Imagine steering the Jackdaw from its cargo hold. Won't have the same feel.
AC4 is different though, because you actually saw both the player character, the ship and the destination. In space, all you see is the CIC. They'll have to implement some kind of visual clues. And flying within the Galaxy Map interface is just weird, seems like the captain is playing a video game in the CIC
They might make the ship to get close to planets or asteroid belts via Galaxy Map and then have the character to go out in some small vessel with first person interface and explore manually, though it may end up being a hassle.
I actually wouldn't mind having a smaller vessel to actually navigate a solar system while the Normandy-type ship would be used for jumping between solar systems around the galaxy. The more immersion and interactiveness we have with space exploration, the better. That is the one area ME has always lacked in severely in terms of the science fiction fantasy.
I actually wouldn't mind having a smaller vessel to actually navigate a solar system while the Normandy-type ship would be used for jumping between solar systems around the galaxy. The more immersion and interactiveness we have with space exploration, the better. That is the one area ME has always lacked in severely in terms of the science fiction fantasy.
I agree. This would be awesome. The problem though is that space is in reality so massive that it wouldn't work in a believable fashion. There has to be some map mechanic to make it more manageable, which would decrease the immersion.
How so? Plenty of space simulators have treated space exploration just fine. I had personal experience with JTL in SWG where you could make a jump to lightspeed to various systems and land on planets without issue. Ships were fast enough where you could move around the solar system quickly and of course MENext could have pirates, mercenaries, and other vessels out in space to keep things fresh and different. It would certainly be ambitious and something new for Mass Effect, but it's not like space exploration hasn't been done before and well. BioWare has a lot of games and material it could use to make a system that works for Mass Effect.
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I believe space is tricky, but that simple realization alone shouldn't mean BioWare should shy away from it. By far it's the weakest aspect of the Mass Effect games and if BioWare was to rectify this it could try be groundbreaking.
You first point isn't really true. I'd say 50% or not more of Mass Effect 2 alone is navigating the galaxy with your miniature Normandy scanning planets for resources and deploying probes. Why BioWare thought replacing the Mako with a terrible and boring mini-game is beyond me. I certainly would have preferred the broken mechanics of the Mako in ME1 any day. This is why I believe a better space experience is necessary. Space exploration has always played a major role in Mass Effect. I don't believe some realize how often they are actually exploring space.
Dead Space is a great series, but a cinematic of approaching a planet of rails would definitely get old fast. Why set the bar so low when BioWare could do so much more? BioWare clearly understands the importance of a ship and its crew. That should be one of the aspects I believe the new game, or a future one, should focus on revamping and truly making it more than just a glorified house. When I think of great sci-fi franchises, I am instantly reminded of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon or James T. Kirk and the USS Enterprise. If I can't even explore space in a way that is compelling and interesting, that science fiction fantasy is seriously lacking.
The problem with space is that it is "boring" from a video game perspective. It's too vast and too empty to make flying in it interesting for a gamer. Same thing is with the ocean. Notice how AC4 dealt with it - they just put a huge amount of ships there, you can't travel a minute without seeing some ship. Having something like this in space will take away from the game IMO.
The way I understand the rules of ME universe, ships travel within systems using 'conventional' FTL drives. I don't see how they can implement it in the game alongside traditional exploration mechanics. The only way I can see it working is if our ship travels from one fixed location to another and we get some limited exploration capabilities at that location. Like in Dead Space 3
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Your first two sentences alone merely tell me you've never played a space simulator. Feel free to look at videos of Jump to Lightspeed from Star Wars Galaxies (released ten years ago) or more recently Star Citizen today. You can even look at No Man's Sky, which is currently in development. On the contrary, there are many games (old and new) that have done incredible space exploration and many in the game community would vehemently disagree with you. Space is "too vast and too empty"? My friend, you have never experienced what true space exploration is in a game then.
