W
nope when she began the statement "it's cold in my tent....." there is an option to refuse without lose the romance flag the statement "we are not exactly alone"
Why did my PC could not let her be alone in her tent when he was with Leliana and Zevran. Also if you romance her you kinds soften her up.
Avernus wouldn't be able to make it to Denerim and Riordan was already there. There is no actual betrayal because Morrigan never swore allegiance to begin with. The fact that people expect everyone to be upfront with everything, without even asking I might add, is surprising. If you want to blame anyone, blame Alistair for not knowing after half a year of being in the Wardens.
Avernus wouldn't be able to make it to Denerim and Riordan was already there. There is no actual betrayal because Morrigan never swore allegiance to begin with. The fact that people expect everyone to be upfront with everything, without even asking I might add, is surprising. If you want to blame anyone, blame Alistair for not knowing after half a year of being in the Wardens.
Some people are just making excuses to hate Morrigan and I agree with everything that you said.
That's the funny thing about Morrigan - there was no chance for her to betray me - because I knew she was a manipulative lying ****** from day one who only traveled with me at the behest of her manipulative lying ****** "mother".
Though it did make me incredibly pleased that Flemeth was impressed that I refused to play her or Morrigan's game.
That being said - my Main Warden designed for Inquisition put a normal baby in Morrigan (he killed off Alistair so he could take the throne with Anora without worrying about claims on the throne).
You had to have a child with her if you romanced her, either normal or ogb. But I recall a dev mentioning being able to see a softer side of Morrigan in Inquisition in general.Its possible but I think the Devs said something to the effect of her having a bit more of a softer side if you had a child with her be it OBG or human .
Avernus wouldn't be able to make it to Denerim and Riordan was already there. There is no actual betrayal because Morrigan never swore allegiance to begin with. The fact that people expect everyone to be upfront with everything, without even asking I might add, is surprising. If you want to blame anyone, blame Alistair for not knowing after half a year of being in the Wardens.
Whiney and not telepathic to boot - Alistair is obviously to blame.
But seriously, not mentioning that to succeed at your goal you will have to sacrifice your own life or someone else's, is in no way a bit lax in the friendship/trust department? I'd have thought that warnings of the possibility of death would be necessary to meet some kind of minimum standard.
That's the funny thing about Morrigan - there was no chance for her to betray me - because I knew she was a manipulative lying ****** from day one who only traveled with me at the behest of her manipulative lying ****** "mother".
Though it did make me incredibly pleased that Flemeth was impressed that I refused to play her or Morrigan's game.
That being said - my Main Warden designed for Inquisition put a normal baby in Morrigan (he killed off Alistair so he could take the throne with Anora without worrying about claims on the throne).
Did Alistair not swear off his claim to the throne in front of the landsmeet though?
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
I'm not sure why there weren't harden Alistair/Leliana choices
They've streamlined it by tying it to the Goldanna and Marjolaine choices. I know meeting Goldanna or killing Marjolaine didn't automatically result in steeling the characters, but that's how they chose to address it in the Keep.
Whiney and not telepathic to boot - Alistair is obviously to blame.
That's totally what I said.
But seriously, not mentioning that to succeed at your goal you will have to sacrifice your own life or someone else's, is in no way a bit lax in the friendship/trust department? I'd have thought that warnings of the possibility of death would be necessary to meet some kind of minimum standard.
It is. What does that have to do with being "betrayed?" You think everyone, or anyone, should care about how you feel? You'll always feel "betrayed" then. Her telling you is of no consequence, like literally none. It would not change anything, and she tells you their is a way out, which is really the only time this way out would work anyway.
They've streamlined it by tying it to the Goldanna and Marjolaine choices. I know meeting Goldanna or killing Marjolaine didn't automatically result in steeling the characters, but that's how they chose to address it in the Keep.
Not true. Marjolaine isn't dead in the default world state of DA:O, but she is dead in the default world state overall. Marjolaine dies no matter what, so really, I think they'll just present whatever Leliana and Alistair they want to. They always have before.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Not true. Marjolaine isn't dead in the default world state of DA:O, but she is dead in the default world state overall. Marjolaine dies no matter what, so really, I think they'll just present whatever Leliana and Alistair they want to. They always have before.
