221 réponses à ce sujet

[fyz306903]

How about we canonize "The Reapers attacked the galaxy, Shepard saved us all, now let's never speak of it again"?

Well, that basically sidestepping the endings. I think a side-quel happening alongside ME3 in a cordoned off part of the Galaxy would work for this, but not a sequel. To make a sequel to ME3, Bioware would have to address the endings in some way, which is exactly why I don't think they'd do a sequel. I'm not saying Bioware are 'lazy' but although ME3's endings could be explained relatively easily, accounting for the existence/extinction/near extinction of the Geth, Quarians and Krogan would, IMO, be very difficult. I think that's six variables alone right there, and that's by making the Reapers mysteriously vanish and by ignoring the ME trilogy's 'little variables' competently. So in short, I'm 98% certain that the ME trilogy's choices will be sidestepped by a side-quel/spin off. .  

[Vazgen]

u wot m8?

Yeah mate, such people exist. I'm not going to make assumptions about their numbers, it's the job of Bioware market analysts. Point is, Bioware will not make a decision that'll alienate the majority of the fans - be it a reboot or a sequel. And if the split is roughly equal, they'll stick with their ending decisions. 

[GalacticWolf5]

Yeah mate, such people exist. I'm not going to make assumptions about their numbers, it's the job of Bioware market analysts. Point is, Bioware will not make a decision that'll alienate the majority of the fans - be it a reboot or a sequel. And if the split is roughly equal, they'll stick with their ending decisions. 

 

Indeed a lot of people, including me, liked the ending. I personally think the endings were amazing and a perfect closure for the Trilogy.

[Revan Reborn]

But this is more proof than any that Bioware didn't have a coherent plan for the whole trilogy. If ME1 and ME2 constantly set up destroying the Reapers as the ultimate goal (which they do) why: 1. bother including three 'non-Destroy' endings a to ME3 and 2. Ruin (IMO) the actual Destroy ending by making it kill all synthetics. Bioware either didn't think this through, or tried to imply that maybe the alternatives to killing the reapers are better after all.

We can't say 'Destroy is fine because EDI and the Geth can be rebuilt'. The post ending sequence shows EDI in the 'people we lost' slideshow and shows a Geth-free Rannoch, so we must assume that Destroy does away with them for good. Even if EDI and the Geth can be produced, they'll only be copies, rather than the actual people. Also, how does Synthesis turn people into Reaper slaves or Reapers? To me, it means giving synthetics and organics part of each other's 'essence' and intelligence and allows them to understand each other. Organics can use the light-speed logic and communication of Synthetics, and Synthetics can feel the emotion and tolerance of organics. I think that Synthesis is the ultimate way of defeating the Reapers as it basically renders them obsolete. So until ME4 brings up some new info/clarification (which I'm sure it will) my head cannon is synthesis. 

That's a simple answer. BioWare wanted to provide a final choice that was the ultimate moral dilemma. Destroy was the default choice, but then others were introduced to give different outcomes. BioWare tried to frame them in such a way where there wasn't necessarily a "right" or "wrong" choice.

 

They can be rebuilt. The Mass Relays were rebuilt and the Citadel was rebuilt, which is far more advanced than EDI or the Geth. Synthetics were never "living" to start. At best, EDI could only try to simulate being "alive," but was never actually alive.

 

The Reapers were a solution in order to resolve the synthetic-organic problem. The Reapers themselves are both machine and organic. This is how all of the organics are "preserved" in Reaper form. The Reapers are only "obsolete" because you gave the Catalyst what it wanted all along. It's ultimate solution to the "problem." Again, Synthesis just creates a new breed of Reaper. A more perfect version.

 

You are more than welcome to stick by Synthesis. I just believe it's more of a losing option than a winning one. People generally choose it because it's the idealistic "happy ending" where everybody wins and organics and synthetics hold hands and sing songs about peace. At least with Destroy, you know the Reapers and the Catalyst are out of the picture. Who's to say the Reapers wouldn't come to the conclusion that Synthesis wasn't the final solution and decided to begin harvesting again? What then?

