact with much like a companion, you just can't put them into your party. In terms of interaction though they are not two bit characters.

 

There are 12 companions and Advisors 5 of which are women. I hardly think that is gross under representation.

 

Head Scout hardling is a second teir Npc that you have multiple interactins with and she is female.

 

 

I'm not counting Harding because that's a separate category and we have no idea how many second tier NPCs there are yet, what gender, etc, etc. But I think it's a fine balance to have 5/7 and 2/1. I even think perhaps the companions are unbalanced due to the fact that Bioware specifically wanted 2 female advisors and didn't want to lean too far towards female characters out of caution.  That said, I think it's only fine if it were okay for them to have MORE female companions in a base game than male companions. I hope in the future it is something we see. (This will help the people complaining that there are more romances for straight females than straight males in future editions, too.) 

 

This doesn't change the fact that female companions are far more likely to be attractive and human than male companions are. So I think the request in the thread is a good one. 

 

Like DaySeeker said, can we please drop the "I hate that all of the female characters are attractive" thing. Ladies, physical attraction plays as much as a role as personality does for both men and women. Just let it go and talk about the ACTUALLY topic.

 

I couldn't agree more with the OP. It's like Bioware is doing it on propose or something. Male side has all four races (heck even a spirit) and on the female side is all humans and one elf. Said female elf can not be romanced by male elves (I will NEVER get over that). I just want the next game to have more race and culture diversity instead of being so human centric. Just my opinion.

 

All the male companions are not attractive. Why must all female companions be attractive? This actually leads to the topic - as dwarves and qunari are generally less "attractive" races (as are Krogans, Salarians, etc). The likelihood of racial diversity as well as overall character diversity (leaving out scarred women, giant warrior lady Brienne-esque [GoT reference], stocky women, etc) is hindered by the need for female companions to be attractive. This need seems to be greater for female companions than male companions. Why should companion builds for either gender be primarily based upon physical attraction? That should maybe feed into a small amount of them designed as traditionally attractive LIs, but not all LIs need to be attractive and not all companions are even allowed to be LIs.

 

I want diversity. This is a limitation (the way of thinking that female companions should be attractive) that must be removed for diversity. Since we've clearly been able to do that for male companions, I don't see why we can't for female companions. This is not to say NO attractive people should be included. Clearly, an array is the way to go. 

 

But aren't we all just over thinking the whole gender thing? I mean yeah, there are more men than women seen, but the ratio of most likely to be this or this gender is more realistic. More men are tended to be in a role where there is fighting than women are. [snip]

 

This is a game in a totally different world. I don't think Bioware included more males for this reasoning - if I did, I would be offended. I do think this kind of reasoning needs to die. So our human history is sexist so everything we ever make needs to represent that sexism and perpetuate the same stereotypes? I don't even have a problem with fantasy settings that have sexism that is similar to our world (I'm fine with Game of Thrones, for example), but the need to apply it even where it doesn't exist shows a continuing sickness in our own socialization. 

 

But you can't really talk about the lack of diversity of females in non-human races without bringing up the attractive factor, because it's clear that is why we never see more non-human women.  Women can't be giant scarred monsters because women have to be pretty.  It's not that prettiness is a problem, it's that it's limiting when that is all a female character can be.

 

Right. I think someone would be equally ridiculous to suggest that there should be NO pretty companions (male or female). 

[Lady Nuggins]

The whole "looks" factor goes into play of romanticizing things in some form or another. Movies, novels, and even video games. Attractive people are just that. They are people that attract others. Movie stars, pop stars, athletes, Heroes and Heroines. Looks and personality are always played hand in hand, but you really can't know their personality by just looking at a picture, which is why looks play a huge factor in selling merchandise.  

 

Character appearance isn't just there to be visually appealing, it's also there to be interesting, eye-catching, and visually show the character's personality.  When female characters aren't allowed to branch out from a narrow definition of attractiveness, the other factors suffer. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't get why something as subjective as whether a character is attractive or not is such a contentious issue.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

I dont see it as one myself.