AC IV was merely an example of how a large ship could work as a major element of the game. Again, look to JTL or Star Citizen to understand how this would apply in space exploration. Dead Space is a great series, but it's not about space exploration. It's a survival-horror turned into an action third person shooter. Unlike in Dead Space, you are on the Normandy a lot in Mass Effect, if not for most of your time playing the game. I don't want another boring mini-game of clicking on a UI or watching a miniature Normandy avoid reapers or scan planets for resources hours on end... That is far worse than any space mechanics BioWare could add. You cannot honestly tell me you enjoyed scanning planets and deploying probes. One of the worst features I have seen in a video game.
Space exploration isn't "boring" and it certainly can be done and has been done. Bringing back the Mako from ME1 is a fantastic idea and hopefully we'll never see that hideous planet scanning mini-game ever again. However, space exploration in Mass Effect needs a massive do-over and there are plenty of games Mass Effect could take inspiration from to get it to work. It's not impossible and really it's not difficult either. Those are merely excuses to not do it. This will ultimately come down to what BioWare believes truly needs to change in Mass Effect going forward.
Your first two sentences alone merely tell me you've never played a space simulator. Feel free to look at videos of Jump to Lightspeed from Star Wars Galaxies (released ten years ago) or more recently Star Citizen today. You can even look at No Man's Sky, which is currently in development. On the contrary, there are many games (old and new) that have done incredible space exploration and many in the game community would vehemently disagree with you. Space is "too vast and too empty"? My friend, you have never experienced what true space exploration is in a game then.
AC IV was merely an example of how a large ship could work as a major element of the game. Again, look to JTL or Star Citizen to understand how this would apply in space exploration. Dead Space is a great series, but it's not about space exploration. It's a survival-horror turned into an action third person shooter. Unlike in Dead Space, you are on the Normandy a lot in Mass Effect, if not for most of your time playing the game. I don't want another boring mini-game of clicking on a UI or watching a miniature Normandy avoid reapers or scan planets for resources hours on end... That is far worse than any space mechanics BioWare could add. You cannot honestly tell me you enjoyed scanning planets and deploying probes. One of the worst features I have seen in a video game.
Space exploration isn't "boring" and it certainly can be done and has been done. Bringing back the Mako from ME1 is a fantastic idea and hopefully we'll never see that hideous planet scanning mini-game ever again. However, space exploration in Mass Effect needs a massive do-over and there are plenty of games Mass Effect could take inspiration from to get it to work. It's not impossible and really it's not difficult either. Those are merely excuses to not do it. This will ultimately come down to what BioWare believes truly needs to change in Mass Effect going forward.
You're right, I've never played a space simulator (due to in part of every one of them seeming to make the space small. Star Citizen is the only one that stands out but I'm yet to see how it works, when they release it). Jump to Lightspeed videos don't tell me much about it, for all I see, traveling from a planet to planet takes place in lightspeed, no? The video I watched. Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are not yet released, we'll have to see how successful they are.
I played Microsoft Flight Simulator. It was fun, interesting, but also tedious. I can't see traveling from, say, Earth to Mars at slower than light speed and it not looking boring. And showing FTL speed visually is just wrong. I'm fine with exploration near planets or other locations, but I can't see exploring a system in a traditional "Fallout-style"
Well, I know someone beat me with the video, but I'll post the Image of the ME:Next Concept Map, nonetheless.
See, I want this to be true. Imagine the feels in walking in a Galaxy Map and doing THIS! Daaamn.
Also, I'm betting on Space Combat or Having More Control of your Ship/Shuttle in #Space, than just going to Systems/Clusters/Planets and Exploring there; We could even attempt to land a Shuttle or a Probe in an Asteroid 
PS: Don't even start about the Prothean 
I believe space is tricky, but that simple realization alone shouldn't mean BioWare should shy away from it.
Indeed and it will be a big task trying to make everything cohesive and coherent.
By far it's the weakest aspect of the Mass Effect games and if BioWare was to rectify this it could try be groundbreaking.
Agree.
You first point isn't really true. I'd say 50% or not more of Mass Effect 2 alone is navigating the galaxy with your miniature Normandy scanning planets for resources and deploying probes.
Ermm, keyword focused, because as you say below, everything around the space thing was cluncky at best.
