108 réponses à ce sujet

[Tex]

Sign I emencly enjoyed the fact that in order to have blood magic you had to have a intact contract with a demon please bioware bring it back.

[Fast Jimmy]

Here is the problem with this immersion argument - Bioware allows us to be reavers which is basically the same thing. I mean, in DAO we had to side with the obviously insane cave dwelling homeless hermit in Kolgrim to be reavers, and had to take part in a blood magic ritual.

I think a Reaver is less likely to be possessed... maybe? Mages are bad, m'kay?

[In Exile]

I think a Reaver is less likely to be possessed... maybe? Mages are bad, m'kay?

 

I think the for realsies argument is that no one knows about reavers, but still, when your party members see you chomp down on some enemy flesh, presumably they'll be WTFing at least a little. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I think the for realsies argument is that no one knows about reavers, but still, when your party members see you chomp down on some enemy flesh, presumably they'll be WTFing at least a little.

Hey, everyone had a fetish. Whatever gets your rocks off.

[DarthLaxian]

Well it's definitely too late for it to be in DA:I now and I think it's a bit too core to the story to just be  added in as DLC. However I would happily see a blood magic spec in future games provided that NPCs act realistically to the protagonist using blood magic otherwise it just seems silly. I would personally happily wait longer for a blood magic spec and relative NPC reactions to it in a future game.

 

so I am for blood magic in future games provided there are realistic NPC reactions even if it takes up more development time. 

 

And what would be "realistic" (no, the over the top impact Bioware-devs themselves imagine is not - as only certain groups of people can recognize blood-magic in the first place: Templars, Seekers, Mages and - maybe - Clerics and (even less likely) some nobles...even more so as people would probably not rat you out, if you help them (most people don't betray people who help them or even save their lives))?

 

So yeah, it would IMHO work as DLC (even if I'd probably see it as a money-grab...after all it should IMHO be part of the vanilla game, just like it was in the past...but money-grab or not, I would take it...better then not having the specialisation after all)

 

greetings LAX

ps: wow - that sounds patronizing and a little self-righteous (but it shows how passionate I feel about this - so I will not change it...and I do mean what I wrote, too - especially that Bioware (the devs and writers) overthinks the impact of blood-magic...as really, how many people really know of it (even more so, if you only use it to fuel normal spells or if a templar has disabled you first (or you run out of mana)) or enough about it to recognize it? - it's not that many...and unless you use it directly in front of them, you are home free (I mean, no templar learns what you do in the deep roads or in some god forsaken cave, are they?)...well, enough said (and I am getting tired...it's six AM and I should go to bed ^^)

[In Exile]

Hey, everyone had a fetish. Whatever gets your rocks off.

*Le Gasp!* How could you know about my stalagmite fetish!?

... Or was it stalactite? I can never keep the two straight.

[Semyaza82]

I'm very glad it's not back. It just doesn't work lore wise, both in terms of what the PC can do with it and with how NPC's react.

 

Within the games lore blood magic just isn't viewed the same as any of the things it's been compared to. An aposate is not automatically a malificar, a Blood mage is. An apostate is still viewed as a bad thing by most, but not automatically seen as evil. I'm not saying this is 'right', just that this is the way the people in Thedas view blood magic according the lore (apart from in Tevinter). Considering the PC is trying to build a political power base in DA:I using Blood Magic would really need to big part of the plot if it were there.

 

A reaver might do something connected but as non mages the actual uses of the power are far less problematic. They don't have the risk of possession, and more importantly they don't have the ability to control peoples minds. As I understood it this is the biggest issue with Blood magic as it allows teh Blood Mage to 'rule over' others.

 

Finally when you compare the things you could actually do with Blood Magic in DA:O and DA2 to what you can do with it in the lore then it seems crazily under-powered. Like some others have said, it could well make sense for it to come back in a future game - if it could make sense in terms of the plot.

[efd731]

And what would be "realistic" (no, the over the top impact Bioware-devs themselves imagine is not - as only certain groups of people can recognize blood-magic in the first place: Templars, Seekers, Mages and - maybe - Clerics and (even less likely) some nobles...even more so as people would probably not rat you out, if you help them (most people don't betray people who help them or even save their lives))?