Anyhoo back to the discussion.

 

Dagna. must have.

[Celtic Latino]

I dont see it as one myself.

Anyhoo back to the discussion.

 

Dagna. must have.

Dagna will be making an appearance, but it would be cool if she were actually a companion while Varric was an advisor/important NPC of some sort. 

 

She'd be the perfect artificer or some sort of unique rune-lyrium based AoE class that simulates magic but isn't. She's one of the most universally liked NPCs plus she'd add being a female dwarf to the team. 

 

Maybe DLC will let her be part of the team. 

 

I will say I praise the inclusion of Scout Harding as a prominent female dwarf NPC as well. She's an archer (not commonly used for dwarves) and looks like she's going to have a significant role even if she isn't a party member. 

 

Really wouldn't mind a leading female dwarf as a squadmate/companion in DA4's core original campaign. I know Pillars of Eternity will have Sagani, a dwarf ranger. Heck, FO: NV had a female supermutant. So its not like devs shy away from the idea and that these characters don't get fans. 

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

exactly as far as i am aware she is an Alchemist now.

[Gothfather]

The advisers do alleviate the imbalance a bit, but it's still seven men to five women, with far more of the men being party members than women.  It means that there is only one possible group that you could take with you if you wanted an all-female party, whereas you could mix-and-match two entire sets of party members to have an all-male one.  On top of that, 4 of those 5 women are human, one is an elf, and all of them have the same perfect figure and gorgeous face.

 

 

Samara has to be the most jarring character design.  Ancient, wise, mystical warrior... with two water balloons barely strapped to her chest with a physically impossible scrap of fabric.  Oh, and let's have Donnelly crack jokes about Asari chest sizes growing with age, just to drive the point home. 

 

Oh for frak sake are you seriously saying 7 men to 5 women is an imbalance of female representation? That the only way bioware can be fair and balanced is if they have a 6 and 6 division?

 

This has officially gone beyond the pale into Wah wah wah QQing. All the fraking men are good looking with perfect bodies. I would expect people who don't fart around all day in offices and eat processed foods to be fit. it would be woefully inaccurate for the companions, Cullen and leliana to be fat and unfit. They eat better they are all people who do a significant amount of exercise many of whom have martial training which requires you to be more than just fit.

 

You know why video games don't show fatties as companions? Its because fatties couldn't possibly do the fighting and physical exertion required. My bloody beer gut would get me killed if i was on shepard's team about 20 minutes after the firefight started because I'd be exausted and reacting too slowly to live. I'd be dead even quicker in a medieval combat setting. So yeah heroic people doing heroic things kinda requires a default body of FIT. And a FIT body looks attractive.

 

As for the female faces have you even heard/read the flak bioware has gotten over josephine, Sera and Cassadra? They are not universally view as hot babes, some lunatic even goes on a youtube channel and claims there is proactive PCism that has either deliberatly or subconsciously resulted in ugly women in Inquisition. The very fact that there are people who think this way pretty much collapses your implied notion of the bioware making the women overly beautiful.

 

You want to talk about Bioware having more imaginary racial diversity fine but i think it is far more important for them to have minimal imaginary racial diversity and have more actual human racial diversity. But sure lets all get on Biowares case for not providing equal representation for made up races.

 

Video games are escapism, the cry of give us ugly in our escapism, is pretty much always going to fall flat, because most people of ALL genders dont want to watch ugly people when they are trying to escape the boredom of real life.

 

To people in general.

 

How about people just enjoy the game for what it is, a game which is in fact pretty damn good at being representative of the world we live in and far more inclusive than the norm. It seems like for some people the only response to bioware continued enlightenment of social issues is either criticism for not being enlightened sooner or criticism for them not being enlightened enough.

 

If the only response to enlightenment is further criticism how do people honestly think that will be recieved? Diversity by its very nature requires more content which cost more money. Do people honestly think that this kind of behaviour towards the company that is leading the way in the industry makes other companies go, "Hmm yes lets follow bioware's lead and move towards a more enlightened position which will cost us more money to implement just so we can get more bad press?"