 

As Admiral Hackett stated with great wisdom, "the only good Reaper is a dead one."

[Revan Reborn]

Indeed a lot of people, including me, liked the ending. I personally think the endings were amazing and a perfect closure for the Trilogy.

It's really unfortunate because I believe a lot more gamers like the ME3 ending than many actually realize. There is this perception that everybody unanimously hated the endings at launch because of the major outcry by a vocal minority. I admit the ending originally left us somewhat hanging, but EC more or less rectified all of my issues and Citadel brought closure to all of the companions.

 

People are certainly entitled to have their opinions and if they think Mass Effect is "ruined," so be it. However, don't you dare try to slight the rest of the fan base by not allowing us to import our choices because you didn't approve of the ending. This is BioWare we are talking about. It is their standard to import our choices to the next title. I think BioWare would find there would be a larger outcry because of a retcon or a forced canon ending than by just explaining the ones we were presented.

[Iakus]

That's a simple answer. BioWare wanted to provide a final choice that was the ultimate moral dilemma. Destroy was the default choice, but then others were introduced to give different outcomes. BioWare tried to frame them in such a way where there wasn't necessarily a "right" or "wrong" choice.

 

They can be rebuilt. The Mass Relays were rebuilt and the Citadel was rebuilt, which is far more advanced than EDI or the Geth. Synthetics were never "living" to start. At best, EDI could only try to simulate being "alive," but was never actually alive.

 

The Reapers were a solution in order to resolve the synthetic-organic problem. The Reapers themselves are both machine and organic. This is how all of the organics are "preserved" in Reaper form. The Reapers are only "obsolete" because you gave the Catalyst what it wanted all along. It's ultimate solution to the "problem." Again, Synthesis just creates a new breed of Reaper. A more perfect version.

 

You are more than welcome to stick by Synthesis. I just believe it's more of a losing option than a winning one. People generally choose it because it's the idealistic "happy ending" where everybody wins and organics and synthetics hold hands and sing songs about peace. At least with Destroy, you know the Reapers and the Catalyst are out of the picture. Who's to say the Reapers wouldn't come to the conclusion that Synthesis wasn't the final solution and decided to begin harvesting again? What then?

 

As Admiral Hackett stated with great wisdom, "the only good Reaper is a dead one."

 

1) Tried and pretty clearly failed

2) No, they can't.  AI memories can be stored and transferred, but results in a new personality.  If EDI dies and her files are uploaded into another quantum blue box the outcome is a new entity with EDI's memories.  If you kill a synthetic, that synthetic is just as dead an an organic,

3) EDI was alive, though not in a biological sense.  She simulates being human.  Not being alive.  

[goishen]

Look, I still say that it doesn't matter what we chose at the end.  I'm willing to bet you that we're gonna take off (for ME:N adventures) right at the moment when Shepard's attacking TIM's base, that way...

 

• All of our previous choices mattered
• None of the endings will matter

 

I can almost guarantee this is how they're gonna go.  It's either that or they're gonna write it about a hundred years in the future, and by then it won't really matter either.

[Revan Reborn]

1) Tried and pretty clearly failed

2) No, they can't.  AI memories can be stored and transferred, but results in a new personality.  If EDI dies and her files are uploaded into another quantum blue box the outcome is a new entity with EDI's memories.  If you kill a synthetic, that synthetic is just as dead an an organic,

3) EDI was alive, though not in a biological sense.  She simulates being human.  Not being alive.  

1) In your opinion they failed.

2) Synthetics are not organics. They were built and of course they can be rebuilt. You are doing nothing but speculating and making your own conclusions without actually presenting any facts. You are not a quarian. You did not create the geth. You have no idea whether a "new personality" would be created or not. It's likely a new personality wouldn't be made because synthetics don't have the level of understanding of organics, so replicating them to their original state shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, if Synthesis can permanently alter the DNA of all organics and give synthetics understanding, you are really going to tell me the quarians can't be rebuilt the way they were previously? Nonsense.