Why BioWare thought replacing the Mako with a terrible and boring mini-game is beyond me. I certainly would have preferred the broken mechanics of the Mako in ME1 any day. This is why I believe a better space experience is necessary. Space exploration has always played a major role in Mass Effect. I don't believe some realize how often they are actually exploring space.
Agree.
Dead Space is a great series, but a cinematic of approaching a planet of rails would definitely get old fast.
Yep, sorry, the example was intended to point that what I think would be a good POV from where you could handle your ship, and the Timegate stuff a game mechanics (sectors -limited freedom-, the empty space per se -freedom-, linear travels -galaxy map- ...many ways to work on it).
It's a way of "throwing" ideas given that I don't have any context (related to the game) to work with, and I don't know how much work/emphasis they are going to put in every department.
Why set the bar so low when BioWare could do so much more? BioWare clearly understands the importance of a ship and its crew. That should be one of the aspects I believe the new game, or a future one, should focus on revamping and truly making it more than just a glorified house. When I think of great sci-fi franchises, I am instantly reminded of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon or James T. Kirk and the USS Enterprise. If I can't even explore space in a way that is compelling and interesting, that science fiction fantasy is seriously lacking.
Yep, and then, will you add space combat?... When I say tricky, I'm talking not only about implementation but resources/time in mind too.
Anyone know how many development time is planned? (fall 2015 ?).
Anyway I'm agree with you all, "more" and better only can be good 
You're right, I've never played a space simulator (due to in part of every one of them seeming to make the space small. Star Citizen is the only one that stands out but I'm yet to see how it works, when they release it). Jump to Lightspeed videos don't tell me much about it, for all I see, traveling from a planet to planet takes place in lightspeed, no? The video I watched. Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are not yet released, we'll have to see how successful they are.
I played Microsoft Flight Simulator. It was fun, interesting, but also tedious. I can't see traveling from, say, Earth to Mars at slower than light speed and it not looking boring. And showing FTL speed visually is just wrong. I'm fine with exploration near planets or other locations, but I can't see exploring a system in a traditional "Fallout-style"
What exactly would you like to see in terms of scale? In SWG, you would make a jump to lightspeed from planet to planet. There were various sectors that you could jump to but the entirety of the sector around the planet was rather large. Especially in some of the endgame zone such as Kessel and Deep Space, areas were vast and there were resources that could be mined from asteroids or you could participate in large battles with Star Destroyers and Mon Calamarian Cruisers. We also have to keep in mind JTL came out ten years ago, so technology and what is possible can go far beyond this.
I think there is a middle ground that can be met. Assuming there are any Mass Relays left, this would obviously allow for quick travel around the galaxy to various systems. As far as system exploration is concerned, I think exploration would be more interesting if it was built by the player. A way to not make it mundane would be for there to be various activities and dynamic events. Asteroids, as I pointed in SWG, could be mined for resources, which is a possibility. We may come across ships in duress or mercenaries causing havok. Instead of having the occasional mission on some planets that generally took ten minutes to complete, like ME2, just add opportunities in space while we are traveling between planets. Many of the foundations for these types of activities have already been hinted in previous games and were handled through load screens, cinematics, and side missions. Why not just make it a base feature for exploration? I find that kind of experience would be far more practical than BioWare trying to scatter as much content to obscure planets as they possibly can.
Well, I know someone beat me with the video, but I'll post the Image of the ME:Next Concept Map, nonetheless.
See, I want this to be true. Imagine the feels in walking in a Galaxy Map and doing THIS! Daaamn.
Also, I'm betting on Space Combat or Having More Control of your Ship/Shuttle in #Space, than just going to Systems/Clusters/Planets and Exploring there; We could even attempt to land a Shuttle or a Probe in an Asteroid
PS: Don't even start about the Prothean
Yeah I saw the teaser video of MENext at E3. I take it with a grain of salt as many of these features are just works-in-progress and we really don't know how things we'll end up.
Indeed and it will be a big task trying to make everything cohesive and coherent.
Agree.
Ermm, keyword focused, because as you say below, everything around the space thing was cluncky at best.
Agree.