 

Its time to give bioware a round of applause for moving in a direction that is inclusive and far more representative of the world's diversity then ever before in a AAA game. This is a good thing people not something we should be saying, "yeah but its not enough." Celebrate the victory today so that we can work LATER on the victories of tomorrow. Don't try to drown the very victory that has been won in the bathtube of toxic attitudes that they should have done more. The game is literally not out yet and people are sh!tting on its failure of not being more representative and inclusive.

 

To bioware

 

[Golf Clap]

[DaySeeker]

Again, I do not see Bioware and Dragon Age especially having a problem with creating cookie-cutter beautiful women.  People on these forums have argued that NONE of the females are attractive.  I also don't understand the scarring preoccupation.  Why must you scar the women?  Why is that important?  I understand the various races department argument- I fully support that, but I don't horribly scar any of my companions or my PC.  

 

Granted I can not hear the tone of the "ugly" arguments, but it starts to sound vindictive to me- "Beautiful women must be destroyed!"  "No one can be more attractive than I!"  Honestly, given the the choice between attractive and unattractive- all other factors being equal I will always choose attractive, unless there is only one model for beauty.  I would like to see different skin colors, different body types, different races, I would find a character missing an arm or legs cool to see how they live in the world and how the world accomodates them. 

 

I also don't think not having characters who are "different" existing in supplemental roles or existing in the world for you to interact with lessens them.  I would have trouble believing an obese character as a companion unless they had a way to trek miles with super athletic folks and fight nonstop, but a nobleman- that I could believe.  A scout missing an arm or an advisor who has been horribly burned all of these would make sense in the world, and do service to the idea that the world is dangerous, that soldiers can be called upon to sacrifice things besides their lives.  

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

See this is why i agree whith you and i hate humanity Gothfather.

and modern day youknowwhats.

 

Regardless

Female Tvinter Elf like Fenris.

[Lady Nuggins]

Oh for frak sake are you seriously saying 7 men to 5 women is an imbalance of female representation? That the only way bioware can be fair and balanced is if they have a 6 and 6 division?

 

Dude, what's up with the hostility? 

 

I've explained my reasoning with the gender ratios and why I wish it were better.  I'm not saying it has to be 100% even all the time, but that the fact that it's imbalanced, combined with other factors, do make me wish it were better.  If you don't think it's a problem, then it's not a problem for you, but I don't see why I'm not allowed to express dissatisfaction with that.

 

 

This has officially gone beyond the pale into Wah wah wah QQing. All the fraking men are good looking with perfect bodies. I would expect people who don't fart around all day in offices and eat processed foods to be fit. it would be woefully inaccurate for the companions, Cullen and leliana to be fat and unfit. They eat better they are all people who do a significant amount of exercise many of whom have martial training which requires you to be more than just fit.

 

You know why video games don't show fatties as companions? Its because fatties couldn't possibly do the fighting and physical exertion required. My bloody beer gut you'd get me killed if i was on shepard's team about 20 minutes after the firefight started because I'd be exausted and reacting too slowly to live. I'd be dead even quicker in a medieval combat setting. So yeah heroic people doing heroic things kinda requires a default body of FIT. And a FIT body looks attractive.

 

As for the female faces have you even heard/read the flak bioware has gotten over josephine, Sera and Cassadra? They are not universally view as hot babes, some lunatic even goes on a youtube channel and claims there is proactive PCism that has either deliberatly or subconsciously resulted in ugly women in Inquisition. The very fact that there are people who think this way pretty much collapses your implied notion of the bioware making the women overly beautiful.

 

You want to talk about Bioware having more imaginary racial diversity fine but i think it is far more important for them to have minimal imaginary racial diversity and have more actual human racial diversity. But sure lets all get on Biowares case for not providing equal representation for made up races.

 

Video games are escapism, the cry of give us ugly in our escapism, is pretty much always going to fall flat, because most people of ALL genders dont want to watch ugly people when they are trying to escape the boredom of real life.