3) EDI was never alive nor was she human. She merely tried to emulate such behaviors based on advice from Shepard and Joker. Create another unshackled AI with her memories and voila, EDI is back.

 

The reason your entire argument is incorrect is purely because of your assumption that synthetics are as complex as organics. That is patently wrong and part of the reason the geth wanted to maintain the reaper tech was so that they could be more like organics. They are nothing more than machines that are self-aware and have the capacity to learn, but failure to understand anything outside their programming.

 

Look, I still say that it doesn't matter what we chose at the end.  I'm willing to bet you that we're gonna take off (for ME:N adventures) right at the moment when Shepard's attacking TIM's base, that way...

 

• All of our previous choices mattered
• None of the endings will matter

 

I can almost guarantee this is how they're gonna go.  It's either that or they're gonna write it about a hundred years in the future, and by then it won't really matter either.

You are living in a fantasy. Only a third party source, who was caught lying, suggested the new game would take place "during Shepard's lifetime." Given how BioWare wants to create a new journey, it's almost guaranteed the Shepard story will be done and finished by the time this new story begins. Based on what we know, the next Mass Effect is almost certainly a sequel and the endings will be addressed. It doesn't matter how much you don't like them, they won't be ignored.

[GalacticWolf5]

2) Synthetics are not organics. They were built and of course they can be rebuilt. You are doing nothing but speculating and making your own conclusions without actually presenting any facts. You are not a quarian. You did not create the geth. You have no idea whether a "new personality" would be created or not. It's likely a new personality wouldn't be made because synthetics don't have the level of understanding of organics, so replicating them to their original state shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, if Synthesis can permanently alter the DNA of all organics and give synthetics understanding, you are really going to tell me the quarians can't be rebuilt the way they were previously? Nonsense.

 

Actually, the codex states that ''Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create unpredictable variations.'' This applies to all AIs. It would be impossible to re-create Legion, EDI or any other AI.

[goishen]

You are living in a fantasy. Only a third party source, who was caught lying, suggested the new game would take place "during Shepard's lifetime." Given how BioWare wants to create a new journey, it's almost guaranteed the Shepard story will be done and finished by the time this new story begins. Based on what we know, the next Mass Effect is almost certainly a sequel and the endings will be addressed. It doesn't matter how much you don't like them, they won't be ignored.

 

 

It's possible that both are true though. 

 

Cut scene :  Asari yelling at everyone to get into the Ark on Illium.  They then go to the various fleets and home planets which haven't been touched yet.  They set off for the deepest darkest section of space that they can find.

 

Cut scene :  20 years later. 

 

It still makes sense, and it's not inside Shepard's lifetime.

[Revan Reborn]

Actually, the codex states that ''Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create unpredictable variations.'' This applies to all AIs. It would be impossible to re-create Legion, EDI or any other AI.

This is science fiction fantasy, for one. Nothing is "impossible." Secondly, there are plenty of examples of "space magic" and how reaper technology vastly surpasses anything known in the galaxy. What you fail to recognize is that the Geth and EDI are based more on reaper technology than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if they could be recreated just the same, as again they are not organics. Either way it's a moot point as they are just complex machines and they can be rebuilt, even if they aren't identical to what they were before. Choosing Synthesis just to "save" EDI is a terrible rationale to have when the entire galaxy is on the line.

 

It's possible that both are true though. 

 

Cut scene :  Asari yelling at everyone to get into the Ark on Illium.  They then go to the various fleets and home planets which haven't been touched yet.  They set off for the deepest darkest section of space that they can find.

 

Cut scene :  20 years later. 

 

It still makes sense, and it's not inside Shepard's lifetime.

The Ark Theory is just that, a theory. Pure speculation not grounded in anything substantial. The endings are not going to be ignored, and that theory is one big scapegoat to avoid having to deal with any of the consequences of the ending of ME3. That would be a terrible way to start the next Mass Effect by BioWare saying "Hey guys, you know the trilogy and how it all ended? None of it matters."

