218 réponses à ce sujet

[RatThing]

That's what it always was. People give this "wanting to be different" aspect far too much importance. They (include L'Etoile himself) use this Pinocchio term to express how different ME2 approach on synthetics supposed to be because of it, and it's not. It's fundamentally the same.  

[Reorte]

The ME2 geth story is not a Pinocchio one, simple as that. A Pinocchio story is not one that looks at anything that's different. The "I want to be something other than I am" is what makes it one and sorry, that simply is not the case for the ME2 geth.

It sounds like Chris L'Etoile used it as an example of what ME2 was not and if so he's right. Pinocchio is about a desire for change, viewing himself as missing something everyone else has. That is compltely and utterly the opposite to the ME2 geth (but pretty much what they've been turned into in ME3).

[RatThing]

"Pinocchio" is simply a made up term people came up with to describe this aspect, unless you want to talk about the real Pinocchio story. I use this term to describe how unimportant this aspect is and how little effect it has on the core topic, especially if the narrative wants you to treat the robots as "real boys" nevertheless. Use this term as you wish, I'll continue to use it for "Robots becoming alive" themes. It's still fitting to me.

[ZipZap2000]

Not opposed to synthetic vs organic provided the enemy isn't on such a grand scale/we get to know them more intimately/it's not the be all and end all of the plot. Would also suggest the mention of it has bigger implications if this is a sequel.

 

Destroy canon inbound.

[TurianRebel212]

Well can't be much worse than these scrubs-

 

[Removed Images]

 

 

Bad news is that Mac "The Hack" Walters is "creative director" now.... So.... Yeah, just continue to lower my standards and maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

[Newnation]

I really don't mean to bash the Walters, but he kind of reminds me of Vince Russo. For those who don't know, Russo is a writer that wrote for the WWE (WWF back then), WCW, and TNA. He was also one of the contributing factors to WCW being bought out by the WWE. Russo had some great ideas but for every five amazing ideas he had, he had thirty more shitty ideas with them. He's also seriously out of touch. Some of the successes the WWF had in the mid and late 90's is due to his ideas and writing. However, Vince McMahon was also the person filtering out the very worst ideas.

 

I'm not worried about Chris Schlerf because I've heard nothing but good things about Halo 4.

 

[KaiserShep]

I don't see why a story involving robots having some parallel to Pinocchio would automatically be a bad thing. If the argument is that it's been done to death, the truth is that the same is true of the opposite as well, but I'd certainly not want robotic entities to disappear from science fiction altogether.

[RatThing]

What exactly would be the opposite of that? Skynet? I don't need synthetics in any form (even though the hostile technology can sometimes have it's appeal when it is well done).

[JeffZero]

I watched Halo 4 and rather enjoyed its writing. This fellow has a fan in me. Also, the rest of the writers will contribute greatly to the game. That's how it's always worked at BioWare. If you're worried there won't be any humor, for example, just remember that even if our new lead writer were somehow incapable of penning comic relief, there's bound to be someone on the team who can do the job. And will do the job. Because the role of lead writer isn't to write the most. In fact, oftentimes they write less. It's to coordinate, to lead. To unify a vision.

[KaiserShep]

What exactly would be the opposite of that? Skynet? I don't need synthetics in any form (even though the hostile technology can sometimes have it's appeal when it is well done).

 

Yes, any hostile synthetic force like Skynet would count. Admittedly, I'm a huge fan of the concept of artificial intelligence in science fiction, so I'd always want it to exist in sci-fi stories to some capacity (not all stories, obviously). Personally, I prefer the non-hostile route. I find this forum tends to be a bit hostile toward the idea in general, which actually makes me want it to have an even greater presence.

[RatThing]

Yes, any hostile synthetic force like Skynet would count. Admittedly, I'm a huge fan of the concept of artificial intelligence in science fiction, so I'd always want it to exist in sci-fi stories to some capacity (not all stories, obviously). Personally, I prefer the non-hostile route. I find this forum tends to be a bit hostile toward the idea in general, which actually makes me want it to have an even greater presence.