 

I don't know why you're getting the idea that asking for more interesting characters = demanding characters all be ugly.  I asked for characters to look interesting.  Iron Bull is not a pretty character, but he is an interesting one.  That's great.  I want more of that.

 

I also said absolutely nothing about fatness, but maybe you could tone down the "fatties" insult?  It's pretty unwarranted and mean. 

 

I also advocate very strongly for them to include more real world racial diversity in the games.  Oddly enough, you can have both those things, because elves and dwarfs can come in any color.

 

And yes, I want to see fantasy races in my fantasy game.  That is escapism, too.

 

To people in general.

 

How about people just enjoy the game for what it is, a game which is in fact pretty damn good at being representative of the world we live in and far more inclusive than the norm. It seems like for some people the only response to bioware continued enlightenment of social issues is either criticism for not being enlightened sooner or criticism for them not being enlightened enough.

 

If the only response to enlightenment is further criticism how do people honestly think that will be recieved? Diversity by its very nature requires more content which cost more money. Do people honestly think that this kind of behaviour towards the company that is leading the way in the industry makes other companies go, "Hmm yes lets follow bioware's lead and move towards a more enlightened position which will cost us more money to implement just so we can get more bad press?"

 

Its time to give bioware a round of applause for moving in a direction that is inclusive and far more representative of the world's diversity then ever before in a AAA game. This is a good thing people not something we should be saying, "yeah but its not enough." Celebrate the victory today so that we can work LATER on the victories of tomorrow. Don't try to drown the very victory that has been won in the bathtube of toxic attitudes that they should have done more. The game is literally not out yet and people are sh!tting on its failure of not being more representative and inclusive.

 

To bioware

 

[Golf Clap]

 

I give Bioware praise all the time for exactly this.  What is wrong with also giving them feedback in the Feedback Forum?

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

I think its more the fact that there have been a saturation of hate threads in the last few weeks. 

[SpiritMuse]

Again, I do not see Bioware and Dragon Age especially having a problem with creating cookie-cutter beautiful women.  People on these forums have argued that NONE of the females are attractive.  I also don't understand the scarring preoccupation.  Why must you scar the women?  Why is that important?  I understand the various races department argument- I fully support that, but I don't horribly scar any of my companions or my PC.  

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that beautiful women should not exist. We just want more diversity. Beauty and attractiveness should not always be the leading characteristic by which to design a female character. Nor the only thing by which she is judged. As for the scars, why not? 

 

It sometimes feels like "male" is the golden standard and you can only deviate one step from that - either toward alien (creature) or woman (who, apparently, to some men are as alien as, well, aliens).

 

And I would like to add that I do think Bioware is already doing a pretty awesome job of representing different kinds of women. I just would like to offer suggestions on how it can be even better.

 

On which note I would like to say that if I had created ME1 I would very probably have made the Quarian companion male (sexy slenderness) and the Krogan female (because awesome). And then still romance Kaidan because he's perfect. xD

 

In a DA world I would like to see a battlescarred Dwarven woman with beard stubble because they can have that now. She would be fearless and jovial, work hard play hard type of person, and just generally badass and awesome. Basically I want female Zaeed or Wrex. xD

[daveliam]

I think its more the fact that there have been a saturation of hate threads in the last few weeks. 

 

It's inevitable.  The game has been gotten a lot of coverage online and people are starting to come here that are either new or not regulars.  In addition to an increase of hate threads, I've also seen an increase in twee "OMG!!!1!! LOLZ!!!11! POsTs LyKE thYs....!"  It's going to be like this for the next couple of weeks and then it will slowly start to go back to what it was before.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

S' why i post Jokes. im no good at rants though i make no secret of my Egalatarinism.

and dislike of modern day Feminism and SJWs.

 

Can we please just post frekin character ideas? ilike those.

[daveliam]

S' why i post Jokes. im no good at rants though i make no secret of my Egalatarinism.

and dislike of modern day Feminism and SJWs.

 

Can we please just post frekin character ideas? ilike those.