 

So yeah, it would IMHO work as DLC (even if I'd probably see it as a money-grab...after all it should IMHO be part of the vanilla game, just like it was in the past...but money-grab or not, I would take it...better then not having the specialisation after all)

 

greetings LAX

ps: wow - that sounds patronizing and a little self-righteous (but it shows how passionate I feel about this - so I will not change it...and I do mean what I wrote, too - especially that Bioware (the devs and writers) overthinks the impact of blood-magic...as really, how many people really know of it (even more so, if you only use it to fuel normal spells or if a templar has disabled you first (or you run out of mana)) or enough about it to recognize it? - it's not that many...and unless you use it directly in front of them, you are home free (I mean, no templar learns what you do in the deep roads or in some god forsaken cave, are they?)...well, enough said (and I am getting tired...it's six AM and I should go to bed ^^)

i think you're completely incorrect.  for 1) bioware made the universe and the lore, and set the reactions of everyone accordingly, they would know better than anyone what the reactions should be, and if they say haven't been able to make the reactions they wanted yet, believe them . 2) mages templars and seekers might be able to recognize a spell powered by lyrium. but if your average everyday peasant sees someone with a big bladed stick cutting themselves open and then magic happening thats a fairly easy 1+1=bloodmagic. and 3) bloodmagic is supposed to come with heavy penalties(see Last Flight) including those pesky demon voices in your head. and if bioware says "so far blood magic hasnt been done properly" i for one am inclined to believe them. and basically everything the DarkKnight has allready said.

[efd731]

i think you're completely incorrect.  for 1) bioware made the universe and the lore, and set the reactions of everyone accordingly, they would know better than anyone what the reactions should be, and if they say haven't been able to make the reactions they wanted yet, believe them . 2) mages templars and seekers might be able to recognize a spell powered by blood. but if your average everyday peasant sees someone with a big bladed stick cutting themselves open and then magic happening thats a fairly easy 1+1=bloodmagic. and 3) bloodmagic is supposed to come with heavy penalties(see Last Flight) including those pesky demon voices in your head. and if bioware says "so far blood magic hasnt been done properly" i for one am inclined to believe them. and basically everything the DarkKnight has already said.

since i cant edit for some reason, i shall continue here. not to mention that "no one else would see it" is incredibly niave and only to serve your arguement. your companions would see. who would mind? solas,varric,cassandra,ironbull,sera,possibly cole,vivienne, looks like dorian might not cuz tevinter, and blackwall might not cuz Wardens. lelianna and cullen for sure would be like "nope **** that" Josie probably as well. the majority of people who view you as an andraste like savior would be like "bloodmage **** no!". it makes no sense for the story, so im glad its gone in this game. and i hope it makes a triumphant comeback(along with all the story context and horribly negative reactions that entails) in the next game.

[Asdrubael Vect]

who would mind? solas,varric,cassandra,ironbull,sera,possibly cole,vivienne, looks like dorian might not cuz tevinter, and blackwall might not cuz Wardens. lelianna and cullen for sure would be like "nope **** that" Josie probably as well. the majority of people who view you as an andraste like savior would be like "bloodmage **** no!". it makes no sense for the story, so im glad its gone in this game. and i hope it makes a triumphant comeback(along with all the story context and horribly negative reactions that entails) in the next game.

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole will not mind at all....at least if you does not start to sacrifice innoncent but i am sure that for them it will be no different how we kill someone with magic or not

 

iron bull will not mind too and for him as for any qunari there is no difference at all...so it would be like with sten....we are apostage mage and use magic what they does not understand and they no matter how they personaly think must deal with it because we do job and they are just spies who help and watch to report later

 

the only who will  really mind is Cullen, Cass, lelianna(but she was a bard, already deal with warden blood mage or who support evil magic or demon stuff so mostly she would be like varrick, as varrick who was deal with hawke and merril and anders and have tevinter relatives)....lelianna never like heretics and magic but understand that magic is "evil" and dangerous but usefull

 

josephine as antivan and a diplomat who was working in many places of Thedas and dealing with many peoples, will mind but will not say anything...as she is remain silent for many things who we are and what we will do

 

so we have

 

1)who does not really care

 

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole

 

2)who does care but will be silent

 

josephine, iron bull ...Lelianna

 

3)who does care and it is problem for them

 

Cassandra, Cullen, Lelianna

 

 

 

as for soldiers(it depends of what kind of alliances you do..templars and some other pro Chantry and orlais will not deal with it(and i am sure that if we choise them we will not have blood magic spec at all)..i does not know how they deal if we are mage, nonhuman and heretic)...but they does not care who you are and for them matters only that you are the only one who is close holes in fade

[Gothfather]

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole will not mind at all....at least if you does not start to sacrifice innoncent but i am sure that for them it will be no different how we kill someone with magic or not

 

iron bull will not mind too and for him as for any qunari there is no difference at all...so it would be like with sten....we are apostage mage and use magic what they does not understand and they no matter how they personaly think must deal with it because we do job and they are just spies who help and watch to report later

 

the only who will  really mind is Cullen, Cass, lelianna(but she already deal with warden blood mage or who support evil magic or demon stuff so mostly she would be like varrick, as varrick who was deal with hawke and merril and anders and have tevinter relatives)....lelianna never like heretics and magic but understand that magic is "evil" and dangerous but usefull