 

And there will be AI in ME next, I'm not naive. They declared this theme their holy grail, they won't let it go. I `d just hope that it doesn't become the main theme again. Ideally you should be able to bypass it completely, like a synthetic squadmate you don`t have to recruit or side missions you don`t have to do. If I could have bypassed the Rannoch arc I'd be so much more satisfied with Mass Effect 3.  

[SwobyJ]

 

There will be AI in the next Mass Effect. I'm sure of it. But imo it is only part of the bigger themes of the franchise.

 

 

 

....

 

 

N7 Master Commander John Shepard 117

[Reorte]

And there will be AI in ME next, I'm not naive. They declared this theme their holy grail, they won't let it go. I `d just hope that it doesn't become the main theme again. Ideally you should be able to bypass it completely, like a synthetic squadmate you don`t have to recruit or side missions you don`t have to do. If I could have bypassed the Rannoch arc I'd be so much more satisfied with Mass Effect 3.  

It was only shoved in our face as a main theme in the last ten minutes.

 

As for having AIs in general, may as well complain about having FTL transport (actually AIs are much more plausible since they don't break any laws of physics) and aliens. If your earlier post is trying to suggest that any story about AIs being more than dumb computers and being sapient is an issue, well, it's still not Pinocchio and it's an inevitable result of actually having AIs (as opposed to VIs).

[RatThing]

It was only shoved in our face as a main theme in the last ten minutes.

 

As for having AIs in general, may as well complain about having FTL transport (actually AIs are much more plausible since they don't break any laws of physics) and aliens. If your earlier post is trying to suggest that any story about AIs being more than dumb computers and being sapient is an issue, well, it's still not Pinocchio and it's an inevitable result of actually having AIs (as opposed to VIs).

 

AI's arent necessary in a story about exploring space, FTL travel is, how else would you get on distant planets. And when you're at it you might also find someone on these planets. And you really want to debate a made up term to death? Fine. Pinocchio -> a story about a piece of dead wood come to life and seeking an identity. AI -> stories about pieces of dead code chunks come to life and seeking identity. There`s the context. And based on that I'll continue to use that term, deal with it. I'm done discussing this one word. In the end it does't matter how I call it, since my point all along was that this whole "wanting to be different" thing doesn't make it a different or a better story and it still stands.

[cap and gown]

Here is my fear: Mac feels compelled to justify the ending of ME3 by the themes he chooses to emphasize in ME4. I doubt ME4 will have anything to do with the trilogy plot wise, but I fear that thematically it may be meant to justify the ending of the trilogy.

[Reorte]

As I keep having to point out the Pinocchio theme is entirely about a desire to be something else. The geth aren't even seeking identity (ME2, not ME3). They're not wanting to be different. They're just what they are. Your issue with this is strange, to say the least - at least if we're talking them in general (or ME2) and not ME3 - in ME3 I mostly agree with your objections. You seem to be objecting to having story arcs involving them in general though, even though they were merely a side-issue part of the setting (whatever the ending tried to claim to the contrary).

FTL is no more an inevitable part of science fiction than AIs. Other worlds can be worlds in our solar system, they can be worlds already reached at the time of the start of the story. Even when FTL exists aliens aren't an inevitable part. AI is, however, one of the more likely results of technological advance so based on our current knowledge it would be a strange thing to totally ignore.

[Excella Gionne]

Now it's gonna be like Halo. I'm so disappointed...

[RatThing]

As I keep having to point out the Pinocchio theme is entirely about a desire to be something else. The geth aren't even seeking identity (ME2, not ME3). They're not wanting to be different. They're just what they are. Your issue with this is strange, to say the least - at least if we're talking them in general (or ME2) and not ME3 - in ME3 I mostly agree with your objections. You seem to be objecting to having story arcs involving them in general though, even though they were merely a side-issue part of the setting (whatever the ending tried to claim to the contrary).

FTL is no more an inevitable part of science fiction than AIs. Other worlds can be worlds in our solar system, they can be worlds already reached at the time of the start of the story. Even when FTL exists aliens aren't an inevitable part. AI is, however, one of the more likely results of technological advance so based on our current knowledge it would be a strange thing to totally ignore.