[ImaginaryMatter]

1) In your opinion they failed.

2) Synthetics are not organics. They were built and of course they can be rebuilt. You are doing nothing but speculating and making your own conclusions without actually presenting any facts. You are not a quarian. You did not create the geth. You have no idea whether a "new personality" would be created or not. It's likely a new personality wouldn't be made because synthetics don't have the level of understanding of organics, so replicating them to their original state shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, if Synthesis can permanently alter the DNA of all organics and give synthetics understanding, you are really going to tell me the quarians can't be rebuilt the way they were previously? Nonsense.

3) EDI was never alive nor was she human. She merely tried to emulate such behaviors based on advice from Shepard and Joker. Create another unshackled AI with her memories and voila, EDI is back.

 

From the Codex:

 

"An AI cannot be transmitted across a communication channel or computer network. Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create unpredictable variations."

 

The variations aren't due to organics lack of understanding in AI technology, it's due to uncertainty that is inherent in nature when dealing with things at the quantum level.

[Revan Reborn]

From the Codex:

 

"An AI cannot be transmitted across a communication channel or computer network. Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create unpredictable variations."

 

The variations aren't due to organics lack of understanding in AI technology, it's due to uncertainty that is inherent in nature when dealing with things at the quantum level.

This is science fiction fantasy... Even Drew Karpyshyn admitted to using "space magic" to explain a lot of the events and technology of Mass Effect.

 

Codex entries aren't reliable as they are either too vague and sometimes the game contradicts them. Take, for example, Javik's explanation of the asari being uplifted and the codex referring to the asari gaining their biotic powers because of the atmosphere of Thessia. The codex is either extremely broad or is incorrect.

 

All I'm seeing are excuses for why they can't be rebuilt based on a vague explanation. People seem to forget EDI and the Geth are based on reaper technology, which is something the galaxy doesn't fully comprehend. Considering that same technology can entirely remake the DNA of every organic, I have a hard time believing it couldn't restore EDI and the Geth.

[GalacticWolf5]

This is science fiction fantasy... Even Drew Karpyshyn admitted to using "space magic" to explain a lot of the events and technology of Mass Effect.

 

Codex entries aren't reliable as they are either too vague and sometimes the game contradicts them. Take, for example, Javik's explanation of the asari being uplifted and the codex referring to the asari gaining their biotic powers because of the atmosphere of Thessia. The codex is either extremely broad or is incorrect.

 

The codex says this because it's not known that Protheans altered the Asari to grant them biotics. Yes Thessia does have abundant quantities of Element Zero, but it's the Protheans who changed the Asari so that they would all have biotics. The Asari probably looked for a reason why only their species all had biotic abilities and associated it with Eezo present on Thessia.

 

All I'm seeing are excuses for why they can't be rebuilt based on a vague explanation. People seem to forget EDI and the Geth are based on reaper technology, which is something the galaxy doesn't fully comprehend. Considering that same technology can entirely remake the DNA of every organic, I have a hard time believing it couldn't restore EDI and the Geth.

 

I understand what you mean, I don't agree, but I understand why you would think that.

 

I'm not saying the Geth couldn't be re-created. It would be really easy to do. What I'm saying is that they couldn't rebuilt the exact same Geth that existed before, as their personalities have been destroyed and cannot be restored. It's stated in the codex and in game that trying to restore an AI as it was before is not possible, it would have an entirely new personality.

[Revan Reborn]

The codex says this because it's not known that Protheans altered the Asari to grant them biotics. Yes Thessia does have abundant quantities of Element Zero, but it's the Protheans who changed the Asari so that they would all have biotics. The Asari probably looked for a reason why only their species all had biotic abilities and associated it with Eezo present on Thessia.

 

 

I understand what you mean, I don't agree, but I understand why you would think that.