 

So it sounds like you are better off hanging out in the character threads and avoiding the ones like this that are discussing social issues.  There's totally room for both types of threads here.

[Lady Nuggins]

S' why i post Jokes. im no good at rants though i make no secret of my Egalatarinism.

and dislike of modern day Feminism and SJWs.

 

Can we please just post frekin character ideas? ilike those.

 

Then why not stick to those threads and avoid the ones you don't like?  All you do is bump these threads up.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't remotely call this a "hate thread".

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Why?

I never said i dont like them simply that i dont do rants.

im being impartial here to the best of my ability.

and i never said thay this was a hate thread.

 

Nuggins i have both agreef and disagreed whith some of your posts. 

but have never gone out of my way to demean your argument regardless of my views.

 

can we get back to the subject at hand. namely Female Nonhuman Companions for DA4 

[berrieh]

This has officially gone beyond the pale into Wah wah wah QQing. All the fraking men are good looking with perfect bodies. I would expect people who don't fart around all day in offices and eat processed foods to be fit. it would be woefully inaccurate for the companions, Cullen and leliana to be fat and unfit. They eat better they are all people who do a significant amount of exercise many of whom have martial training which requires you to be more than just fit.

 

You know why video games don't show fatties as companions? Its because fatties couldn't possibly do the fighting and physical exertion required. My bloody beer gut would get me killed if i was on shepard's team about 20 minutes after the firefight started because I'd be exausted and reacting too slowly to live. I'd be dead even quicker in a medieval combat setting. So yeah heroic people doing heroic things kinda requires a default body of FIT. And a FIT body looks attractive.

 

As for the female faces have you even heard/read the flak bioware has gotten over josephine, Sera and Cassadra? They are not universally view as hot babes, some lunatic even goes on a youtube channel and claims there is proactive PCism that has either deliberatly or subconsciously resulted in ugly women in Inquisition. The very fact that there are people who think this way pretty much collapses your implied notion of the bioware making the women overly beautiful.

 

You want to talk about Bioware having more imaginary racial diversity fine but i think it is far more important for them to have minimal imaginary racial diversity and have more actual human racial diversity. But sure lets all get on Biowares case for not providing equal representation for made up races.

 

I do think Inquisition does better than ever before at promoting more variations within the traditional attraction spectrum and getting away from too obvious "babe"ness. Still, there is no female character in a base game, like Oghren or The Iron Bull or Garrus or Wrex, that looks interesting but obviously unbeautiful. Shale is awesome. But that's really all there is. And I believe that's part of the reason why we don't have, say, a female Qunari companion and why if they do put one in, it will be hard on devs (make her sexy and pretty, and a part of the crowd will react as though she looks un-Qunari, and make her look like a hulking, brutish giant of a woman, similar to Iron Bull but female, and a part of the crowd will be angry with that depiction). The very fact that women who look less feminine - that even characters like Sera and Cassandra, who are still within a spectrum of objective beauty by most parameters even if they're less so than the traditional sexpot woman in games - are controversial is a massive problem worth discussing. Just shut up, every woman needs to be attractive, is not an attitude that helps anyone. 

 

As to men being attractive, there are usually a wider array of "looks" (as well as races) among men than women, including many that are not conventionally attractive. These have been cited in thread. Wynne is the only example I can think of, really, and that's only her age - she's clearly someone who was beautiful in her youth and very attractive for a woman her age. Even Tali who gets closest to the ideal is very human looking and way to supermodelized if you find the picture of her as male Shep. She has human skin, etc. (Shale is awesome, but she is DLC.)

 

Video games are escapism, the cry of give us ugly in our escapism, is pretty much always going to fall flat, because most people of ALL genders dont want to watch ugly people when they are trying to escape the boredom of real life.

 

 

Really? I don't really consider "beautiful people" (male or female) a necessity for a game or for my escapism. And anyway, as many have said, the cry is to give us the same interesting and varied looks as is available to males. Not ugly per se, but not ruling out ugly when it's interesting. 