Yep, sorry, the example was intended to point that what I think would be a good POV from where you could handle your ship, and the Timegate stuff a game mechanics (sectors -limited freedom-, the empty space per se -freedom-, linear travels -galaxy map- ...many ways to work on it).
It's a way of "throwing" ideas given that I don't have any context (related to the game) to work with, and I don't know how much work/emphasis they are going to put in every department.
Yep, and then, will you add space combat?... When I say tricky, I'm talking not only about implementation but resources/time in mind too.
Anyone know how many development time is planned? (fall 2015 ?).
Anyway I'm agree with you all, "more" and better only can be good
I'll be surprised if MENext releases fall of next year. I won't expect it until early 2016 at best. This isn't a game BioWare is going to rush, and from the sounds of it MENext may be vastly larger than DAI. It's really up to BioWare to decide what kind of experiences they want to tell and where they want to take ME next. I just hope they do something about the uninspiring space exploration at some point. It really feels more like a chore rather than something I actually enjoy doing and take pleasure from.
Well, that's what I said in my post.
The only way I can see it working is if our ship travels from one fixed location to another and we get some limited exploration capabilities at that location. Like in Dead Space 3
That's essentially SWG system the way you describe it.
Well, that's what I said in my post.
That's essentially SWG system the way you describe it.
It's worth noting that SWG was forced to due this due to limitations of technology ten years ago. Space exploration doesn't have to be confined to the immediate planet now, and certainly games are going away from that and doing something much more ambitious. Whether we look at the thousands of procedurally-generated planets in No Man's Sky that you can seamlessly land on or the large and massive galaxy of Star Citizen with hundreds if not thousands of places to explore with your various ships. Standards have changed substantially and SWG was just an example that space exploration has been done and very well for a long time.
It's worth noting that SWG was forced to due this due to limitations of technology ten years ago. Space exploration doesn't have to be confined to the immediate planet now, and certainly games are going away from that and doing something much more ambitious. Whether we look at the thousands of procedurally-generated planets in No Man's Sky that you can seamlessly land on or the large and massive galaxy of Star Citizen with hundreds if not thousands of places to explore with your various ships. Standards have changed substantially and SWG was just an example that space exploration has been done and very well for a long time.
Well, we'll have to see how Star CItizen and No Man's Sky turn out, no? I'd prefer Bioware not taking gambles like that, especially since it's the first time they're using Frostbite engine.
It's also worth a note that space exploration is the main focus of those games. I would not want Bioware going that way, their strong points always were the characters and stories.
I'm not opposed to getting something like Star Citizen 
I just think that if their resources don't allow that, they better focus their efforts elsewhere, like on story and characters.
It's worth noting that SWG was forced to due this due to limitations of technology ten years ago. Space exploration doesn't have to be confined to the immediate planet now, and certainly games are going away from that and doing something much more ambitious. Whether we look at the thousands of procedurally-generated planets in No Man's Sky that you can seamlessly land on or the large and massive galaxy of Star Citizen with hundreds if not thousands of places to explore with your various ships. Standards have changed substantially and SWG was just an example that space exploration has been done and very well for a long time.
The problem with something like No Man's Sky is that it's so immensely removed from reality. One thing that I have always liked about ME (especially the first game) is taht it has tried to keep relatively close to science. Yes, there's a lot that doesn't make sense when you think about it, but at least it has felt like a fairly plausible world.
In order to keep that sense of plausibility they can't do something like No Man's Sky where there are a bunch of different planets within sight as soon as you leave the atmosphere. That scale is all wrong. Other planets should only be tiny dots far away that a player might miss, thinking it's just another star. It would be very very difficult to navigate a realistic star system.
Even in the asteroid belt of our solar system the asteroids are tens of thousands of kilometers apart from each other.
Well, we'll have to see how Star CItizen and No Man's Sky turn out, no? I'd prefer Bioware not taking gambles like that, especially since it's the first time they're using Frostbite engine.
It's also worth a note that space exploration is the main focus of those games. I would not want Bioware going that way, their strong points always were the characters and stories.