 

I'm not saying the Geth couldn't be re-created. It would be really easy to do. What I'm saying is that they couldn't rebuilt the exact same Geth that existed before, as their personalities have been destroyed and cannot be restored. It's stated in the codex and in game that trying to restore an AI as it was before is not possible, it would have an entirely new personality.

This is exactly my point. The codex seems to be built based on the civilizations it is referencing. That means it has an inherent bias and is an imperfect tool. Much like the old saying goes, "history is written by the winners." So with this in mind, we cannot hold the codex as the "in all be all" source of all knowledge about Mass Effect. EDI and the Geth developed in ways that organics could not even comprehend. Why should we then assume that organics would know exactly what can and cannot be done with technology they largely don't understand? I'm just posing the idea that based on what BioWare has established, I wouldn't write this off as being "impossible" based on what we already know and what has occurred.

 

I know exactly what you mean. Again, I think we should be careful because the term "personality" means something different for synthetics than it does for organics. Artificial intelligence can be compared to a game console. It has the basic components of a gaming PC, but it's not the same thing. It's a stripped down version. It's difficult and I believe inaccurate to say "we can't recreate their original personality" because what makes an AI work is largely based on what they were programmed to do. With organics, we have to consider environment, relationships, occupation, way of life, and other experiences that one encounters during their existence.

 

AI aren't nearly that complex nor impressionable, so we need to focus on major variables that can alter their "perspective" and develop them in a way that was identical to their predecessor. I don't believe this is impossible, because again they are machines. They lack understanding of which organics have, so I find it hard to argue there would be too many variables to consider in order to replicate EDI back to her pre-ME3 ending state.

[ImaginaryMatter]

This is science fiction fantasy... Even Drew Karpyshyn admitted to using "space magic" to explain a lot of the events and technology of Mass Effect.

 

Codex entries aren't reliable as they are either too vague and sometimes the game contradicts them. Take, for example, Javik's explanation of the asari being uplifted and the codex referring to the asari gaining their biotic powers because of the atmosphere of Thessia. The codex is either extremely broad or is incorrect.

 

All I'm seeing are excuses for why they can't be rebuilt based on a vague explanation. People seem to forget EDI and the Geth are based on reaper technology, which is something the galaxy doesn't fully comprehend. Considering that same technology can entirely remake the DNA of every organic, I have a hard time believing it couldn't restore EDI and the Geth.

 

I'm not sure how to argue this. This is such a slippery slippery slope fallacy I'm not sure I can even retain my footing. There is so much wild speculation that I'm sure none of us here are going to dissuade you. All I have to say is that we're talking about a specific point in the Codex that literally refers to the very issue we're talking about. In this case, it is the most reliable source of in game information, with various other points in the story confirming the existence of the relevant quantum variance that is part of the basis for EDI's technology.

[GalacticWolf5]

If Legion is allowed to do the upload, the Geth receive a Reaper code which allows them to achieve true individual consciousness/intelligence. This is what defines their individual personalities. This is what's inside their blue box. If their blue box is destroyed, they're nothing but data. They don't have a personality anymore. If you take that data and upload it to another blue box, it will created a new geth that will still have the Reaper code but will have a new personality. It won't be the same Geth.

 

In the case of EDI, she was in part designed by technology gained from Sovereign's remains. That's like the Geth. If you destroyed her and uploaded her data to a new blue box, it wouldn't be EDI anymore. EDI feels emotions and has instincts, though they are not precisely the same as the emotions of organics. Due to Cerberus's programming, she is able to feel curiosity, has survival instincts, and forms bonds with the Normandy crew. She is also able to feel positive feedback, akin to happiness, when she does something she enjoys, allowing her to develop preferences. She also develops a sense of humor and often uses it to calm the mood. After uploading her data to a new blue box, all those personality traits would be gone and replaced with new ones.