 

And the "cry" was basically, "Here's a suggestion" until people stepped in with the whole, "Whoa, whoa, whoa...NOT beautiful? The women can't be not beautiful!?!?!" attitudes. 

 

Again, I do not see Bioware and Dragon Age especially having a problem with creating cookie-cutter beautiful women.  People on these forums have argued that NONE of the females are attractive.  I also don't understand the scarring preoccupation.  Why must you scar the women?  Why is that important?  I understand the various races department argument- I fully support that, but I don't horribly scar any of my companions or my PC.  

 

Iron Bull is scarred. Garrus gets scarred. This is why scarring is mentioned. I also don't see why people who are battle-tested shouldn't occasionally be scarred. Why are you so opposed to women who are scarred? Does the Iron Bull bother you as much? Will you not use him because of his scars? 

 

The fact that you find it vindictive and are so very opposed to women who are objectively not beautiful (not in a "she's not pretty enough for me" way like how people fuss about Cassandra but in a way where the majority of people agree that the character is hulking or scarred or plain/homely in some way) says a lot about the problem, really. That's why people who want interesting and varied female looks, and for them to be as interesting and varied as male looks, need to keep talking. So our voice can be heard too. Personally, I don't care who is prettier than me. I don't factor into it at all. I do like when the women look just as cool and varied as the men, because that's interesting to me. That's more diversity. And that's where I hope Bioware is going. I'm not mad at them for not getting there yet; I'm just nudging them further in that direction. 

 

 

I think its more the fact that there have been a saturation of hate threads in the last few weeks. 

 

This is what I don't get. Nothing in this thread could be considered "hate." Pointing out, "Hey, most female companions are human, but male companions get a much wider array" isn't hate. It's a suggestion; it's feedback. I really didn't see any posts with hate or even anger in this thread - just a simple, "Hey I noticed this was not balanced well." 

[TheChosenOne]

God damn! DA:I didn't even come out yet and we're already giving suggestions for DA4............

 

You guys are the best at what you do.    

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Hay we are trying to beat the herd.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

This is what I don't get. Nothing in this thread could be considered "hate." Pointing out, "Hey, most female companions are human, but male companions get a much wider array" isn't hate. It's a suggestion; it's feedback. I really didn't see any posts with hate or even anger in this thread - just a simple, "Hey I noticed this was not balanced well." 

 

 

yeah i never said thah THIS was a hate thread only that there have been tons lately.

and i admit there is an inbalance i never said otherwise.

my first post here was "Needs more Dwarfs."

[Celtic Latino]

Oh for frak sake are you seriously saying 7 men to 5 women is an imbalance of female representation? That the only way bioware can be fair and balanced is if they have a 6 and 6 division?

This has officially gone beyond the pale into Wah wah wah QQing. All the fraking men are good looking with perfect bodies. I would expect people who don't fart around all day in offices and eat processed foods to be fit. it would be woefully inaccurate for the companions, Cullen and leliana to be fat and unfit. They eat better they are all people who do a significant amount of exercise many of whom have martial training which requires you to be more than just fit.

You know why video games don't show fatties as companions? Its because fatties couldn't possibly do the fighting and physical exertion required. My bloody beer gut would get me killed if i was on shepard's team about 20 minutes after the firefight started because I'd be exausted and reacting too slowly to live. I'd be dead even quicker in a medieval combat setting. So yeah heroic people doing heroic things kinda requires a default body of FIT. And a FIT body looks attractive.

As for the female faces have you even heard/read the flak bioware has gotten over josephine, Sera and Cassadra? They are not universally view as hot babes, some lunatic even goes on a youtube channel and claims there is proactive PCism that has either deliberatly or subconsciously resulted in ugly women in Inquisition. The very fact that there are people who think this way pretty much collapses your implied notion of the bioware making the women overly beautiful.

You want to talk about Bioware having more imaginary racial diversity fine but i think it is far more important for them to have minimal imaginary racial diversity and have more actual human racial diversity. But sure lets all get on Biowares case for not providing equal representation for made up races.