That's what the developers said in a twitch stream. I know, I've watched them all...
I'm always going to take what they say with a grain of salt until I see it. Honestly I doubt "hardening" will matter when they have to write two versions of optional characters for every game. Leliana less optional of course.
Looking forward to seeing her again. Still sad that the Warden isn't in it, but happy that she has somewhat become more human, I imagine having a baby will do that to a person.
Seems pretty human to me.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
I'm always going to take what they say with a grain of salt until I see it. Honestly I doubt "hardening" will matter when they have to write two versions of optional characters for every game. Leliana less optional of course.
Smart. Maybe a throwaway line. Maybe nothing.
Spoiler
Seems pretty human to me.
There's an air of civility to her honesty. That's why I like her.
That's totally what I said.
It is. What does that have to do with being "betrayed?" You think everyone, or anyone, should care about how you feel? You'll always feel "betrayed" then. Her telling you is of no consequence, like literally none. It would not change anything, and she tells you their is a way out, which is really the only time this way out would work anyway.
It can be seen as betrayal in a sense because she keeps this life-or-death information from your pc because it serves her purposes. Is that not some kind of breech of trust? She doesn't tell you until the last possible moment because it's the best circumstances in which you will agree. She doesn't want to give you much time to think about it. If it's such a unquestionably marvellous idea, she's got nothing to lose by teling you up front as she? Instead she waits until you are facing the hoard and the archdemon with just 3 wardens and have just found out the truth from someone else.
I think a pc could feel justified in feeling manipulated.
It does have possible consequences - even if your pc didn't care that they had to die to end the blight and still chose to remain in Ferelden, which I admit is the noble choice (although Morrigan herself would not advocate it of course, outside of her own purposes, she doesn't do noble much), knowing how the blight is defeated would reveal just how long the odds of success are. Your pc might have made different choices. Might, for example, wait to face the archdemon with a full army of wardens.
I'm not saying you have to see it like that. But I'd expect a "friend" to tell me such important info, whether she could imagine it would make a difference or not really.
You can harden Alistair in the keep by making him king while recruiting Loghain. Only an hardened Alistair accepts that outcome. As for Leliana, I have no idea, but I think hardening her personality should have been an considered option, since it would add to her character in Inquisition, were in certain situations, Leliana would more cold and calculating or soft, depending on the warden choices.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
It can be seen as betrayal in a sense because she keeps this life-or-death information from your pc because it serves her purposes. Is that not some kind of breech of trust? She doesn't tell you until the last possible moment because it's the best circumstances in which you will agree. She doesn't want to give you much time to think about it. If it's such a unquestionably marvellous idea, she's got nothing to lose by teling you up front as she? Instead she waits until you are facing the hoard and the archdemon with just 3 wardens and have just found out the truth from someone else.
I think a pc could feel justified in feeling manipulated.
It does have possible consequences - even if your pc didn't care that they had to die to end the blight and still chose to remain in Ferelden, which I admit is the noble choice (although Morrigan herself would not advocate it of course, outside of her own purposes, she doesn't do noble much), knowing how the blight is defeated would reveal just how long the odds of success are. Your pc might have made different choices. Might, for example, wait to face the archdemon with a full army of wardens.
I'm not saying you have to see it like that. But I'd expect a "friend" to tell me such important info, whether she could imagine it would make a difference or not really.
An even trade. The only person that's killed more enemies in my games than Morrigan is the Warden. She can't do much if you leave her at camp after you write her off as a manipulative ******.
Anyway. If you play WH with a romanced Morrigan, but the denied her the DR she implies it was a mistake on the Warden's part. How many people are going to go back to the Keep and change that decision when it's revealed that baby Urthemiel is 'the Chosen One' or some ****?
There's an air of civility to her honesty. That's why I like her.
And she's matured so much in the past few years. 
An even trade. The only person that's killed more enemies in my games than Morrigan is the Warden. She can't do much if you leave her at camp after you write her off as a manipulative ******.
Anyway. If you play WH with a romanced Morrigan, but the denied her the DR she implies it was a mistake on the Warden's part. How many people are going to go back to the Keep and change that decision when it's revealed that baby Urthemiel is 'the Chosen One' or some ****?