I'm not opposed to getting something like Star Citizen
It goes without question that story and characters will always be the main pillars of a BioWare RPG. I'm just merely suggesting ways of improving systems in Mass Effect that are severely lacking and could use an overhaul. It's true that Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are definitely more so space simulators than Mass Effect, but they both also have ground experiences as well just like Mass Effect. This is just merely an idea that BioWare could potentially consider for the future. I don't particularly have a lot of problems with BioWare's execution of Mass Effect in the past. I just feel space exploration has always been one of the franchise's poorest features, and I attribute that mainly due to technological limitations.
The problem with something like No Man's Sky is that it's so immensely removed from reality. One thing that I have always liked about ME (especially the first game) is taht it has tried to keep relatively close to science. Yes, there's a lot that doesn't make sense when you think about it, but at least it has felt like a fairly plausible world.
In order to keep that sense of plausibility they can't do something like No Man's Sky where there are a bunch of different planets within sight as soon as you leave the atmosphere. That scale is all wrong. Other planets should only be tiny dots far away that a player might miss, thinking it's just another star. It would be very very difficult to navigate a realistic star system.
Even in the asteroid belt of our solar system the asteroids are tens of thousands of kilometers apart from each other.
I don't believe I ever suggested that BioWare should copy No Man's Sky. I was just merely pointing out that there are examples of games that are space simulators and they treat space exploration exceptionally well. I think there is a happy medium to be found. We can avoid the long travel periods that @Vazgen is concerned about while avoiding the clustered solar systems that you are worried about. It's a process of trial and error, and whatever BioWare does I don't expect it to be perfect on their first attempt. I'm glad the Mako is making a return, but I'm still fairly certain it will still have issues in some regard. I would expect the same for any new system that is a total revamp of what has come before.
That's part of how great games become iconic, however. If these games aren't ambitious, and truly push what is possible and what we can imagine, then these studios are doing us a disservice. That's why I'm able to appreciate studios like BGS, CDPR, Rockstar, Irrational, etc. They have big ideas and are extremely ambitious in their execution. They aren't always perfect, but in many ways they set new standards for many games to follow. That's what BioWare needs to be. They shouldn't be following the coattails of others. BioWare should be leading the pack. This is just my personal interpretation of how BioWare could change space from a "thing" to a "place," as they already suggested during N7 Day they plan on changing how space functions in some capacity. We shall see.
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I think there is a middle ground that can be met. [...]
Agree, and related to it I think that a mix between linear travels (galaxy map) and an area around the destination could be feasible. Really it wouldn't be far from what we got previously in any Mass Effect, only would change the way to arrive to a system.
Instead of going directly to the new location, we would go to an area around the system (split in sectors?), or planet (a single area?).
In this way we could explore the area itself landing on a planet/asteroid, looking for minerals, hidden hubs, or even being ambush...
Just for fun, I've added some kind of UI (and a replica of Joker) to the Dead Space ship (I like the config of the cabin).
Agree, and related to it I think that a mix between linear travels (galaxy map) and an area around the destination could be feasible. Really it wouldn't be far from what we got previously in any Mass Effect, only would change the way to arrive to a system.
Instead of going directly to the new location, we would go to an area around the system (split in sectors?), or planet (a single area?).
In this way we could explore the area itself landing on a planet/asteroid, looking for minerals, hidden hubs, or even being ambush...
Just for fun, I've added some kind of UI (and a replica of Joker) to the Dead Space ship (I like the config of the cabin).
Very nice. What you are suggesting goes back to how SWG approached space exploration, and I would not be opposed to that personally. I still don't believe the idea of using the galaxy map for Mass Relays and manually piloting in solar systems is a bad idea either, as it ultimately comes down to the execution and what you fill to make that experience interesting. There are a lot of possibilities and I'm hoping BioWare is watching and listening.
It's also worth a note that space exploration is the main focus of those games. I would not want Bioware going that way, their strong points always were the characters and stories.
I think this is a major point. The question of how extensive space exploration should be is not necessarily a question of hardware limitation (after all, space is mainly empty, not much resources required for that). It's much more a question of game design. In a game like EVE Online or X, I am happy to fly around with my ship for hours because that's what these games are about. There are about journeying through space from point A to point B. Mass Effect was always more about what happens at points A and B, rather than the middle. Therefore, if you want to make a Mass Effect game, that stays true to it's roots, you have to concentrate the gameplay at these points.