Video games are escapism, the cry of give us ugly in our escapism, is pretty much always going to fall flat, because most people of ALL genders dont want to watch ugly people when they are trying to escape the boredom of real life.

To people in general.

How about people just enjoy the game for what it is, a game which is in fact pretty damn good at being representative of the world we live in and far more inclusive than the norm. It seems like for some people the only response to bioware continued enlightenment of social issues is either criticism for not being enlightened sooner or criticism for them not being enlightened enough.

If the only response to enlightenment is further criticism how do people honestly think that will be recieved? Diversity by its very nature requires more content which cost more money. Do people honestly think that this kind of behaviour towards the company that is leading the way in the industry makes other companies go, "Hmm yes lets follow bioware's lead and move towards a more enlightened position which will cost us more money to implement just so we can get more bad press?"

Its time to give bioware a round of applause for moving in a direction that is inclusive and far more representative of the world's diversity then ever before in a AAA game. This is a good thing people not something we should be saying, "yeah but its not enough." Celebrate the victory today so that we can work LATER on the victories of tomorrow. Don't try to drown the very victory that has been won in the bathtube of toxic attitudes that they should have done more. The game is literally not out yet and people are sh!tting on its failure of not being more representative and inclusive.

To bioware

[Golf Clap]

All I can say is this is completely unnecessary and uncalled for. This is a feedback and suggestions forum for a reason. Feedback. Suggestions. Let that sink in.

No one here is putting down Dragon Age Inquisition or any if the franchises as a whole. Chances are if we did, we wouldn't be on FAN forums.

I've already praised Bioware for their steps towards inclusivity and actually caring about different groups. Not once have I ever criticized Bioware for the characters they have nor do I demand they be changed.

As fans of the lore and as fellow gamers we have a right to submit feedback and make recommendations. No one argued against fit or attractive characters. No one argued against human or whatever other race character. Asking for more variety isn't hate or complaining.

I've always been on the more moderate to reasonable leaning on the whole SJW spectrum. I'm not among the 'fandom' or the extremist fringes. But so far most of the critiques posted by many in this thread are perfectly valid, and I totally don't mind having them here.

So I ask politely that if there's no 'complaining about those complaining about attractiveness' and let's ease up on the SJW bashing. I don't agree with the extremist elements anymore than a lot of people, but no one who posted in this thread even remotely strikes that chord from what I read, and even so everyone's been pretty reasonable so far.

That said, I would like for us all to start giving more character ideas as Su Lu Pi, that way we can get some good ideas in

[DaySeeker]

I do think Inquisition does better than ever before at promoting more variations within the traditional attraction spectrum and getting away from too obvious "babe"ness. Still, there is no female character in a base game, like Oghren or The Iron Bull or Garrus or Wrex, that looks interesting but obviously unbeautiful. Shale is awesome. But that's really all there is. And I believe that's part of the reason why we don't have, say, a female Qunari companion and why if they do put one in, it will be hard on devs (make her sexy and pretty, and a part of the crowd will react as though she looks un-Qunari, and make her look like a hulking, brutish giant of a woman, similar to Iron Bull but female, and a part of the crowd will be angry with that depiction). The very fact that women who look less feminine - that even characters like Sera and Cassandra, who are still within a spectrum of objective beauty by most parameters even if they're less so than the traditional sexpot woman in games - are controversial is a massive problem worth discussing. Just shut up, every woman needs to be attractive, is not an attitude that helps anyone. 

 

As to men being attractive, there are usually a wider array of "looks" (as well as races) among men than women, including many that are not conventionally attractive. These have been cited in thread. Wynne is the only example I can think of, really, and that's only her age - she's clearly someone who was beautiful in her youth and very attractive for a woman her age. Even Tali who gets closest to the ideal is very human looking and way to supermodelized if you find the picture of her as male Shep. She has human skin, etc. (Shale is awesome, but she is DLC.)

 

 

 

Really? I don't really consider "beautiful people" (male or female) a necessity for a game or for my escapism. And anyway, as many have said, the cry is to give us the same interesting and varied looks as is available to males. Not ugly per se, but not ruling out ugly when it's interesting. 

