165 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

From an artistic integrity point of view a pre/mid/interquel is the only option. The ME3 ending was all about salting the earth, a sequel would completely destroy the artistic intent (as obnoxious as it was). Likewise an alternative galaxy which somehow developed completely unlike how the starchild said it should develop would completely destroy the artistic intent (as obnoxious as it was).

 

Artistic integrity demands making a game most of us don't want.

 

I don't really agree.

 

The Starchild believed that synthetics would always kill organics, it doesn't make it true. The fact that BW won't let us disprove him with the geth/quarian peace is maddening and ridiculous, but it doesn't mean that they can never introduce a galaxy where synthetics haven't risen up in rebellion.

 

If ME Next does take place in a new galaxy, and they do have synthetics that haven't become crazy, it doesn't make Control or Synthesis any less valid as ending choices for players that wanted that galaxy. It would just prove that the Starchild is wrong - which many players think now anyway.

 

(The artistic intent behind the ending was surely never to imply that synthetics will always rebel. I don't know what the hell it was, but it wasn't that. The game goes out of its way to make EDI sympathetic and then tells us the geth and quarians can be best of friends.)

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Anyone remember these?

 

 

 

It looks like those that I dare to call(and some other people) Stone Giants, are from those places

 

Edit: Fixed Image 1 link

Edit 2: For those that don't remember, it's from N7 Day 2013

[Kabooooom]

Who said the rest of the galaxy would have to know about the new species?




And keep in mind other than Shepard and crew, the rest of the beings who reside in the MEU have no idea the Reapers are coming or even what a Reaper is. The few that have heard of them consider them nothing but a myth.

I meant that the story itself would feel overshadowed by the Reapers from the perspective of the player. I thought that was obvious. Sorry if my wording was ambiguous.

As for the rest of the galaxy being unaware of the discovery of a new hyper advanced race - the only way this could occur would be a true "stranger in a strange land" story in which a new relay is opened and the entire story takes place stranded beyond it. And that scenario creates problems of its own, does it not? It would feel incredibly strained and forced.

[Mcfly616]

It will be much more difficult to do a sequel than something already set within the universe we have come to know. It seems the only case being made by sequel enthusiasts against something set in the current timeline is: "oh the Reapers are still coming". Doesn't hold water.

 

 

 

If they were to create a sequel, they have 3 universes to implement or to choose from (canonize), along with all the consequences that come with them. This is a much bigger problem than anything set before the Reaper invasion would present.

[ElitePinecone]

It will be much more difficult to do a sequel than something already set within the universe we have come to know. It seems the only case being made by sequel enthusiasts against something set in the current timeline is: "oh the Reapers are still coming". Doesn't hold water.

 

It's a sequel.

 

I have no idea why people are even still arguing about this. 

 

Go back to Casey's message at E3 this year, he says when they looked at fan feedback what people wanted was to "move forward" and "go somewhere new". Moving forward is code for "taking place after ME3".

 

(And if you're not convinced, the feedback he mentions here is this tweet - where he asked if people wanted something set before or after the trilogy.)

 

Frankly, with how much bitterness some people still have about the Reapers and the way ME3 ended, the only thing they can do is to go somewhere totally new. Anything set before Shepard would have the Reapers and the war hanging over everything, and that is a problem for many people.

 

I was totally against a sequel if it meant ignoring or downplaying or retconning what happened in Shepard's trilogy, and I still am. But it's downright silly at this point to pretend that the game isn't set after ME3, because it is.

[Kabooooom]

It will be much more difficult to do a sequel than something already set within the universe we have come to know. It seems the only case being made by sequel enthusiasts against something set in the current timeline is: "oh the Reapers are still coming". Doesn't hold water.



If they were to create a sequel, they have 3 universes to implement or to choose from (canonize), along with all the consequences that come with them. This is a much bigger problem than anything set before the Reaper invasion would present.

I agree, that's why I think it is clear that they will either choose a midiquel or a "sequel" - with BOTH somehow completely disconnected from the prior trilogy entirely. I was one of the first people here to predict a "stranger in a strange land" scenario, as it is truly the most predictable and effective route they could take.