[Revan Reborn]

I'm not sure how to argue this. This is such a slippery slippery slope fallacy I'm not sure I can even retain my footing. There is so much wild speculation that I'm sure none of us here are going to dissuade you. All I have to say is that we're talking about a specific point in the Codex that literally refers to the very issue we're talking about. In this case, it is the most reliable source of in game information, with various other points in the story confirming the existence of the relevant quantum variance that is part of the basis for EDI's technology.

Fallacies and wild speculation? I'm not the one here making sweeping assumptions and placing constraints on what is apparently possible in the Mass Effect Universe. You can't dissuade me because you are not a BioWare writer. Your entire argument is based on one codex entry, when we know the codex has been inaccurate and is intentionally incomplete. Sorry if I don't take your word for your understanding of "quantum variance" with respect to EDI's technology. We are talking about science fiction fantasy here...

 

Care to explain to me the science behind Synthesis? How exactly organic life force powers a Reaper? How Mass Relays function and what the purpose of the keepers are? You can't, because many of these questions do not have answers, and that's intentional. That's part of the mystery of the franchise. Nobody fully understands EDI's technology or the Geth. They are based heavily on reaper tech, and as a result cannot be explained purely by one line of codex when the inhabitants of the galaxy don't even understand reaper technology.

[Revan Reborn]

If Legion is allowed to do the upload, the Geth receive a Reaper code which allows them to achieve true individual consciousness/intelligence. This is what defines their individual personalities. This is what's inside their blue box. If their blue box is destroyed, they're nothing but data. They don't have a personality anymore. If you take that data and upload it to another blue box, it will created a new geth that will still have the Reaper code but will have a new personality. It won't be the same Geth.

 

In the case of EDI, she was in part designed by technology gained from Sovereign's remains. That's like the Geth. If you destroyed her and uploaded her data to a new blue box, it wouldn't be EDI anymore. EDI feels emotions and has instincts, though they are not precisely the same as the emotions of organics. Due to Cerberus's programming, she is able to feel curiosity, has survival instincts, and forms bonds with the Normandy crew. She is also able to feel positive feedback, akin to happiness, when she does something she enjoys, allowing her to develop preferences. She also develops a sense of humor and often uses it to calm the mood. After uploading her data to a new blue box, all those personality traits would be gone and replaced with new ones.

Exactly. The Geth are a Consensus for 90% of the Mass Effect franchise and do not have individual thought. It's not until the very end of ME3 that they actually think individually, which is why I don't buy the "can't recreate their personalities." They are a collective of software based on programming made by the quarians. Of course it can be replicated. They were never even meant to be AI. The quarians could easily rebuild them as they were pre-ME3. Again, you and no one else in the Mass Effect Universe fully understands reaper technology. You do not know what it can and cannot do. You are merely assuming what it can't do.

 

EDI does not feel anything. EDI was programmed with self-preservation in mind, much like the Geth, and they both individually bring this up in ME3. It's not until Legion uploads the reaper tech and EDI is unshackled and begins obtaining advice from Joker and Shepard that they start to understand that self-preservation isn't what life is purely about. Again you are confusing her programming with actual organic behavior. She is not an organic and she never was. She can attempt to emulate, but she will never fully comprehend what it means. That's the point of Synthesis, to give synthetics "understanding" that the organics have.

 

None of what you stated cannot be restored. Everything EDI does and every time she alters her programming is by doing tireless research or asking for advice. Nothing she did was ever truly "organic," as that would have only been possible with Synthesis. Again, this is why I don't buy the argument that the Geth and EDI can't be rebuilt. Of course they can. They lack understanding of organics and the complexities that go beyond simple logic and processing.

[Oni Changas]

Yeah mate, such people exist. I'm not going to make assumptions about their numbers, it's the job of Bioware market analysts. Point is, Bioware will not make a decision that'll alienate the majority of the fans - be it a reboot or a sequel. And if the split is roughly equal, they'll stick with their ending decisions. 

wat? Can't hear you over the sound of MASS EFFECT 3'S SUCKY RAINBOW

[GalacticWolf5]

Fallacies and wild speculation? I'm not the one here making sweeping assumptions and placing constraints on what is apparently possible in the Mass Effect Universe. You can't dissuade me because you are not a BioWare writer. Your entire argument is based on one codex entry, when we know the codex has been inaccurate and is intentionally incomplete. Sorry if I don't take your word for your understanding of "quantum variance" with respect to EDI's technology. We are talking about science fiction fantasy here...