 

josephine as antivan and a diplomat who was working in many places of Thedas and dealing with many peoples will mind but will not say anything...as she is remain silent for many things who we are and what we will do

 

so we have

 

1)who does not really care

 

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole

 

2)who does care but will be silent

 

josephine, iron bull 

 

3)who does care and it is problem for them

 

Cassandra and Cullen

 

 

 

as for soldiers(it depends of what kind of alliances you do..templars and some other pro Chantry and orlais will not deal with it(and i am sure that if we choise them we will not have blood magic spec at all)..i does not know how they deal if we are mage, nonhuman and heretic)...but they does not care who you are and for them matters only that you are the only one who is close holes in fade

 

How do you get the idea Solas, Vivienne, and dorian wont mind? I am sure you wouldn't just talk out of your ass, so you must have evidance so provide a link.

 

Given that there is a mage templar war going on and the world has seen the devestation of red lyrim templars on one side and Mages using blood magic on the other do you HONESTLY think any of the Companions will tollerate Blood magic? The only one I think you could argue convincingly wouldn't mind is Cole. Varric might have tollerated Hawke as a blood mage but I am sure AFTER seeing a big bloody hole in the sky that type of tollerance is OVER. Leliana is not teh young confussed lass you met in Origins she is far more devout so her tollerance for it in origins is almost assuradly gone.  i think its dubious to view her as ever tolelrant of it given that non of the origins companions noticed you were a blood mage because the game did not actually respond to your specializations well at all. Now it does.

 

What people were once tollerant of changes after they see the devestation of a war in which one side is using a prohibited weapon.

[Semyaza82]

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole will not mind at all....at least if you does not start to sacrifice innoncent but i am sure that for them it will be no different how we kill someone with magic or not

 

iron bull will not mind too and for him as for any qunari there is no difference at all...so it would be like with sten....we are apostage mage and use magic what they does not understand and they no matter how they personaly think must deal with it because we do job and they are just spies who help and watch to report later

 

the only who will  really mind is Cullen, Cass, lelianna(but she was a bard, already deal with warden blood mage or who support evil magic or demon stuff so mostly she would be like varrick, as varrick who was deal with hawke and merril and anders and have tevinter relatives)....lelianna never like heretics and magic but understand that magic is "evil" and dangerous but usefull

 

josephine as antivan and a diplomat who was working in many places of Thedas and dealing with many peoples, will mind but will not say anything...as she is remain silent for many things who we are and what we will do

 

so we have

 

1)who does not really care

 

solas, vvienne, varrick, blackwall, dorian, cole

 

2)who does care but will be silent

 

josephine, iron bull ...Lelianna

 

3)who does care and it is problem for them

 

Cassandra, Cullen, Lelianna

 

 

 

as for soldiers(it depends of what kind of alliances you do..templars and some other pro Chantry and orlais will not deal with it(and i am sure that if we choise them we will not have blood magic spec at all)..i does not know how they deal if we are mage, nonhuman and heretic)...but they does not care who you are and for them matters only that you are the only one who is close holes in fade

   Along with what Gothfather said above wanted to add a few things about they characters he didn't mention.

You're ignoring the (admittedly limited) information we have been told so far. Vivienne is a very pro-Circle mage - so it seems a pretty safe bet she'll share the circles views on Blood Magic. Dorian thinks the Tevinter system iscorrupt and in need of changing - again this doesn't exactly scream 'I'm fine with blood magic'. As for Solas, we have literally no idea what he thinks of it. Same for Iron Bull, for all we know he might feel very strongly about Blood Magic. That's information we don't have yet.

   As you've done before (in various romance threads) you're making massive assumptions about who the characters are. Some of the things you think might end up being right but we don't actually know yet.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Solas is apostage elf dreamer who see and know many things and do not scared of demons at all...i am sure that he is know about blood magic as any dalish keeper...not problem at all

 

Dorian raised in the family of Tevinters magisters...know and do blood magic, and he was a ex venatory if someone forget, and all this "corruption"  it is venatory and old god worship.....not problem at all

 

Vivienne is ex first enchater and she must know and do blood magic if she must...and she is care about power, political power...her pro circle position is being first enchanter when someone obey to her, after circles gone she was work with empress......not problem at all

 

 

Varick have damn relatives in Tevinter who are blood mages and friends who are blood mages...he does not care a bit before you will start to kill innocent with magic or not....blowing chantry and breach and finding meric does not change him at all and everytime then cassandra speak about evil apostages he is say about templars who do sh*t

 

Iron Bull situation is the same as with sten...he was send to spy on us , watch, help and after return to Qun leaders and report...for him there is no real diffeence in magic or blood magic..and he is ok with demon and mages..and he is a reaver himself

[dlux]

All I want is a healing class to return. I could care less about blood magic.