But by completely disconnected, I mean completely. I don't think we will revisit anywhere from the prior trilogy at all. I do think it would feel somewhat forced, and I wasn't using that as an argument that they wont do it - I think they will. It's pretty much the only way out of the hole they wrote themselves in.

[PinkysPain]

 

The artistic intent behind the ending was surely never to imply that synthetics will always rebel.

 

I think it mostly was, the artistic intent was for the choice to be meaningful ... not to be some harm minimizing way in the choice of your terms of surrender to an insane brat. As poor the decisions of McCasey were, I don't think they ever intended that latter interpretation. Because that would just be an insane way to end the game.

 

Now we have come to the conclusion that that insanity is the only reasonable interpretation of the events in the game, but I don't think they have as of yet.

[ElitePinecone]

It is meaningful, though?

 

You're still deciding the fate of an entire galaxy and everyone we've ever met inside of it. You're still getting to decide the fate of entire species, or control the Reapers, or merge everyone into a weird techno-singularity utopia with glowy green space magic. The fact that these choices are given to you by an insane space brat is irrelevant, because they're the only choices that you can make, period. (As in, they're the only choices that Shepard can make, and the only choices the player can make to move forward.)

 

Maybe one day Mac or Casey will open up and talk about what they wanted to achieve with the writing, but to me it was always obvious that this was about giving the player the opportunity to decide the future of the galaxy in a way that aligns with their own philosophy and opinion of synthetics. The fact that the choices came about through the Catalyst and Crucible is nearly irrelevant, because they were just a vehicle to give the player that choice.

 

It was a choice that, as we know from Geoff Keighley's Final Hours of ME3, they never intended to take into another game. ME3 was to be the chronological endpoint of the series, so its ending was about the most meaningful thing in the entire trilogy - it changes everything, forever.

 

Setting ME Next in another galaxy doesn't diminish the magnitude of the choice that Shepard had to make, which irrevocably changed the Milky Way. We just probably won't ever see the Milky Way again, in that scenario.

[Cheviot]

I think it mostly was, the artistic intent was for the choice to be meaningful ... not to be some harm minimizing way in the choice of your terms of surrender to an insane brat.

Why would that ever be the "artistic intent" when the choice the Catalyst offers is exactly the opposite, i.e. his terms of surrender to Shepard?

[fyz306903]

(The artistic intent behind the ending was surely never to imply that synthetics will always rebel. I don't know what the hell it was, but it wasn't that. The game goes out of its way to make EDI sympathetic and then tells us the geth and quarians can be best of friends.)

Let's me say straight off that resolving the Geth-Quarian conflict was my favourite part of the ME trilogy, hell, gaming as a whole and the fact that I couldn't destroy the reapers with out destroying all synthetics (cos they're all evil, duh) pissed me off big time.

BUT the thing that really worries me is that although these two events in ME3 are completely contradictory, Bioware could just as easily retcon the 'synthetics are fine as long as you don't hate and try to kill them all the time' idea as the 'all synthetics are evil and all try to kill organics cos they just do' idea.

If ME4 is centred around the former idea rather than the later, I'll probably hate it. But, then again, they could simply never address the issue again, which, in a way would be even more annoying. 

[Tonymac]

Isn't that like the distance between the Sun and the Earth? It's kind of... big.

Anyway, I think I mentioned this on this topic is some way but one thing that I like about the Mass Effect universe is that its technology is familiar. Pick weapons for example. They got crazier as the trilogy evolved, but their basics are not different from what we have today. Pistols, assault rifles, shotguns, etc... and that is something I would change a bit for the next game. Make civilizations more evolved, more able to manipualte the universe, able to built huge space stations. I want to see jaw dropping feats of engineering like space elevators (which I believe were in the original trilogy but we never saw one) and the likes. So there would be no need for a super boss enemy like the repaers, let make the next Mass Effect just about the people there are there.

In other words: I want the glory of space, but I also want the glory of civilization. 

 

Very perceptive!  Ringworld was huge and amazingly fantastic.  Its idea has been stolen a few times *cough*  Halo *cough, cough* but Halo rings were tiny in comparison.  If I may suggest it, you might consider reading the book - which is only one is a pretty fun series.