 

The whole blue box thing in the codex is true, otherwise why would it even be in thecodex? It had to be tested and proved right.

 

Care to explain to me the science behind Synthesis? How exactly organic life force powers a Reaper? How Mass Relays function and what the purpose of the keepers are? You can't, because many of these questions do not have answers, and that's intentional. That's part of the mystery of the franchise.

 

Synthesis and the Reaper thing is pretty much space magic and the Mass Relays are half space magic I guess. The purpose of the Keepers is to maintain the Citadel and wait until the Reaper Vanguard sends them a signal telling them to open the Citadel relay, allowing the Reapers to start the harvest. Though the Protheans changed them and now they only live to maintain the Citadel.

 

 Nobody fully understands EDI's technology or the Geth. They are based heavily on reaper tech, and as a result cannot be explained purely by one line of codex when the inhabitants of the galaxy don't even understand reaper technology.

 

The way you're speaking is like you believe the Geth and EDI are ''made'' of Reaper technology. They're not. Geth only have a Reaper code inside them. And EDI was only partly designed by Reaper tech. They don't have that much Reaper ''tech'' inside them.

 

EDI does not feel anything. EDI was programmed with self-preservation in mind, much like the Geth, and they both individually bring this up in ME3. It's not until Legion uploads the reaper tech and EDI is unshackled and begins obtaining advice from Joker and Shepard that they start to understand that self-preservation isn't what life is purely about. Again you are confusing her programming with actual organic behavior. She is not an organic and she never was. She can attempt to emulate, but she will never fully comprehend what it means. That's the point of Synthesis, to give synthetics "understanding" that the organics have.

 

None of what you stated cannot be restored. Everything EDI does and every time she alters her programming is by doing tireless research or asking for advice. Nothing she did was ever truly "organic," as that would have only been possible with Synthesis. Again, this is why I don't buy the argument that the Geth and EDI can't be rebuilt. Of course they can. They lack understanding of organics and the complexities that go beyond simple logic and processing.

 

I'm not saying EDI truly feels emotions. I said that it was her programming from Cerberus that allowed her to imitate those emotions. Looking at Shepard, the crew and the people on the Citadel  is what helped her develop those organics feelings and behaviors, which she does not truly have but only imitate. I know she's not organic.

 

 

 

[Revan Reborn]

The whole blue box thing in the codex is true, otherwise why would it even be in thecodex? It had to be tested and proved right.

 

 

Synthesis and the Reaper thing is pretty much space magic and the Mass Relays are half space magic I guess. The purpose of the Keepers is to maintain the Citadel and wait until the Reaper Vanguard sends them a signal telling them to open the Citadel relay, allowing the Reapers to start the harvest. Though the Protheans changed them and now they only live to maintain the Citadel.

 

 

The way you're speaking is like you believe the Geth and EDI are ''made'' of Reaper technology. They're not. Geth only have a Reaper code inside them. And EDI was only partly designed by Reaper tech. They don't have that much Reaper ''tech'' inside them.

 

 

I'm not saying EDI truly feels emotions. I said that it was her programming from Cerberus that allowed her to imitate those emotions. Looking at Shepard, the crew and the people on the Citadel  is what helped her develop those organics feelings and behaviors, which she does not truly have but only imitate. I know she's not organic.

I'm saying the codex is "true" based on the information presented at the time. Would it be difficult to restore EDI and the Geth to their original states. Yes. Impossible? No, nothing is impossible. Especially in the Mass Effect Universe.

 

It's all space magic. That is one function of the keepers. What do they do behind the scenes that we don't see? This is the actual question I'm asking. We don't know. There is a lot that isn't explained, and much of it is intentional.