I am not at all opposed to a spin-off which is a pure space sim in the ME universe but if that were to happen, it needs to be it's own game. If space exploration is added to a more "traditional" continuation of the series (as ME Next is apparently going to be), then space exploration has to be focused around points of interest.
I think this is a major point. The question of how extensive space exploration should be is not necessarily a question of hardware limitation (after all, space is mainly empty, not much resources required for that). It's much more a question of game design. In a game like EVE Online or X, I am happy to fly around with my ship for hours because that's what these games are about. There are about journeying through space from point A to point B. Mass Effect was always more about what happens at points A and B, rather than the middle. Therefore, if you want to make a Mass Effect game, that stays true to it's roots, you have to concentrate the gameplay at these points.
I am not at all opposed to a spin-off which is a pure space sim in the ME universe but if that were to happen, it needs to be it's own game. If space exploration is added to a more "traditional" continuation of the series (as ME Next is apparently going to be), then space exploration has to be focused around points of interest.
Any good game with space exploration is far from "empty." That's merely a poor space experience like Mass Effect already has. You would argue that the Normandy wasn't as integral as the rest of the experience? Who destroyed Sovereign? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Shepard. Who died at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 besides Shepard? Who traveled through the Omega 4 Relay and successfully escaped the destruction of the Collector base? Who led the charge of the galaxy against the Reapers?
To me, it's quite honestly ridiculous to not understand the importance of the Normandy, exploration, and how Mass Effect has always largely been a game about cruising the galaxy. It's largely underplayed because of the terrible space exploration mini-game and excessive uses of cinematics, but it's still very much an integral part of the Mass Effect experience. That really goes for any popular science fiction franchise. The ship matters a lot. The Normandy is just as important to the experience as Shepard is.
MENext is already far from being "traditional." In fact, BioWare has made it abundantly clear that "this isn't ME4" for a reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that Shepard isn't returning. It's because they are largely revamping and redefining what Mass Effect is for a new generation. The return of the Mako and the focus on planetary exploration is a major step in doing something that only ME1 really attempted. Mass Effect, historically, has always been a very linear experience with decent shooter mechanics, good story, and great characters.
What has always hurt the franchise has predominantly been the space exploration, the horrible planet scanning and resource probing mini-game, and poorly-done side quests that are littered on random planets. Thankfully it sounds like the return of the Mako will rectify planet scanning and probes from being an aspect of MENext. Resolving the issue of the galaxy map and a better way of presenting space travel (what BioWare shows in the cut scenes and load screens is how space exploration should work in-game). Again, we already know BioWare has something new planned for space. They recognize it has been handled poorly in the previous games. We'll see how ambitious and new in scope it is.
I'm not asking for a space simulator. I'm just asking for an actual experience where I'm exploring the galaxy with my crew, rather than avoiding reapers with a miniature Normandy.
I played Microsoft Flight Simulator. It was fun, interesting, but also tedious. I can't see traveling from, say, Earth to Mars at slower than light speed and it not looking boring. And showing FTL speed visually is just wrong. I'm fine with exploration near planets or other locations, but I can't see exploring a system in a traditional "Fallout-style"
Also, remember that you've only seen the Normandy in action. The most advanced warship the alliance military has. So, I can see spots where we can turn up the engines (or the time acceleration) to eleven.
Sounds like a lot of people here just want to play elite dangerous.
Personally my favourite galaxy map is me1's
Not at all. As I said before MENext doesn't need to be a space simulator and I don't want it to be. That being said, there are a lot of great systems MENext could use to bolster the poorly-executed space exploration of the previous games. I didn't like any of them, including ME1. In some ways ME1 was worse as it wouldn't tell you if you completely explored a solar system or not and some items were hidden in asteroid belts and the like making it difficult to know if you had everything. Is being able to have more control over the ship rather than sitting through load screens, cinematics, or a bad mini-game all the time so much to ask for?
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