 

Mass Effect could certainly go in the directions you suggest.  Implementing ME technologies into everyday life would be different for each species  - adding distinct differences and unlimited possibilities.  I'm not suggesting that the writers steal ideas from Niven, but they could certainly pick up some of the essence.  One of the things that I really enjoyed about ME was exploration - and that was integral to Niven's writing.  (That's not really even supposed to be a reference to The Integral Trees, but any fan will pick up on it.)  

 

Exploration of wonderful huge artifacts just seems to draw me in - much like exploration in ME1 did.  The Twitch TV on N7 day had one pic that was huge pyramids - looked really interesting.  The fact that the Reapers cleaned shop after each cycle will leave us with scant little.  Perhaps a few civilizations went extinct prior to the invasion, and the Reapers would have little reason to explore their ruins.  Assuming that no previous species went in and picked it all clean, then we might have a shot at exploring them.  Perhaps we just have to be smart enough to get past the automated defences .....   who knows, there are too many possibilities.

 

I like your ideas - perhaps BioWare will pick up on them.  We can only hope.

[SNascimento]

Very perceptive!  Ringworld was huge and amazingly fantastic.  Its idea has been stolen a few times *cough*  Halo *cough, cough* but Halo rings were tiny in comparison.  If I may suggest it, you might consider reading the book - which is only one is a pretty fun series.

 

Mass Effect could certainly go in the directions you suggest.  Implementing ME technologies into everyday life would be different for each species  - adding distinct differences and unlimited possibilities.  I'm not suggesting that the writers steal ideas from Niven, but they could certainly pick up some of the essence.  One of the things that I really enjoyed about ME was exploration - and that was integral to Niven's writing.  (That's not really even supposed to be a reference to The Integral Trees, but any fan will pick up on it.)  

 

Exploration of wonderful huge artifacts just seems to draw me in - much like exploration in ME1 did.  The Twitch TV on N7 day had one pic that was huge pyramids - looked really interesting.  The fact that the Reapers cleaned shop after each cycle will leave us with scant little.  Perhaps a few civilizations went extinct prior to the invasion, and the Reapers would have little reason to explore their ruins.  Assuming that no previous species went in and picked it all clean, then we might have a shot at exploring them.  Perhaps we just have to be smart enough to get past the automated defences .....   who knows, there are too many possibilities.

I have to say, the portfolio of sci-fi books that I have read is really small. It's actually limited to one: Brave New World. And science fiction isn't really what it's about. It's been a while since I want to read the Foundations series by Asimov and that's is bound to happen sooner or latter. After that I'll pick this book you're recommending.

And exploring truly is great. It was cool in ME1, but it can be so, so much more. From the stream it seems they are working it planet as a unique environment and that's the way to go. I liked what I listened there and I hope they can show space as magically as it is. 
 

I like your ideas - perhaps BioWare will pick up on them.  We can only hope.

Gratitude. I hope they do that too! 

[ElitePinecone]

If ME4 is centred around the former idea rather than the later, I'll probably hate it. But, then again, they could simply never address the issue again, which, in a way would be even more annoying. 

 

I think/hope that they'll just drop the entire idea of synthetics vs organics and move on to something else. It's a theme that was done to death in ME3, I think a lot of fans are openly hostile about it because of the endings, and it did seem to be very particularly tied to the Reapers.

 

Mac talked about it in the past tense as being a major theme in Shepard's trilogy (lol), but that suggested to me that they're going for something else in this game.

 

If I had to guess, based on early rumours, it'll be something about first contact with new alien civilisations and space exploration, which almost harks back to the first game.