I leave her that the camp because Wynne is way too useful to leave behind. If health potions were not so difficult to stack up, Morrigan would be used much more often.
And I think there it comes the point of debate. If denying her ritual was such an mistake, then why didn't she told you why she wanted the child so badly? People usually don't keep an secret unless it's an dirty one. I did the ritual but I still don't trust it. And if it bites me in the ass, then I'll just go back in the Keep and have Loghain sacrifice himself. Morrigan was romanced in my game so she sires an child either way.
An even trade. The only person that's killed more enemies in my games than Morrigan is the Warden. She can't do much if you leave her at camp after you write her off as a manipulative ******.
Anyway. If you play WH with a romanced Morrigan, but the denied her the DR she implies it was a mistake on the Warden's part. How many people are going to go back to the Keep and change that decision when it's revealed that baby Urthemiel is 'the Chosen One' or some ****?
Of course she'll imply it's a mistake. Whatever she had planned, she sees it as ultimately desiriable. Were you expecting her to say, "Yeah you were right, it was a bad idea, good call on your part, I'm evil don't you know LOL"?
I don't think putting gods among men is ever a good idea. Still, curious to what the devs intend to do with the decision...
Just a couple of thoughts on Morrigan
-There's no reason for Morrigan to assume that neither Alistar or the Warden did not know a Grey Warden must die in order to slay the Arch Demon. Yes, she clearly with held her plans, but I don't see that as any different than Leliana hiding her past. Just like some people wouldn't want Morrigan around if that was her plan, some people may not want to collect assassins. At least Zevran was a known assassin, but Leliana lied just as much as Morrigan.
-If you believe Morrigan is evil, then clearly, you didn't do her story arc. She's selfish, unsociable and has a very cynical view of the world (all of which she admits), but none of these make you evil. Despite her being anti-chantry, when you threaten the priestest in order to free Sten, she clearly disapproves. There are also a few other senseless cruelty acts that show, that evil is an incorrect attempt to simplify Morrigan.
-And if you actually see the romance through, you see that she is capable of love and isn't the monster that many players make her out to be.
They've streamlined it by tying it to the Goldanna and Marjolaine choices. I know meeting Goldanna or killing Marjolaine didn't automatically result in steeling the characters, but that's how they chose to address it in the Keep.
Really? Huh.
Just a couple of thoughts on Morrigan
-There's no reason for Morrigan to assume that neither Alistar or the Warden did not know a Grey Warden must die in order to slay the Arch Demon. Yes, she clearly with held her plans, but I don't see that as any different than Leliana hiding her past. Just like some people wouldn't want Morrigan around if that was her plan, some people may not want to collect assassins. At least Zevran was a known assassin, but Leliana lied just as much as Morrigan.
-If you believe Morrigan is evil, then clearly, you didn't do her story arc. She's selfish, unsociable and has a very cynical view of the world (all of which she admits), but none of these make you evil. Despite her being anti-chantry, when you threaten the priestest in order to free Sten, she clearly disapproves. There are also a few other senseless cruelty acts that show, that evil is an incorrect attempt to simplify Morrigan.
-And if you actually see the romance through, you see that she is capable of love and isn't the monster that many players make her out to be.
Lelianna lying about her past isn't really a big deal compared to the pc's future impending destruction by archdemon though.
She does know that the wardens don't know - but to be fair the most clear demonstration of this I remember is a romance banter between Alistair and Morrigan where she's clearly probing him to see what he knows - so many might not have heard it. And, only when I heard it again after the DR convo I realised its full significance. There is also that line in the ritual conversation itself "why didn't you tell me" or something - which I think refers to the archdemon death situation. I'm sure there are others, but I can't recall detail (I do wonder if she's testing you to see what your reaction is with her "if there is one thing I have learnt, is that one must survive" convo)
I thought you got disapproval from Alistair for threatening the Reverend Mother? I thought Morrigan approves? I could be mis-remembering. Morrigan does approve of you tormenting that poor dalish elf about his dead wife though, I discovered very recently. I mean really, Morrigan!
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