 

A ) What you point out is completely irrelevant. Unless you give me the Oxford dictionary definition of "Pinocchio theme" I'll keep using it my way since as I keep having to point out it is a made up expression.

 

B ) Yes, I'd rather not have AI's in my stories in general. I couldn't care less if you find that strange or not.

 

C ) You can have stories about space exploration, and you can have stories about Pinocchio robots. The former does't need AI's like the latter doesn't need FTL. I started playing Mass Effect because of the exploration part, If I'd wanted the other thing I'd read the Assimov books. And computer programs suddenly becoming alive is not more likely than FTL.

[Reorte]

So really all you're saying is that "I don't like AIs". That didn't require an inaccurate comparison with another story. From now on I'll call it the Robinson Crusoe theme. Or maybe I won't, since that's not terribly meaningful either.

Considering that there's nothing in the laws of physics that prevents AIs but there is when it comes to FTL then the former is considerably more likely. Space exploration does not need FTL although it's a great deal easier with it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

A ) What you point out is completely irrelevant. Unless you give me the Oxford dictionary definition of "Pinocchio theme" I'll keep using it my way since as I keep having to point out it is a made up expression.

 

B ) Yes, I'd rather not have AI's in my stories in general. I couldn't care less if you find that strange or not.

 

C ) You can have stories about space exploration, and you can have stories about Pinocchio robots. The former does't need AI's like the latter doesn't need FTL. I started playing Mass Effect because of the exploration part, If I'd wanted the other thing I'd read the Assimov books. And computer programs suddenly becoming alive is not more likely than FTL.

 

AI being alive is a matter of philosophy. FTL is a matter of physics.

 

You can stomp your feet all you want but there is no absolute law that forbids AI from some how being alive, it's merely an opinion. Faster than light speed, on the other hand, is something else.

[KaiserShep]

FTL is just a basic part of the universe so it's not really the same thing anyway. Might as well make a story about the skycars or something.

Whatever, we're at the writers' mercy, so all we can do is deal with it, primitives.

[RatThing]

So really all you're saying is that "I don't like AIs". That didn't require an inaccurate comparison with another story. From now on I'll call it the Robinson Crusoe theme. Or maybe I won't, since that's not terribly meaningful either.

Considering that there's nothing in the laws of physics that prevents AIs but there is when it comes to FTL then the former is considerably more likely. Space exploration does not need FTL although it's a great deal easier with it.

If you can have a good exploration story without FTL I'm all open for this. I didn't say I absolutely need FTL in my stories, you came up with this. And inaccurate comparison? I gave you the context. You ignoring it is not my problem. As I said, I`m done discussing this term.

[RatThing]

AI being alive is a matter of philosophy. FTL is a matter of physics.

 

You can stomp your feet all you want but there is no absolute law that forbids AI from some how being alive, it's merely an opinion. Faster than light speed, on the other hand, is something else.

 

To date there is no theoretical concept that could explain the technology described in those stories. The models we use today for AI research aren't nearly capable enough to achieve this level of information processing. That's why there's never a good explanation for why all of a sudden those things become self aware. As long as that`s the case I'd say it's impossible.  I'm not alone with this opinion.

 

http://www.newscient...ml#.VGAFfsnPeBI

[Reorte]

If you want people to understand your points then pick a good example instead of something misleading and having to go to set the context contary to that. So your problem.

You said "AI's arent necessary in a story about exploring space, FTL travel is" which pretty much says you thought that it was necessary for your exploration stories.

[RatThing]

If you want people to understand your points then pick a good example instead of something misleading and having to go to set the context contary to that. So your problem.

You said "AI's arent necessary in a story about exploring space, FTL travel is" which pretty much says you thought that it was necessary for your exploration stories.

 

Why should it be relevant to me what you consider a good example?  I'd say it was pretty clear what I meant. FTL? Yeah, my bad. Should have said that it is necessary for extrasolar exploration stories like Mass Effect. You couldn't have Mass Effect without FTL, but you could have Mass Effect without the Geth.