[Nohvarr]

A little over a year ago I began considering ways to continue the ME storyline from what was shown in the third game. This is what I came up with:

 

I'd actually suggest pushing forward by a few hundred years. Galactic society has recovered and with the new tech we've found a way to cross the vast galactic gulf between galaxies. You are a member (Possibly second in command) of the Second expedition to another galaxy. Contact was lost with the first mission, so this is part research part rescue op. To that end, instead of having one massive ship, you are at the head of a research "fleet"

The choices you made in the first ME series will dictate the make-up of your fleet (ships and personnel) as well as their back story. Paragon's who choose control will actually have their new avatar chosen for their mission by Reaper!Shepard. The game would literally open with you standing on a platform in the Rebuilt Citadel while Reapard descends to greet you and begins talking with you about his/her hopes for the mission he/she is sending you on (tone and personality wise think The Bentusi from Homeworld).

Your first available companion will be determined by who Shepard Romanced throughout the games. For example with Miranda, Jack, Ash, Tarynor and Kelly lead to your companion being Shepard's Great Great grand kid, and looks something like their grand mother but has a very different Personality (Jack's spawn is a no nonsense lady of war with a rod up her rear, Ash's kid is a brilliant scientist and detective with Sherlock habits etc. Romancing Liara would lead to your companion being Shepard's daughter though she's nearing her Matron phase.

Other companions would only be available if you made certain choices in the past games, that said there will be a number of them you'll get no matter what but their backgrounds and personalities change a bit based on the previous games. Afterall, one Turian companion may HATE a Renegade Reaper Shepard but absolutely love Paragon Reapard.

The games opening would be heavily influence by previous games, but since you are traveling to a new galaxy I don't have to worry as much about showing the impact of those decisions throughout the entire adventure. I can show you vastly different beginnings and have that flavor sprinkled through the future adventure but then focus on a new setting with new aliens, technologies, dangers and wonders.

Also you get an origin you can pick and one determined by past deicions. Example: Synthesis ending, Paragon + Grissom Academy Graduate. You are on a research mission through a previously un explored Relay. You run into hostil flora and Fauna, your actions in saving your remaining team cause you to get notice by the people planning the mission to another galaxy.

Control, Paragon + Spectre
You've already proven yourself as a Spectre but Reapard saw something in you, something 'The Protector' as her or she is commonly known felt was needed on this mission beyond the galactic rim.

 

That was my thinking on the subject anyways.

[Kabooooom]

Very perceptive! Ringworld was huge and amazingly fantastic. Its idea has been stolen a few times *cough* Halo *cough, cough* but Halo rings were tiny in comparison. If I may suggest it, you might consider reading the book - which is only one is a pretty fun series.

Mass Effect could certainly go in the directions you suggest. Implementing ME technologies into everyday life would be different for each species - adding distinct differences and unlimited possibilities. I'm not suggesting that the writers steal ideas from Niven, but they could certainly pick up some of the essence. One of the things that I really enjoyed about ME was exploration - and that was integral to Niven's writing. (That's not really even supposed to be a reference to The Integral Trees, but any fan will pick up on it.)

Exploration of wonderful huge artifacts just seems to draw me in - much like exploration in ME1 did. The Twitch TV on N7 day had one pic that was huge pyramids - looked really interesting. The fact that the Reapers cleaned shop after each cycle will leave us with scant little. Perhaps a few civilizations went extinct prior to the invasion, and the Reapers would have little reason to explore their ruins. Assuming that no previous species went in and picked it all clean, then we might have a shot at exploring them. Perhaps we just have to be smart enough to get past the automated defences ..... who knows, there are too many possibilities.

I like your ideas - perhaps BioWare will pick up on them. We can only hope.

They kept calling the pyramid image a "tomb". My guess is, you discover these tombs, explore them, then realize their inhabitants aren't really dead after all - they reawaken from a long sleep (hiding from the Reapers?), and then threaten the galaxy.

[Drone223]

I still think it will take place outside the Milky Way, for exactly the reason you mentioned later in your post - the endings are canon, they aren't going away, and they affect our galaxy far too much to ever be accurately represented in a later game.

 

There's no way they can show the consequences of Destroy/Control/Synthesis, let alone all the other choices we could make involving the geth/quarians/krogan. Casey said that originally they were never going to set anything after ME3 - if they are doing that now, it means they had to come up with a way to deal with the endings.

 

Plus they've already said it takes place in "a whole new region of space", and that there's a feeling of being a stranger in a strange land.