 

I'm stating reaper tech has significantly impacted what they are, and since it's space magic, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to recover their "personalities." Also, if we discount the reaper modifications, Geth are just simple AI built on a Consensus and EDI is a simple AI built for Cyber warfare. Recreating and replicating their original functions would not be a tough task.

 

The keyword is programming. She was programmed to do everything she did. Her "free will" was limited by her programming and she could only alter so much within those parameters. That's my point. She lacks the complexity and intricacies that go with being an organic, and the same applies to the Geth. Yet to continue to rely on one short codex entry as reason enough to show it's "impossible."

 

The entire story of Mass Effect is impossible and especially what Shepard did lol. Why is it so improbable that an AI, with significantly less complexity than an organic, could not be restored? The truth is you don't really have an answer, and neither does anyone else. I'll be curious to see if BioWare further explains this going forward with the next Mass Effect.

[GalacticWolf5]

Recreating an AI's functions is super easy, but it won't be the same AI as before, that's all I'm saying.

 

The keyword is programming. She was programmed to do everything she did. Her "free will" was limited by her programming and she could only alter so much within those parameters.

 

Indeed, but after ME2 she doesn't have those parameters anymore. She can indefinitely develop and adapt herself. She basically ''becomes an organic'' without really being an organic because she's a synthetic and synthetic don't have real organic emotions or behaviors, they only imitate them. She kind of gains that complexity that organics have, but she's a synthetic. I don't know if you understand what I mean by this? I'm not really good at describing my opinions.

 

The same applies to the Geth after they get the Reaper code, because they all become individuals like EDI.

[Revan Reborn]

Recreating an AI's functions is super easy, but it won't be the same AI as before, that's all I'm saying.

 

 

Indeed, but after ME2 she doesn't have those parameters anymore. She can indefinitely develop and adapt herself. She basically ''becomes an organic'' without really being an organic because she's a synthetic and synthetic don't have real organic emotions or behaviors, they only imitate them. She kind of gains that complexity that organics have, but she's a synthetic. I don't know if you understand what I mean by this? I'm not really good at describing my opinions.

 

The same applies to the Geth after they get the Reaper code, because they all become individuals like EDI.

To an extent, but you are over-exaggerating the potential of an unshackled AI. Much like an organic in this sense, she can only "self-improve" based on her own biases and preferences. She can't just make herself "better," but rather modifies and changes her existing programming in order to evoke new behaviors and perspectives. She is still limited by the fact that she is a machine. She still lacks understanding, which is why she asks Shepard and Joker so many questions to aid her in what she lacks.

 

At best you could say EDI resembles a small child in terms of her comprehension capabilities. She still is far from an organic, which again, is why Synthesis resolves the limitations of synthetics. She is still far from being independent or solely competent on her own without guidance. EDI was never really an "individual" as she was still mainly part of the Normandy. She used EVA's platform in order to broaden her perspective, but she was still far from being separate.

 

Legion actually did achieve true independence because of the reaper modifications to the geth software. They were no longer a Consensus or even limited by their programming based on quarian parameters. They in a sense "evolved" beyond their mechanical limitations. Even with this individuality, they are still far from being organics. I'm not sure how else I can describe this.

 

You seem to believe that synthetics achieved true understanding before Synthesis, which is not the case at all. Only through Synthesis can the synthetics then be almost organic in nature.

[GalacticWolf5]

It seems by now we're both saying the same thing but in different ways.

 

I don't believe synthetics achieve true understanding of organics before Synthesis, I'm just saying that they can imitate them to fit into society, like EDI does. She's a synthetic but she's clearly trying to fit with organics and to do so she asks Shepard and etc how organics act and why, which we see in ME3 in various conversations on the Normandy and the Citadel, and we can see that she sometimes questions things that organics do and Shepard tells her that's it's normal for them, so EDI makes a modification in her programming so she can act accordingly. I think that's a little more clear?