[KaiserShep]

Anti-signed.

The only way I would want Blood Mage to come back is if the game revolved around a Mage PC and/or they had a LOT of both content as well as game mechanics to support how big of a deal that would be.

In game, it was way underpowered for how powerful it supposedly made Mages. Not to mention every NPC in the game should have run away in terror the second you started cutting yourself during battle.

I don't want them to do it unless they do it right.

 

And this is really what it comes down to. Unless BioWare is ready to invest in writing scenarios to reasonably reflect its use in-game, then it's best not to use it at all.

[efd731]

Assdrubael, I'm not sure if your imperfect English is preventing some manner of nuance from entering your arguement, but it sounds like you are arguing from a position of absolute certainty. And that's stupid. Varric didn't react to hawke being a bloodmage because nobody reacted to hawke being a bloodmage because the devs didn't have the word budget and the game was very very rushed. That is a fact. Another fact is that the devs state that blood magic has never properly been implemented in the games. Literal unarguable fact. You can say "I want blood magic back the consequence free way it was before because it was fun" but you cannot say "that is how blood magic is always and it should have no consequences" because it defies literally everything about the games setting and lore, and while it might please you, would have the opposite effect for other people.

[Gothfather]

Solas is apostage elf dreamer who see and know many things and do not scared of demons at all...i am sure that he is know about blood magic as any dalish keeper...not problem at all

 

Dorian raised in the family of Tevinters magisters...know and do blood magic, and he was a ex venatory if someone forget, and all this "corruption"  it is venatory and old god worship.....not problem at all

 

Vivienne is ex first enchater and she must know and do blood magic if she must...and she is care about power, political power...her pro circle position is being first enchanter when someone obey to her, after circles gone she was work with empress......not problem at all

 

 

Varick have damn relatives in Tevinter who are blood mages and friends who are blood mages...he does not care a bit before you will start to kill innocent with magic or not....blowing chantry and breach and finding meric does not change him at all and everytime then cassandra speak about evil apostages he is say about templars who do sh*t

 

Iron Bull situation is the same as with sten...he was send to spy on us , watch, help and after return to Qun leaders and report...for him there is no real diffeence in magic or blood magic..and he is ok with demon and mages..and he is a reaver himself

 

You are making HUGE leaps that if a character has X trait that must automatically mean they are pro blood magic. Your conclusions are not logical based on what we know of the characters and what we don't know you must assume it must equal blood magic is okay.

 

Here is what we DO know the developers have said Blood mages would not be tolerated in the inquisition. If you want to play a blood mage raze the chantry and kill all templars type of character. You can't. Why? becaues Bioware didn't write that story and given that this is a STORY driven RPG you are sh!t out of luck. It might not be what you want but its the game that was made.

[efd731]

And this is really what it comes down to. Unless BioWare is ready to invest in writing scenarios to reasonably reflect its use in-game, then it's best not to use it at all.

gameplay scenarios as well, and that's the kicker. How do you account for gameplay where mind control is a thing? Any boss can be frozen in place to wait a sword blow to the face, and enemy faction leader can be bent to your will. How about the demons? Do they ever get to control your body? Is that an immediate end game? Do you continue as a pawn of whatever posessed you? Is there a chance to be saved via the same ritual as Connor? What about the long term physical effects ala Last flight? Essentially it would dominate the entire game, requiring so much additional content I can only imagine it working easily with a fixed Mage protagonist. Otherwise, like damn, it would be so very massive compared to other class/spec/race related content.(as it rightfully should be as such a damn touchy subject)

[efd731]

On too of everything else, you are the leader of a giant army if demonslayers, it would be incredibly dumb for you to resort to a source of magic so completely tied to demons in the public view. It's one if those stupid requests like "let me march on the chantry and burn all their buildings to the ground" or "let my armies destroy Orlais because 'insert X' " that while entertaining in head canon, is ridiculous ingame. It simply would not be a possibility.

[efd731]

Heh, I killed a thread again. Ginger:1 BSN:0

[SpiritMuse]

Heh, I killed a thread again. Ginger:1 BSN:0

 

You didn't use it to fuel your Blood Magic, did you?

[Greenface21]

Heh, I killed a thread again. Ginger:1 BSN:0

 

I think it means you win the thread. Final Verdict Blood Magic banned.

[efd731]

I think it means you win the thread. Final Verdict Blood Magic banned.

I don't want It banned though, I just want it done more "true" to universe. And for asdrubael to realize they're arguing in error and some cookies

[herkles]

Perhaps if the next game is set in Tevinter, blood magic might come back. 

[aTigerslunch]

Maybe for DA4, where the consequences actually do get added, sure.