If the next game takes place in another galaxy they may as well make refuse canon or just start a new IP instead. Since everything Shepard did to save the galaxy means nothing since and we'll never be able to experience a reaper free galaxy. And on top of that its completely unnecessary 99% of the galaxy is unexplored there is still a lot left to explore.

[fyz306903]

I think/hope that they'll just drop the entire idea of synthetics vs organics and move on to something else. It's a theme that was done to death in ME3, I think a lot of fans are openly hostile about it because of the endings, and it did seem to be very particularly tied to the Reapers.

 

Mac talked about it in the past tense as being a major theme in Shepard's trilogy (lol), but that suggested to me that they're going for something else in this game.

 

 

Yeah, I suppose they will. Still, I really liked the Legion character, so I'd love synthetics to be in ME4, especially if we don't have the synthetic=organic conflict idea rubbed in our faces. Also, I really hope the Geth and Quarians) return as allies, but I suppose it's doubtful.

[Kabooooom]

If the next game takes place in another galaxy they may as well make refuse canon or just start a new IP instead. Since everything Shepard did to save the galaxy means nothing since and we'll never be able to experience a reaper free galaxy. And on top of that its completely unnecessary 99% of the galaxy is unexplored there is still a lot left to explore.

Not all of the galaxy is linked by the relay network though. Realistically, the network only covers probably around 1% of the galaxy both directly via relay star systems and indirectly via FTL travel from a given relay system. So while a lot of the galaxy is unexplored, much is untouchable without doing away with the relay network, and that which is reachable is directly connected to the network.

I've said this to you before, but I think you're going to be very disappointed in ME4 with these expectations that you have. Whether it takes place in another galaxy or some corner of the Milky Way, we most likely will not be returning to anywhere we visited in prior games. Or, alternatively, we will but because of a midiquel timeline we wont see the outcome of Shep's choices.

Either way, I think it is like 99% probable that they will avoid the endings of the prior trilogy like a plague.

[Drone223]

Not all of the galaxy is linked by the relay network though. Realistically, the network only covers probably around 1% of the galaxy both directly via relay star systems and indirectly via FTL travel from a given relay system. So while a lot of the galaxy is unexplored, much is untouchable without doing away with the relay network, and that which is reachable is directly connected to the network.

I've said this to you before, but I think you're going to be very disappointed in ME4 with these expectations that you have. Whether it takes place in another galaxy or some corner of the Milky Way, we most likely will not be returning to anywhere we visited in prior games. Or, alternatively, we will but because of a midiquel timeline we wont see the outcome of Shep's choices.

Either way, I think it is like 99% probable that they will avoid the endings of the prior trilogy like a plague.

Did you read my post? I said 99% of the galaxy is unexplored there is plenty there is no need to leave the galaxy the uncharted regions are good enough not to mention there were laws that prevented the activation of dormant relay's due to what happened with the rachni wars. I also never said that I'm expecting to visit places from the trilogy in the next game. I said that abandoning the places visited in the trilogy forever isn't a good idea since people would like to return to them some point in future installments.

[StarcloudSWG]

Well, since the Relay system was, essentially, a galactic "freeway" of sorts, specifically channeling development between a limited number of systems, there's plenty of room (like, another 100 billions stars' worth) in this galaxy for new exploration. I expect a completely new gate system will be found, revealing a totally separate group of civilizations that have thrived throughout galactic history, completely oblivious to and ignored by the Reapers. Given the size of our galaxy, there could actually be hundreds of such networks and civilizations, all living their own cycles and histories, never seeing each other because of the impracticality of true FTL travel in the ME universe.

 

Large parts of the Mass Relay network are still unexplored. 'Closed/inactive' Mass Relays are a common enough phenomenon that the Council has laws against opening them in case of another Rachni War. That's why the First Contact War happened; Turian patrol found human explorers trying to activate an inactive mass relay.

 

With this as a well-established part of the Mass Effect setting, there is no need for a 'completely new' gate system.