 

And the "cry" was basically, "Here's a suggestion" until people stepped in with the whole, "Whoa, whoa, whoa...NOT beautiful? The women can't be not beautiful!?!?!" attitudes. 

 

 

Iron Bull is scarred. Garrus gets scarred. This is why scarring is mentioned. I also don't see why people who are battle-tested shouldn't occasionally be scarred. Why are you so opposed to women who are scarred? Does the Iron Bull bother you as much? Will you not use him because of his scars? 

 

The fact that you find it vindictive and are so very opposed to women who are objectively not beautiful (not in a "she's not pretty enough for me" way like how people fuss about Cassandra but in a way where the majority of people agree that the character is hulking or scarred or plain/homely in some way) says a lot about the problem, really. That's why people who want interesting and varied female looks, and for them to be as interesting and varied as male looks, need to keep talking. So our voice can be heard too. Personally, I don't care who is prettier than me. I don't factor into it at all. I do like when the women look just as cool and varied as the men, because that's interesting to me. That's more diversity. And that's where I hope Bioware is going. I'm not mad at them for not getting there yet; I'm just nudging them further in that direction. 

 

 

 

This is what I don't get. Nothing in this thread could be considered "hate." Pointing out, "Hey, most female companions are human, but male companions get a much wider array" isn't hate. It's a suggestion; it's feedback. I really didn't see any posts with hate or even anger in this thread - just a simple, "Hey I noticed this was not balanced well." 

 

I never said I was opposed to any of the characters. I like all of them.  Would I prefer Iron Bull without scars, yes, I would.  I don't think you can argue women need to be uglied up and then say you're not against attractive women.  Since attractiveness is subjective, and as stated MANY times, not everyone finds the females in this game attractive, it would seem one would have no point to argue, as it has already happened.  Since it has already happened; the women are not all conventionally attractive, or attractive in the same way you would have to be arguing they must become more hideous, which does seem vindictive, :Sorry, you're not ugly enough!"  "I find some part of you attractive, so you are forcing women to conform to unfair standards of beauty!"  I really don' know what you're arguing.  I am all for other races of women showing up.  I don't think we need to mutilate them though.  Why do you?

[Muspade]

Is this the thread where I kindly ask Bioware to make Velanna a companion once more?

Pretty please? 

[Gwydden]

I couldn't agree with you and OP more. As a woman, I kind of find it insulting that the only female companions I get are pretty humans, or at most an elf. Seriously, Merrill was the only nonhuman companion in the vanilla games.

No offense, but I think you may be too easily insulted.

Please branch out with the women. For one, they don't have to all the be human. For two, they don't have to all be gorgeous.

Subjective. If you were to ask me, I would only describe Leliana and Isabela as "gorgeous." I can kind of see how other people might consider Morrigan, Vivienne and Josephine to be so. But Merrill, Aveline, Sera, and Cassandra all look pretty average to me. Same with Sigrun, Velanna, and Tallis, really.

 

Now, that does not mean my opinion is supreme. It just means it's just my opinion. Same with yours.

I say give the next game the female equivalent of Iron Bull - purposefully homely FEMALE companion who is romanceable and has a LOT of character to back that sh** up.

It's a risk, but god someone needs to do it or we're doomed to human/elf princesses being spoonfed to certain players forever.

No, not really. Again, you're presenting a subjective opinion as fact. I don't think Iron Bull was ever intended to be "homely." About a "LOT of character," ah, that's yet to be seen. And yet again... subjective!

 

Also, I think you underestimate BioWare's audience with that dramatic "it's a risk," not to mention the condescending mention of "certain players."

 

As for more non-human females, I don't particularly care one way or the other. I guess I feel inclined to support it, if only for novelty's sake. As for diversity, I personally prefer more tangible, real life diversity, which we're getting this game anyway.

 

I do hope NME has more humans and less aliens as squadmates, but I fear that's a lost cause.