[Kabooooom]

Did you read my post? I said 99% of the galaxy is unexplored there is plenty there is no need to leave the galaxy the uncharted regions are good enough not to mention there were laws that prevented the activation of dormant relay's due to what happened with the rachni wars. I also never said that I'm expecting to visit places from the trilogy in the next game. I said that abandoning the places visited in the trilogy forever isn't a good idea since people would like to return to them some point in future installments.

Did you read mine? There are two (and only two) possibilities for a story like this: (1) activate a dormant relay to uncharted space on the network. (2) travel off the network into uncharted space.

With (1), you have the opportunity for a game very similar to prior titles, but it would require complete isolation from the rest of the network to avoid touching anything that the prior trilogy did. I am fine with this idea. I suspect it is probably the route they will take.

(2) simply wont work, period. It would take 50 years to travel across the Milky Way via FTL, so unless this game takes place entirely within a single star cluster, then this isn't the route they will take - leaving (1) the only option.

Because (1) is the only option, there is NOT 99% of the galaxy left to explore...only the fraction of the 1% or so that the relay network covers, which is still millions of stars. There's plenty of space there for a story, but it will probably feel forced because of the necessary isolation from the rest of the network.

So would a story taking place in another galaxy, of course.

[cap and gown]

I can very easily imagine that the next game will make it so that humans, et. al. know how to make relays themselves and that the opening scene of the game will be something along these lines:

 

The mass relay should be in position in 90 seconds. All stations prepare for relay activation. Avalanche, start final preparations for a jump to system Sigma Draconis.

 

10 . . . 9 . . . 8 . . . 7 . . . 6 . . . 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . The relay is active. All systems read nominal. Avalanche, you are cleared to jump. Good luck.

[Drone223]

Did you read mine? There are two (and only two) possibilities for a story like this: (1) activate a dormant relay to uncharted space on the network. (2) travel off the network into uncharted space.
With (1), you have the opportunity for a game very similar to prior titles, but it would require complete isolation from the rest of the network to avoid touching anything that the prior trilogy did. I am fine with this idea. I suspect it is probably the route they will take.
(2) simply wont work, period. It would take 50 years to travel across the Milky Way via FTL, so unless this game takes place entirely within a single star cluster, then this isn't the route they will take - leaving (1) the only option.
Because (1) is the only option, there is NOT 99% of the galaxy left to explore...only the fraction of the 1% or so that the relay network covers, which is still millions of stars. There's plenty of space there for a story, but it will probably feel forced because of the necessary isolation from the rest of the network.
So would a story taking place in another galaxy, of course.

Read it again, the majority of mass relay's are dormant due to regulations to prevent something like the rachni war from happening again and most likely a very small percentage of the relay's were active during the events of the trilogy. There are many relay's that link to uncharted space (it says so in the codex) so those relay's could be used to explore those regions so there is no need to isolate the relay network altogether.

[Drone223]

Large parts of the Mass Relay network are still unexplored. 'Closed/inactive' Mass Relays are a common enough phenomenon that the Council has laws against opening them in case of another Rachni War. That's why the First Contact War happened; Turian patrol found human explorers trying to activate an inactive mass relay.

With this as a well-established part of the Mass Effect setting, there is no need for a 'completely new' gate system.

Exactly, the vast majority of the relay's are connected to uncharted regions of the galaxy. Only a small percentage of them are probably active during the events of the trilogy?

[Kabooooom]

Read it again, the majority of mass relay's are dormant due to regulations to prevent something like the rachni war from happening again and most likely a very small percentage of the relay's were active during the events of the trilogy. There are many relay's that link to uncharted space (it says so in the codex) so those relay's could be used to explore those regions so there is no need to isolate the relay network altogether.

Right, we aren't disagreeing there at all. I'm uncertain on exactly what you think we are disagreeing on. That said, I am under the impression that you still believe the network covers a sizable fraction of the galaxy. It does not. It actually only covers a very small percentage, likely somewhere around 1-2%, and of that the races of the galaxy have only explored less than 1%. The rest of the galaxy is uncharted space, literally expanses of thousands of light years between primary relays.

The reason for the necessity to have the story isolated from the rest of the network is only to avoid the events of the original trilogy, not because of some mechanic in how the network works.